Motive power for Camden Shed

[MacDuff999]

I find that a little hard to credit, in a way. I have a number of shots of Duchesses, often at Citadel involved in a loco change-over on such workings as the 'Royal' or 'Mid-Day' Scot trains, and I am sure that at least some of them are from 66A. I will check. I did have feeling though, that the Polmadie locos were not turned out in red. Thanks for the reply anyway.  

[LNER4479]

Wasn't the painting of Stanier pacifics red a LMR 'thing'? Whereas the 66A Duchesses were ScR ...

 

You are (MacDuff999) of course correct that the 66A Duchesses were equally used for the prestige daytime trains and loco changes at Carlisle as you describe were routine. In the summer - as I'm sure you're equally aware - the 'Royal Scot' worked right through without loco change (it stopped - briefly - alongside Upperby / Kingmoor for the crew change*) and this was the only diagrammed arrangement whereby a 66A Duchess would make it to London). My Dad trainspotted in the North London area and a Polmadie Duchess was always a prized sight - he did see them all though.

(*one depot for northbound; the other for southbound - I can't remember which way round without looking at my books!)

 

The point about sleeper workings is a valid one though in the sense that much of the work of the Duchesses was on the overnight sleeper trains (I would guess at least 50%, perhaps more) and therefore little photographed or recorded. We tend therefore to get a distorted view of history by only seeing pictures of them in the day time.

 

Below is a summary my Dad has written out for me recently based on his spotting notes from 1955 - he used to stay out late to observe the first sleeper workings out of Euston, especially to see the Duchesses. You can see how they dominate - and there is one 66A Duchess in there - he underlined it especially! Presumably it had got out of diagram - a regular occurrence - giving plenty of justification for 'Rule 1' on a layout.

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by LNER4479

[cb900f]

Plus I don't think that a shedmaster would have sufficient authority to dictate the livery of locos.

 

Pete

[46256]

Didn’t the LMR have to request painting some of their Pacific’s the non standard maroon ? I’m sure I’ve read this in at least one of the books I have on them...could look it up but I m sure will get a faster response here...my moniker , by  the way more of a nod to the Ivatt Pacific that bore his name rather than to the great man himself. It’s been said many times.but how heartbreaking are those photos by Jim Carter of the loco on Shed after the last run...

[LNER4479]

One of the great tragedies of the 1960s. Another year / 18 month's service and she (he!) would have survived. The only reason there's so many A4s in preservation is their use on the Glasgow-Aberdeens until 1966, by which time the preservation movement was beginning to get its act together. Thank goodness at least for Billy Butlin...

 

I used to visit Stanier house in Birmingham and gaze wistfully at the 'plate hung on the wall in reception. 

[92220]

I think I opined much the same on the very first post on this thread.   I would seriously struggle to think of a loco more deserving of preservation that wasn’t.  

 

That might of course turn into a barrage of possibilities and before we know it there are 2 Peterborough North threads. Hope that Camden could one day become as scenically “complete”, or indeed as impressive overall, as Gilbert’s Peterborough North. 

 

So anyway, back to commemorating Sir William, I have now accumulated the bits to build another.  It’s probably not too difficult to work out how I plan to do so, and it’s unlikely to happen all that soon, but the principle is, why not have two versions of the same loco on the roster but depicted in different condition?   I definitely ought to build more run-of-the-mill locos and these wouldn’t be duplicated, but for the odd special one I quite like the idea.  Obvious ones might include some that I’ve built already but know I can improve upon (46170, 71000, 46256, 44741)

Ive already over-represented the unusual ones but these are the most fun ones to build.   So rather than build both Ivatt Pacifics, I could build one twice, have just as much fun and only have one on scene at a time.

Just re-read that. The drugs are kicking in.....

 

Iain

[ikks]

I saw 6230 on Camden shed in the summer of '60 or '61, as well seeing 6227 heading south through Tamworth in'59 presumably heading to Euston, creating a fair bit of excitement on the "field".

 

Rgds.........Mike

[ikks]

On 15/02/2021 at 23:57, 92220 said:

Thanks.  No not yet.  I still have a Mike Edge aid-to-scratchbuilding one to build, and a Proscale one (which I understand is quite flawed but I haven’t worked out in what way yet).   I don’t have the castings for the chimney and dome to complement the excellent-looking Mike Edge etch, nor am I yet confident with cutting and shaped sheet brass for the firebox, boiler and smokebox.  I think most of the other fittings are available from Comet.  Maybe there is a Jack Sprat solution here.  Depends on whether the Proscale kit provides a decent chimney, dome, firebox, boiler and smokebox.

 

I can imagine there being a Comet framed Hornby one somewhere in my future perhaps, though!

 

Iain

Hi Iain, 

I remember reading this post a couple of months ago and it got me to raid my bits box and today I found my old Crownline Princess detailing kit which includes a nice turned brass chimney , a cast whitemetal dome and lots of other goodies which may help with the Proscale kit. I'm not sure how much they are to scale though.

If you are interested PM me your postal address and I'll shoot them off to you F.O.C.

