Motive power for Camden Shed

[millerhillboy]

Lovely Iain, I really like the variation in tones and colours across all the below footplate level. Often a single colour is used and whilst that does look OK its much better to my eye to have distinct variation both in colour and finish.

 

Cracking model that as well.

[92220]

OK so I did say to myself that I wouldn’t start any new loco projects until I’d completely cleared the bench of part-finished ones.

 

But this was too tempting.

 

 

You will know immediately what this is, I suspect.

 

A new-type Bachmann Jubilee, secondhand and not well cared for, and a damaged Hornby rebuilt Patriot body, will be mated to produce a decent Rebuilt Jubilee.  
 

There are issues with the wheel spacing on the Bachmann Jubilee but it’s barely noticeable to my eye if I’m honest, and as what Tony would describe as a layout loco, I think it will be ok.

 

Both bodies are to an extent modular 

 

 

The difference in the cab side sheets which is the most obvious difference between a Jubilee and a Patriot.  
 

 

First mating:

 

 

careful measurement to enable removal of the splashers from the Pat and filing to clear the metal Jubilee splashers:

 

 

The smokebox saddle on a Jubilee is different enough to a Pat that I wanted to try to recreate it.  The normal Jubilee has a narrower diameter smokebox than a rebuilt one.  Obviously.  But the saddle is closer to the right appearance.  Separating the components was a challenge and then careful filing was required.

 

 

now getting closer.  
 

 

But on the real thing, the rear frames were extended a little so, not having done that, the whole 2A boiler is a bit long.  Best solution is to trim about 1.5mm from the firebox 

 

 

Joining firebox and cab having measured, filed, measured, filed and checked:

 

 

 

Tidying up the splasher area with a sliver of plasticard inside which allows a tiny bit of filler to be applied accurately and then filed and sanded back.

 

 

Masking for painting and then lining - all this with all of the fittings etc separated makes the job so much easier.

 

 

 

And....

 

 

 

Should finish this by the time the Fox plates arrive.

 

Iain

 

 

 

 

[92220]

And the eagle-eyed will know why this was wrong:

 

 

Iain

[TerryD1471]

Unless you mean that it is still carrying the name "Drake", I can't see anything to fault it! Go on, give us a clue!

 

ATB

 

Terry

[farren]

Built using A Mainline body by chance. From normal viewing distance it looks fine. I’d name it and have both rebuilt jubilees. 

Edited June 2, 2020 by farren

[jukebox]

Not enough washout plugs? (should it be a row of 7?)

 

Scott

[leander22b]

Looks like it lost half a plug on the drivers side. Rivetted rather than welded tender?

[92220]

13 hours ago, TerryD1471 said:

Unless you mean that it is still carrying the name "Drake", I can't see anything to fault it! Go on, give us a clue!

 

ATB

 

Terry

hi Terry,
Yes the old nameplate will be history! Haven’t yet removed it as it may be a good support for the replacement.

 

10 hours ago, jukebox said:

Not enough washout plugs? (should it be a row of 7?)

 

Scott

well spotted, Scott - hope all well with you?

 

1 hour ago, leander22b said:

Looks like it lost half a plug on the drivers side. Rivetted rather than welded tender?

Good spot.  The washout plugs didn’t quite align from the Pat firebox because, as detailed above, I had to shorten the firebox rather than do what they did in the works which was to lengthen the frames.  So yes, 6.8 plugs roughly on this side, which is annoying but this is an RTR bash in 3 evenings.

 

The tender is the bigger problem, yet more easily solved.  I simply forgot which one was which.  Comet towed a rivetted tender and Phoenix a welded one.  I just went ahead and numbered it without checking.  So this is now 45735 Comet, which is a decent fit being a Camden loco at times even if I can’t recall when without going back to my books, and certainly a regular.  45736 Phoenix was also photographed there and who knows, maybe I’ll do that one too. This is a fairly fun conversion.
 

