Motive power for Camden Shed

[MacDuff999]

Thanks for your prompt replies gents. I will order the correct scale wheels then Mike. No news on the 'Princess' etch at the moment I take it. 

 

Ian. 

[92220]

6 hours ago, MacDuff999 said:

Thanks for your prompt replies gents. I will order the correct scale wheels then Mike. No news on the 'Princess' etch at the moment I take it. 

 

Ian. 

27mm 6’9” wheels will fit,  but then the brake hangers won’t.  You will need to make some adjustments perhaps but not necessarily like I did:

 

(Scroll down the attached post)
 

Iain

Edited July 27, 2021 by 92220

[D.Platt]

Morning All

Looking at the Black 5 and the aws , where was the battery box on them , and the Jubilees  ?

Anybody know .

Dennis

[Michael Edge]

11 hours ago, 92220 said:

27mm 6’9” wheels will fit,  but then the brake hangers won’t.  You will need to make some adjustments perhaps but not necessarily like I did:

 

 

 

Agreed, I had to modify the DJH brakes a lot but they are about the worst designed brakes I've seen in a kit and really difficult to replace with something better.

[MacDuff999]

Gibson do some brakes with plastic blocks I think, so there is less risk of shorts. Don't know if they might make a difference? I will assess the possibilities when I get the wheels and try them on the chassis. 

[MikeParkin65]

8 minutes ago, MacDuff999 said:

Gibson do some brakes with plastic blocks I think, so there is less risk of shorts. Don't know if they might make a difference? I will assess the possibilities when I get the wheels and try them on the chassis. 

I know this is anathema to you kit builders but the Hornby baseplate for the RTR model has of course got plastic brake blocks and is available as a spare. You'd need 2 though as Hornby omit the leading brakes to accommodate the overscale pony wheels they use  

[92220]

1 hour ago, Michael Edge said:

Agreed, I had to modify the DJH brakes a lot but they are about the worst designed brakes I've seen in a kit and really difficult to replace with something better.

I’m glad it wasn’t just me who thought that!

I ended up effectively making new mountings using wire and drilled holes as I would have done had it been a Comet chassis.

 

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I know this is anathema to you kit builders but the Hornby baseplate for the RTR model has of course got plastic brake blocks and is available as a spare. You'd need 2 though as Hornby omit the leading brakes to accommodate the overscale pony wheels they use  

I can see that might be useful although how the two baseplates could be joined and attached while still enabling pickups to be fitted may be beyond my skills!

More likely to be helpful if building 46220- 46225 (or was it only up to 46224 I can’t remember….)  which had single brake shoes.  The rest had twin shoes.  The Hornby shoes are single only, even on the new model I think. 

 

1 hour ago, MacDuff999 said:

Gibson do some brakes with plastic blocks I think, so there is less risk of shorts. Don't know if they might make a difference? I will assess the possibilities when I get the wheels and try them on the chassis. 

I’m not sure whether the Gibson items are suitable, sorry.

 

I would recommend (from a baseline of far lower experience and competence than many contributors on this thread) that fashioning something out of metal and therefore maintaining single medium construction, is preferable. 
 

Iain

[92220]

3 hours ago, D.Platt said:

Morning All

Looking at the Black 5 and the aws , where was the battery box on them , and the Jubilees  ?

Anybody know .

Dennis

I can’t remember Dennis, sorry.

I know the large and small air tanks are on each side of the footplate, but I don’t recall adding a battery box to any of my Black Fives

 

Iain

[Michael Edge]

I think the battery box was under one of the seats in the cab - not sure which side though.

[MacDuff999]

Anyone have a particular recommendation in terms of  motor/gearbox for the DJH Duchess from their experience?  

[TerryD1471]

On 30/07/2021 at 17:17, MacDuff999 said:

Anyone have a particular recommendation in terms of  motor/gearbox for the DJH Duchess from their experience?  

I have been accused of being a speed merchant in the past, but I have a particular fondness for the D13 motor and 40:1 gear combination. I have 4 Duchesses with that set-up and not only has it proved quite powerful enough for hauling 14 kit built coaches but it does so at scale speeds well into the 3-figure mark. I have a couple of DJH Black 5s built recently, one of which has this combination also and the other has a Mashima can with a 36:1 gearbox. While the latter is creamy smooth, it is pretty slow compared to the D13 fitted one. I have a couple of Duchesses and a kitbuilt Royal Scot which also have the Mashima/gearbox combo and these too are not over quick, although they also are v. smooth.  Digging into my spares box I found an old Pittman and a KTM (Pittman replica) motor and these are fitted into (yet) two more Duchesses and driving through 30:1 Romford gears, they are superbly powerful and fast, but I doubt you can get these any more?

 

Hope this helps.

 

Terry

[MacDuff999]

That's really useful information Terry, thanks. On a related matter, I am in the early stages of building a DJH K90 kit - the Ivatt variant of the Stanier 'Coronation' design. I have just had to send an e-mail to DJH asking for clarification as to where on the chassis the pivot points are for the front bogie and rear pony truck, as neither the written instructions nor the exploded drawing - mainly page 5 - show it clearly. Nor where the body fixing screw (part 130 I think) attaches. If you have built a DJH 'Coronation' kit, perhaps you are able to answer these questions for me - just in case I can't get some timely assistance from the kit maker?  Grateful for some help, if you are able.

 

Ian.

[92220]

I’m fairly sure they are on the chassis spacers, Ian.  The cylindrical screw-in spacers have a nut soldered to them and you fix the bogie and trailing truck through the spacer into the soldered nut with a bolt.  The instructions say to fix the bolt through the spacer and then screw on a nut from underneath but as per TW I do the opposite.  I always use a Comet bogie mounting rather than the swinging arm provided.  There are a few photos in this thread somewhere I think.  
 