 

Rgds..............Mike

[Barry O]

On 15/04/2021 at 09:31, LNER4479 said:

Wasn't the painting of Stanier pacifics red a LMR 'thing'? Whereas the 66A Duchesses were ScR ...

 

You are (MacDuff999) of course correct that the 66A Duchesses were equally used for the prestige daytime trains and loco changes at Carlisle as you describe were routine. In the summer - as I'm sure you're equally aware - the 'Royal Scot' worked right through without loco change (it stopped - briefly - alongside Upperby / Kingmoor for the crew change*) and this was the only diagrammed arrangement whereby a 66A Duchess would make it to London). My Dad trainspotted in the North London area and a Polmadie Duchess was always a prized sight - he did see them all though.

(*one depot for northbound; the other for southbound - I can't remember which way round without looking at my books!)

 

The point about sleeper workings is a valid one though in the sense that much of the work of the Duchesses was on the overnight sleeper trains (I would guess at least 50%, perhaps more) and therefore little photographed or recorded. We tend therefore to get a distorted view of history by only seeing pictures of them in the day time.

 

Below is a summary my Dad has written out for me recently based on his spotting notes from 1955 - he used to stay out late to observe the first sleeper workings out of Euston, especially to see the Duchesses. You can see how they dominate - and there is one 66A Duchess in there - he underlined it especially! Presumably it had got out of diagram - a regular occurrence - giving plenty of justification for 'Rule 1' on a layout.

 

Your Dad is a star!

 

Baz

[92220]

17 hours ago, ikks said:

Hi Iain, 

I remember reading this post a couple of months ago and it got me to raid my bits box and today I found my old Crownline Princess detailing kit which includes a nice turned brass chimney , a cast whitemetal dome and lots of other goodies which may help with the Proscale kit. I'm not sure how much they are to scale though.

If you are interested PM me your postal address and I'll shoot them off to you F.O.C.

 

Rgds..............Mike

That’s extremely kind Mike, thank you

will send you a PM

 

Iain 

[MacDuff999]

Just back-tracking a little, rather unfortunate proof of the 'Coronations' work on night sleepers was 'City of Glasgow's' role in the 1952 rail disaster at Harrow and Wealdstone. She was heading a late-running Perth-Euston night sleeper, when - unaccountably to this day - she overran red signals and ploughed into the rear of a Tring-Euston commuter train in the station platform. A couple of photos taken of the aftermath of this tragedy, appear earlier in this thread, I think.  

[MacDuff999]

I am having problems contacting Markits on the 'phone at the moment, which is a little unusual in my experience. I know the chap there can take some time to answer calls, but not as long as the ring-time I have experienced lately. Anyone know if there is a problem there? I have tried a couple of days, as I need to order bogie wheels and some of their brass fittings.    

[Corbs]

I have heard that Markits is dealing with a lot of production as during lockdown the supply of some fittings dried up and as a result a lot of Markits stuff sold out.

[92220]

Well they say you can never have too many Black 5s.  Someone did anyway.  Maybe it was Baz.   
 

I still haven’t quite decided on 44875 of 1A as it is, or 44870 which was also 1A Willesden and regularly seen at Euston.  So likely to pass the shed a lot but not use it much, if at all.  
 

Realised when I had taken these that I had forgotten to add the circular cylinder inspection covers and also the cover for the expansion link bearing or whatever it is.  Now added.  I also forgot to note down from photographic evidence whether it had steam heating fitted.  I have left off the AWS equipment and bang plate until I decide which one it will be, but otherwise it is ready to clean and paint.

 

 

 

As built - Hornby body on Comet frames, it ran smoothly but I doubt it would have won a tug of war with some rice pudding at 136g.

 

 

Judicious filling of the body cavity with lead gets it up a bit.

 

 

It will now pull the 9 coach test train on the main thread albeit with a little slip to start.  And, although I do say so myself, it runs really smoothly. 
 

These Hornby tenders look so much better to my eyes when the ledge is removed and replaced with the more prototypical-looking strengthening plates.

 

 

Iain

 

[5 C]

7 minutes ago, 92220 said:

These Hornby tenders look so much better to my eyes when the ledge is removed and replaced with the more prototypical-looking strengthening plates.

 

 

Iain

 

What is your ledge removal technique please? I've seen several people refer to it but I can't quite work out how it's done.

[92220]

I don’t seem to have taken many or indeed any decent pictures of this, and it’s the sort of thing better explained in pictures.

 

 

Basically, a new sharp Stanley knife blade.  Carefully and repeatedly score a line from above until the ledge is removed.  As memory  serves me, it is 4.5 mm in from the edge. There are some pips and ledges that are best removed to allow an accurate straight cut.

Take care to preserve the step shape, ie don’t score right along.   Clean and tidy up as necessary. 

 

Then reinstate a piece of plasticard using the tender top to locate so this piece sits on top of the tender base and inside the tender top.

 

I then cut 10 off 5mm sections of plastic strip, I think 0.010x0.125 trim the corners to a v shape.  These are stuck to the underside of the plasticard strip, one above each axlebox and one between each pair of axleboxes.