11 hours ago, farren said:

Built using A Mainline body by chance. From normal viewing distance it looks fine. I’d name it and have both rebuilt jubilees. 

 

hi Farren,

No, the recent Bachmann SFB Jub and a newish Hornby Rebuilt Pat boiler smokebox and firebox.  I think it’s close, at least.

hope all well with you?

 

Iain
 

Edited June 2, 2020 by 92220
Half finished reply posted

[Barry O]

Iaian,

 

looks fine to me - on the layout unless you park it right in front of you would you notice? Nope! (Unless you count spokes on bogie wheels that is!)

 

Not often you see the big Jubilees. I have various bits I could start on one but there are a load of other things to do on my "Roundtuit" pile. I am rebuilding a Model Loco Duchess.. as none of the ones depicted where ever Red it will be a green one..Duchess of Abercorn. I have several Hornby ones in various states of disassembly. They were being EMd for Carlisle but DJH or scratchbuilt ones work better. I now have to sell them on..but some have had an EM chassis fitted.. suppose I could use Comet spacers to return them to OO?

 

Keep up the modelling!

 

Baz

[leander22b]

Whatever the 'compromises' it looks superb. I'm envious of your skills.

[92220]

6 hours ago, Barry O said:

Iaian,

 

looks fine to me - on the layout unless you park it right in front of you would you notice? Nope! (Unless you count spokes on bogie wheels that is!)

 

Not often you see the big Jubilees. I have various bits I could start on one but there are a load of other things to do on my "Roundtuit" pile. I am rebuilding a Model Loco Duchess.. as none of the ones depicted where ever Red it will be a green one..Duchess of Abercorn. I have several Hornby ones in various states of disassembly. They were being EMd for Carlisle but DJH or scratchbuilt ones work better. I now have to sell them on..but some have had an EM chassis fitted.. suppose I could use Comet spacers to return them to OO?

 

Keep up the modelling!

 

Baz

Thanks Baz.  I think they are the correct Stanier bevel rim bogie wheels....... 
I do think the Hornby Coronations could be made to work well enough with a Comet chassis even for Carlisle, although I’m a definitely happy to accept that if Mike can’t get enough weight in, nobody can!   The one I’ve just built (well, when I say “just”, it did take a while with the move halting progress midway) weighs about 550g and will stroll away with 19 on including 6 full kits.  So while it takes a lot of faffing to get lead packed in, it could work.  
If you do OO them, I would imagine the frames could be reused with OO spacers if reassembled in a jig.  But I’ve never tried anything like that. 
 

2 hours ago, leander22b said:

Whatever the 'compromises' it looks superb. I'm envious of your skills.

 
Thank you, very kind.  Skills, such as they are, only developed through having a go and making a lot of mess and mistakes.  
If I’m honest, perhaps I just really enjoy trying to make things, and it’s particularly fun to make something good out of something not so good.  Or seeing where one component can provide the basis of a new model.

 

Iain

Edited June 3, 2020 by 92220

[Michael Edge]

Most of the Duchesses on Carlisle weigh about 650g but even so some will pull more than others.

[Buhar]

Hi Iain,

 

I do like your work on these ex-LMS locos.  I'm interested in your thinking on this conversion.  Why did you choose this route, rather than fitting the Jubilee cab to the Patriot boiler and footplate (with changes to the saddle of course)?  

 

Without wishing to distract you further, have you looked at whether the old LFB Jubilee can be married in some way with the new one.  When they released the new Jubilee, Bachmann did suggest they'd do the LFB variant but it hasn't happened.  The dome and top feed are further forward on the LFB so some sort of boiler/firebox swap is necessary but the firebox dimensions on the old model seem a bit out.

 

Alan

[92220]

18 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Most of the Duchesses on Carlisle weigh about 650g but even so some will pull more than others.

I remember you said that, Mike.  I know weight makes a difference but I guess different wheel materials, rigid versus sprung or compensated, bogie/trailing truck arrangements etc all make a difference too.  Not experienced enough to know, to be honest.  

