Katier Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Hi All, Decided it's time for me to have a go at 3D printing but before I start putting well virtual pen to paper, I felt it prudent to get some advice. 1) Which design package is the best option. I have access to a Student (well Staff for me ) edition of any of the Autodesk options. Have installed Blender and obviously sketchup is an option. I'm more than happy to work my way round any of them but as I'm starting afresh I need to know the best choice. I'm steering towards Blender but need backup for my choice. 2) I'm thinking of trying a NER coach first up which begs the question which one. I'm thinking a non-corridor type of which I have two plans. One is a design with a tumblehome and more details such as complex windows and beeding, the other is a simpler ( I'm guessing earlier) design which is of similar construction to the NER north tyneside EMU's with vertical sides and vertical match-boarding. The latter seems the easier one to design but my concern is how to get the matchboarding done - can I show up the matchboarding sufficiently with 3DPrinting? Thanks Kat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Hi, Katier. I don't know if you're aware of this design package but it looks promising. If you follow the various sub-links, you'll see there are tutorials available. http://www.123dapp.com/ The matchboarding issue is probably more dependent upon the material you choose to print in than anything else: some materials are really pretty coarse and don't show up detail well. I only print in Shapeways' Frosted Ultra Detail and have never had any cause for complaint BUT I know others have not been so lucky. The only downside is the expense. You'll need to take a look at the design guidelines for the materials available and see what the minimum values are for engraved detail, etc. This is for FUD: http://www.shapeways.com/materials/frosted-detail-design-guidelines We're all feeling our way here, all on a steep learning curve. Do keep us informed of how things go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 For me Kat, I can't see past Autodesk Inventor - apart from it's excellent 3D capabilities it has a (relatively) straightforward interface and with the ability to produce professional drawings from all your hard work. I don't have the 3D work done directly, but pass them on for someone else to do that, with no complaint so far... [Edit] I also use netfabb to check for problems in the STL files output from Inventor, but it rarely seems to find any problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Another vote for Autodesk Inventor here I use it at work and really love it. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 What is the benefit of using Inventor? For the purposes of 3D Printing what makes it more suitable, is it simply that that aspect of the program is easier to get into than programs like Blender? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I found that the pro tools, such as Inventor, are easier to use and get into. I looked at Blender when I first started and found that it was very much geared to 3D animation work and I just couldn't get to grips with the interface. Whilst I don't use Inventor itself, I use something very similar. Others manage to work well with Sketchup/Blender and have created some good stuff with it, so it's more a matter of you finding a package that you can work with, rather than one being better than another. Anything that can create an STL file is suitable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Kat, I'd say it's simply it's ease of use. Perhaps one good example (though clearly, much of that has to do with the difference in cost)! is the complexity involved in creating a simple radiused corner on a 3D model. In Google sketchup? it's a fairly complicated operation, in Inventor it's a simple button click, entering a value for the radius and selecting what corner/s to work on. I know I'm probably biased having come to it from the early versions of Autocad but it's ease of use once you've mastered the basics is liable to make you try and model everything just to see what it can do..... Others mileage may vary! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 Thanks Bob, Makes sense.. 7 gig of it is downloading as we type.. for me to play with when I get home from work!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 Getting slightly ahead of myself.. but if I do the matchboarded one first, what is the easiest way of doing the matchboarding ( in Inventor ) when the time comes? Obviously it's quite subtle detail so not sure on the best way to represent it, in a form that will (hopefully) show up in 3D printing... I was wondering if a backup plan might be to create a transfer for the lines - with the base colour showing through. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I would be inclined to go with whatever you can get that you can get local informal support for (i.e. someone to look over your shoulder and offer practical advise) I went with AutoCAD when I wanted to learn 2d for etching because that was the only local evening class available. I'm now trying (not very hard) to convert to Autodesk 123d because its like what I already know. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted December 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2012 I think Jon's advice is dead right. If you have someone you can call on for ideas/help/advice then that helps massively. I use Blender partly because that was what a friend uses and it works (well) for me (and him). Martin is right that Blender was developed from 3D animation software, but it still produces very good meshes for 3D printing and has some neat tools (like the find non-manifold edges tool etc). One of the guys from Shapeways was involved in the development of Blender so it is perhaps no suprise that it plays nicely with Shapeways. It does have a bit of steep learning curve and the UI isn't the most intuitive, but work through some of the tutorials and it is easy to get to grips with. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods_of_Revolution Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I'm with Mike, the best free package is Blender, there's also plenty of support on the Shapeways forum for it as well as a good general community surrounding it, providing plenty of help and tutorials. You can find it here: http://www.blender.org/ Personally I have used 3ds Max for getting on 5 years to create models to 3D Print, more recently, since I started working as a CAD Engineer at a marine engineering firm, I have been using Solid Edge from Siemens. Both are nice packages, but both are very expensive and really only for the professional or very keen amatuer. Blender works great, it's relatively easy to use and of course it's free, so for somebody starting out I can't think of a better package. As Mike says the learning curve is steep; it's best to do some general tutorials first (however boring they may be!) and then move on to building very simple objects, one of the main reasons people give up is because they try to jump in with something complex, are unable to get very far with it, become frustraited and give up. Patience is a must! You can do the all the complex details and window beading etc; make sure to use a material like Shapeways' "Frosted Ultra Detail" and read the material design rules on Shapeways' website