 

 

There, clear as mud.

 

I will do another one with pictures.  Sorry.

 

Iain

Edited April 22, 2021 by 92220
Found another photo

[Michael Edge]

All 5MTs had steam heating - if you don't see the hoses in photos it's because they were often taken off in summer, fitted again in winter.

[92220]

Thanks Mike, that’s what I thought in fact but someone earlier in the thread told me I needed to remove the steam heat pipes from 45027 as it was never fitted.  

l will add them to 44875/0

 

Hornby Stanier tender ledge removal.

 

Here is a better account with some photos.  I just pulled a Patriot tender out of the drawer where it has been in some queue or other for I don’t know how long.

 

As standard:

 

 

Dismantled

 

Measure the ledge so you know how much to cut off from the top:

 

 

Mark the step profiles:

 

 

Careful Stanley knife scoring:

 

 

 

You may notice I have also removed all of the extra pips, knobs and bars from the surface, except of course for the screw mounting holes.  Much easier to cut straight and cleanly.

 

2 strips of plastic 80mmx5mm

 

 

tbc.......

 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by 92220

[92220]

Add the plastic strips.  I spot weld them at each end first so they can be accurately repositioned inside the tender top, and only once happy, plastic weld the whole length:

 

 

 

 

Cut strips of .010x.125  and trim the corners.  Then fit as shown:

 

 

 

I also at this point rewire the tender pickups so they can be used with a homemade connector.  
 

 

Reassembled:

 

 

 

A bit better?  I think worth the work.  This took me about 50 mins in total.

 

Iain

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by 92220

[Barry O]

Iaian,

 

Tim Easter showed me how to do this st a Donnie Show. It is hard work but well worth it.

 

Baz

Edited April 23, 2021 by Barry O

[cb900f]

1 hour ago, 92220 said:

Thanks Mike, that’s what I thought in fact but someone earlier in the thread told me I needed to remove the steam heat pipes from 45027 as it was never fitted.  

l will add them to 44875/0

 

Hornby Stanier tender ledge removal.

 

Here is a better account with some photos.  I just pulled a Patriot tender out of the drawer where it has been in some queue or other for I don’t know how long.

 

As standard:

 

 

Dismantled

 

Measure the ledge so you know how much to cut off from the top:

 

 

Mark the step profiles:

 

 

Careful Stanley knife scoring:

 

 

 

You may notice I have also removed all of the extra pips, knobs and bars from the surface, except of course for the screw mounting holes.  Much easier to cut straight and cleanly.

 

2 strips of plastic 80mmx5mm

 

 

tbc.......

 

 

That will be me then. It was in a PM Iain and I did say front buffer beam.

According to A.J Powell in the book "Stanier locomotives"  Steam heat pipes were not fitted on the front buffer beam from 5020 - 5069 and 5075 - 5224. I cannot find in the book where it states that the steam heat pipes were fitted at a later stage. Having viewed a number of pics on the "Rail online" site  the pipes were not fitted in BR days either.

 

Pete

[92220]

1 hour ago, cb900f said:

That will be me then. It was in a PM Iain and I did say front buffer beam.

According to A.J Powell in the book "Stanier locomotives"  Steam heat pipes were not fitted on the front buffer beam from 5020 - 5069 and 5075 - 5224. I cannot find in the book where it states that the steam heat pipes were fitted at a later stage. Having viewed a number of pics on the "Rail online" site  the pipes were not fitted in BR days either.

 

Pete

ahh thanks Pete - that might (no it almost certainly does) mean I misinterpreted you, for which many apologies.  I can imagine all sorts of locos having steam heat but no pipe at the front.  I’ve certainly never fitted one to the front buffer beam of a model of a Coronation.

 

Iain

 

[5 C]

3 hours ago, 92220 said:

Add the plastic strips.  I spot weld them at each end first so they can be accurately repositioned inside the tender top, and only once happy, plastic weld the whole length:

 

 

 

 

Cut strips of .010x.125  and trim the corners.  Then fit as shown:

 

 

 

I also at this point rewire the tender pickups so they can be used with a homemade connector.  
 

 

Reassembled:

 

 

 

A bit better?  I think worth the work.  This took me about 50 mins in total.

 

Iain

 

Thank you so much for doing this. The various written explanations now make complete sense but I know if I'd followed my interpretation, I'd have made a complete mess of things. 50 minutes sounds very reasonable.

 

A picture is worth a thousand words.

[MacDuff999]

If I might raise another related topic, Iain. I have read through your thread with great interest. Among the number of Coronation pacific builds you have done, I cannot remember if you have built one with a Comet chassis and a Hornby Dublo metal body, as opposed to the more recently produced Hornby plastic bodied version. If so, how did you find it?        

[92220]

No, sorry I can’t help.

I haven’t used any Dublo bodies.  I know that Terry of Hest Bank fame has used them successfully.  
I must admit, I haven’t actually even examined one to see whether it is dimensionally or detail accurate, or consistent enough with the Hornby ones I have done.  So I really am less than useless in advising you.  
 

Iain