46256 is 725g and thankfully can still spin its wheels.  I’ve not tested it for max haulage and I don’t know whether I will do so, but it was completely untroubled by the rake of 19.  The two Hornby/Comet/lead treated  ones (46245/46248) are 570g and 490g respectively and will be OK for me.  Carlisle is a different beast though, I know.
 

Your help and interest are always valued, thank you.

 

2 hours ago, Buhar said:

Hi Iain,

 

I do like your work on these ex-LMS locos.  I'm interested in your thinking on this conversion.  Why did you choose this route, rather than fitting the Jubilee cab to the Patriot boiler and footplate (with changes to the saddle of course)?  

 

Without wishing to distract you further, have you looked at whether the old LFB Jubilee can be married in some way with the new one.  When they released the new Jubilee, Bachmann did suggest they'd do the LFB variant but it hasn't happened.  The dome and top feed are further forward on the LFB so some sort of boiler/firebox swap is necessary but the firebox dimensions on the old model seem a bit out.

 

Alan

Hi Alan,

Good question.  I went for this option for a few reasons:

1.  It was how the real ones were built - ie Jub footplate, cylinders, frames, wheels bogie and cab, and 2A boiler.  Admittedly I didn’t think which firebox was used, but I assumed the 2A boiler had a bespoke firebox and the rebuilt Pat one was definitely closer than the SFB Jub.  The front end of the Jub was barely different to the rebuilt Pat so that could have been used ok.  

2.  The Bachmann Jub underpinnings fit the Jub footplate and have the fixings in place.  Maybe I could have chosen the Pat chassis and used the Pat footplate as you suggest but the Bachmann Jub driving wheels are a lot better than the Hornby Pat ones, plus the Hornby Pat mech is notoriously fragile. 
Bottom line I suppose was that I had these bits and thought why not? Maybe grafting the Jub cab onto the back end of the Pat everything else would have given the impression of a rear frame extension.  But anyway, it’s done now!

hope that helps,

 

Iain

 

[Michael Edge]

The Carlisle Duchesses are all rigid, just the bogies (all centre pivot - no rtr style arms)  lightly sprung so as not to take too much weight off the drivers. the trailing trucks just go along for the ride. Some have Ultrascale whells, some have Markits, the Ultrascale ones are definitely slippier, no Gibson wheels on the Duchesses but some of the Princesses have them.

[92220]

Thanks Mike.  Interesting that the Ultrascales are slippier.   I have a new set for a Duchess that came together with a kit - they do look very nice.

 

Will consider what to do with them, ie which one they will grace.
 

I use the same bogie and trailing truck arrangements as you, which is encouraging!

 

Iain

[Barry O]

Iain

I have a Black 5 which did have ultrascales.. it now has Romfords. SImilarly a Lima Class 20 with EM Ultrascales now operates on Gibson wheels,. I had problems with adhesion (both in acceleration as well as deceleration and gave up in the end!

 

Baz

[Michael Edge]

Gibson steel tyres are definitely better for adhesion.

[92220]

I meant to post this some time ago:

 

 

45735 Comet ready for weathering, lamps, coal and crew.   Like about 20 others tbh.  But I have an airbrush issue, or more specifically a compressor issue.  1.5-2 seconds depressing the trigger (dual action Premi Air) and it loses pressure from 40psi to about 3.

 

Comet will pull 14 which is absolutely plenty on test having had a little extra weight added.  While I prefer Comet or similar mechanisms underneath, this Bachmann chassis and those of the 9Fs are very capable and have good representations of the correct drivers.  Indeed I don’t think any manufacturer has produced a more accurate 9F driver.

 

Iain

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ianwales]

Hi Iain

 

I like how you produced Comet, just as an aside, how good/bad was the Mainline rebuilt Jubilee body?

 

Ian

[92220]

Thank you, Ian.

 

You can see about halfway down this post and the few following it what the old Rebuilt Jubilee was like:

 

I had another look at this one today actually.  The body is a lot better with the cab 2mm lower but the smokebox is a bit weedy and the tender is oddly small.