before you start creating your model. VisCAM is a great piece of software for checking your model in .STL format and making sure it's thick enough to print etc, you can find it here: http://www.marcam.de...view.83.en.html Kindest Regards, Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I do all my work with OpenSCAD but thats a brilliant tool for programmers not for anyone else I suspect! FreeCAD may be worth a look Blender is designed for arty work rather than CAD. It's awesome for that and things like virtual sculpture but not great for 3D CAD type work IMHO. The biggest things I would suggest are - think about it as a 3D physical problem, an engineering problem - check the results with meshlab/netfabb especially while learning What do I mean by the former - well a lot of 3D tutorials and stuff is oriented towards games and things like computer train sims. The rules are different. A sim works if a scene is single sided, if it has small gaps and if its physically impossible To work in 3D print your object needs to be complete, it needs to be structurally sound and it needs to comply with the printing requirements. As a result instead of playing with vertices and surfaces you want to play with physical shapes - build a solid profile of the object, scoop out the inside etc. If you build seperate parts and join them make sure they overlap, think of it like a real world process of fusing things together and you'll avoid endless pain with gaps and under thickness joins. For matchboarding and fine coach detail I wouldn't bother with 3D print for surface work - even FUD is just not good enough IMHO. On the other hand WSF is cheap, strong and can be overlaid with etches, which is how I've done things like matchboarded Great Central coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 For matchboarding and fine coach detail I wouldn't bother with 3D print for surface work - even FUD is just not good enough IMHO. On the other hand WSF is cheap, strong and can be overlaid with etches, which is how I've done things like matchboarded Great Central coaches. Interesting thought and nice idea.. minor problem getting the etched done but then sounds like a fairly easy job for home etching as it would just be a rectangle cut to size. Regarding OPENSCad - well the first 18 years of me career were in IT, much of it programming.. so doesn't sound daunting.. I also agree with what you say about the differences.. ironically I've faced similar challenges when designing game levels.. some engines don't like 'holes' in the box so it used to be a challenge finding them!! Would WSF work with the beading? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Mmmm - just downloaded the 30-day trial of AI and given it a quick try, came up with a passable image of an "ex-Ford Palvan body in about 45mins - has definate possibilities for future projects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marbelup Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Regarding the matchboarding, I can suggest 2 ways to model this in 3D: 1. Draw a fine "box" to represent the groove between adjacent boards, then replicate this at the desired board spacing and subtract (boolean difference) the "grooves" from the body. 2. Draw a closed curve representing a cross-section of the side, complete with notches corresponding to the grooves in the matchboarding, then extrude this curve in the direction of the boards to create the coach side. I used a similar technique to create louvres. Whether or not either will reproduce satisfactorily will depending on the size of the resulting grooves compared to the available print resolution. I have found that 0.2 x 0.2 mm is a reasonable starting point for the groove dimensions, as that is what I have used to outline doors and similar, and it is visible in both Shapeways FUD and i.Materialise prime grey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Hey guys I'm looking into printing some 7mm on30 gauge flat wagons printed so I was wondering if anyone has any idea if a wood texture can be printed and be recognisable as wood texture? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Hey guys I'm looking into printing some 7mm on30 gauge flat wagons printed so I was wondering if anyone has any idea if a wood texture can be printed and be recognisable as wood texture? I wouldn't bother to try: Any texture you can add will be hugely overscale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I think really what I'm after is how do I distinguish the gap between timbers. Think of 9"x9" timber in rows next to each other in reality you can tell they are individual timbers, creating that in 3d could turn out as just 1 large block. Something like this is what I'd be looking http://bouldervalleymodels.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Wouldn't you just put a slight recess between the 'planks' on the deck? Something 0.1mm wide and 0.1mm deep would do it, subject to the material you're planning to use being able to cope with that kind of resolution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I think really what I'm after is how do I distinguish the gap between timbers. Sorry. I interpreted what you originally posted as a desire to include the grain texture. Wouldn't you just put a slight recess between the 'planks' on the deck? Something 0.1mm wide and 0.1mm deep would do it, subject to the material you're planning to use being able to cope with that kind of resolution. Pretty much. You could try making them deeper to improve the clarity of the printed detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Rich, sorry that was my poor explanation coupled with asking one question and expecting 2 answers, but thanks to you and Pugsley for claryifing what process to try. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Smith Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Dave, On my 2mm scale wagons I have produced plank gaps that are 0.15mm across the gap, and 0.2mm deep (into the side). Examples of how these came out can be seen in the thread : http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/55935-gwr-outside-framed-wagons/ All wagons printed in Shapeways FUD. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Planning on getting on with this over christmas. Been a hectic couple of weeks but have 10 days off, some of it at my parents, so have 'twiddling thumbs' time to waste Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Interesting thought and nice idea.. minor problem getting the etched done but then sounds like a fairly easy job for home etching as it would just be a rectangle cut to size. Regarding OPENSCad - well the first 18 years of me career were in IT, much of it programming.. so doesn't sound daunting.. I also agree with what you say about the differences.. ironically I've faced similar challenges when designing game levels.. some engines don't like 'holes' in the box so it used to be a challenge finding them!! Would WSF work with the beading? I don't think WSF or polished WSF would have a chance of replicating the beading. FUD just about but that has its own range of issues (cost, frosty surface look etc). I look forward to a material that has a smooth polished finished,fine detail and low price but still waiting 8) For matchboarding etch you may also be able to find sheets of suitable boarding sold for scratch building wooden buildings etc ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.