 

I might finish it as Phoenix one day with a welded tender and a full respray.  I need to do a bit to the chassis as it has Scot balance weights and sandpipes.  

 

Iain

 

 

 

[92220]

Waiting for a C&L delivery so that I can continue with constructing the mainlines on the layout, so with a couple of hours free today I had another look at the DJH Fairburn 4mt tank I had started a couple of months ago.

 

To be honest, this has been a somewhat frustrating kit. Now some of that frustration may be best attributed to my incompetence or at least lack of experience.  But it has mirrored the 2nd DJH Black 5 that I built.

 

Quite a lot of it didn’t fit all that well, and some parts were either missing, or bore no relation to drawings, photos or instructions.  The trailing bogie casting was only half formed but I can replace that with a Comet one.

I tried to build the loco with a set of Gibson drivers but I could not, for the life of me, get them set up properly.  So I reluctantly binned that idea and used the supplied Romfords.  But eventually, having battled with it to this stage, I am certainly in need of a bit of advice how to attach the cab roof sensibly.  It is touch and go whether the roof is exactly the right dimensions anyway, and I may to make some adjustments or scratchbuild a replacement.  But either way, I have read plenty about tank engine roofs being built to be detachable, or perhaps being glued on after painting.  I can’t see this one being glued effectively as there is no lip or overhang on any edge when offered up (hence maybe the roof is too small?).  I have read about clips and pieces of angle to enable the roof to be slid in or otherwise retained.  Can anyone offer me any guidance here?  
 

 

 

thanks in advance.

 

So, to ease the frustration I decided to build another Coronation.  I’m starting to lean towards Comet mechs under rtr bodies for the majority of my locos.  I can modify and  detail the rtr body reasonably in most cases, and the quality of the underlying detailing, painting and lining is generally going to be better than I can manage.  This one, however, will be a slight departure in that I will use a Hornby chassis.   It was originally under 46248 but in adding lead to the body and the chassis they became incompatible.  Yes, I know.  But it did force me to go the Comet route and I haven’t looked back.  I picked up a 46251 cheaply on eBay a few years ago, sold the chassis and so have the body and tender for about £23.  The plan is:

 

Full Comet additions to the loco - deflectors, rear frame extensions, bogie, trailing truck, cab floor, fall plate and doors, inside cylinder cover, sandboxes, smokebox door dart, plus new handrails and pillars.  Etched plates from 247.

The tender will have the side sheets thinned, the awful ledge removed, and a decent loco-tender (TW) coupling.

 

 

 

The next one, for the green lovers, will be 46239 on Comet frames.

 

Iain

[farren]

Hi Iain sorry to hear your troubles with the djh 4mt always thought they were supposed to be very good, though never got round to trying one myself. Would some thin wire soldered to the inside of the cab top give you the surface needed to glue the roof on after painting. Just a idea.

[46256]

Hello Iain I built the djh fairburn many moons ago. I remember I struggled with the cab roof best wishes Brian....love the Coronations

[Jamiel]

Hi Iain

I am far less experienced than you at loco building, but I have almost finished building a tank engine and had the same roof problem to solve. With advice from Lezz01 and Barry O, I took a couple of lengths from the edge of the etch to make corner clips.

I bent them to follow the cab roof profile, and then then bent the ends over to fit tightly to the inner of the cab. One front and one back, I sat them at the in the cab to hold them and tack soldered them to the roof. I then soldered in place properly, and also added a couple of strips between to make the clip roof light tight.

I then filed back the outer edges so that they clip in more easily, and to be back from any glazing I will add later. A couple of photos, the bottom one the cab roof needed pushing in a bit tighter, but it does so easily.

 

I am sure there are other methods, but this worked better than I was expecting. I did make it a tight fit.
 

Lovely builds, and really looking forward to seeing the new layout progress.

Jamie

Edited February 7, 2021 by Jamiel