Motor and gearbox for a Coronation - I have used Mashima 1628 and 1626 with Comet GB3.  I still have a bit of a stockpile of Mashimas. I don’t know enough to say that this is a better combo than anything else but it works well enough. 

 

Iain

 

[MacDuff999]

Thanks for that information Iain. I did get a brief, but sufficiently clear reply from DJH, which enabled me to 'join up  the dots' as it were on the exploded assembly diagrams. I do tend to prefer - by virtue of what relatively little kit-building I have done to date - to screw bolts from below into nuts usually soldered to a suitably located spacer or part of the superstructure, rather than the other way round. Having followed the instructions now, in respect to the rear pony truck, I find the M2 bolt extends below the level of the rear driving wheel; the exploded diagram does indicate that you are supposed to cut it shorter, but am not sure of how this might be done without damaging the thread, to still enable you to remove the truck as necessary at some future date. I will need to rummage in my box of fixing bits, to see if I have any M2's which are a little shorter. 

 

Ian.

[cctransuk]

3 minutes ago, MacDuff999 said:

....the exploded diagram does indicate that you are supposed to cut it shorter, but am not sure of how this might be done without damaging the thread ....

 

 

Cut off the surplus length with the nut screwed onto the length which will remain in use.

 

Dress up the cut end of the screw with a file; then unscrew the nut, which will remove any remaining burrs, etc.

 

The screw will then go back into the nut without any problem at all.

 

CJI.

[MacDuff999]

Thanks very much for that useful tip.

 

Ian. 

[MacDuff999]

I am very conscious Iain , and contributors to the Camden Shed thread that I have to some degree hi-jacked the thread to solicit information and advice on particular aspects of loco building, especially of 'Coronation' class models. As I am again searching for advice on a related topic, I have started a new thread under the heading 'Up-grading Hornby-Dublo and Wrenn 'Duchesses', so as not to interfere any further with the core subject of Iain's excellent thread on his layout. Please feel free to access the thread gents, and offer suggested solutions, as I would welcome any advice on the best way to solve the issue which I currently need to fix. Thanks.

 

Ian.   

[MacDuff999]

Perhaps more relevant to this thread, could anyone who has built a DJH - perhaps specifically Ivatt version - 'Coronation', tell me where part 18 should go. It is described as tender top back support, and shown on diagram page 2, just forward of the tender back plate. The 'instructions' give no idea where exactly it should go, and merely say 'as shown'. As shown where? Should it be laminated to the tender back (although it is a W/M part), to support that and the extremity of the heavy top section, or soldered a little further forward, just behind the slots for the rear tender wheels, to give perhaps more balanced support to the W/M top casting? Advise please. 

 

Ian.  

[Michael Edge]

Inside the tender back I think doesn't it have holes in it where the steps peg through? I don't keep instructions, although I do occasionally look at them...

[92220]

5 hours ago, MacDuff999 said:

Perhaps more relevant to this thread, could anyone who has built a DJH - perhaps specifically Ivatt version - 'Coronation', tell me where part 18 should go. It is described as tender top back support, and shown on diagram page 2, just forward of the tender back plate. The 'instructions' give no idea where exactly it should go, and merely say 'as shown'. As shown where? Should it be laminated to the tender back (although it is a W/M part), to support that and the extremity of the heavy top section, or soldered a little further forward, just behind the slots for the rear tender wheels, to give perhaps more balanced support to the W/M top casting? Advise please. 

 

Ian.  

I will go and check my things maybe tomorrow but is it a flat rectangular white metal casting, with a large rectangular hole in the middle?

 

If so I am pretty sure I soldered it to the inside of the tender back.  The steps protrude through the etched back of the tender and into the big hole, and can be soldered from the inside.  
 

One thing I would say about the DJH Coronation tender is it weighs about as much as I do. So I hope you have a big motor in the loco!

 

Iain

[Mike 84C]

AWS battery box on Black 5's in cab, firemans side with a crappy piece of ply wood above it for the fireman to sit on.Been there done that lots of times.

[Brocp]

Any updates on your own projects Iain?

[92220]

8 hours ago, Brocp said:

Any updates on your own projects Iain?

I’ve not built any more locos lately - the last ones were 44875 and 46251 a couple of months ago.  However, I can see a few on the horizon:

46229 (DJH)

46238 (Hornby on Comet)

46250 (ditto)

46256 (another one……)

2 Princesses (haven’t worked out which locos yet, but I have a Mike Edge etch, a Proscale kit, a new Hornby bodyshell and tender, a set of Comet frames and sundry castings etc)

2 more Jinties, one Comet and one High Level under Bachmann bodies 

2 Jubilees - one will be a LFB variant although I haven’t sorted which locos yet

2 Rebuilt Patriots (Hornby on Comet)

At least 2 more Rebuilt Scots (46120 and 46127 for a start - Hornby on Comet)

An original Patriot (Bachmann on Comet)

At least another Black 5…..

 

I guess that says something!

 

But a fair bit of progress on the layout itself.  I’m just trying to get it all put together so that it doesn’t look a shambles in photos.  I will post something on the layout thread soon.  I have all 4 mainlines running well which is a huge milestone.  There is a bit more testing to do because I haven’t connected up the Down Empty Carriage line to the scissors on the down fast, but the mainlines themselves are smooth through the long formations.

 

To know that I can run long heavy  trains smoothly and reliably past the shed area means the whole concept can work.  
 

I’ve done almost all of the scenic diorama-with-a-bit-of-movement that is the goods yard approaches.  Inlaid track by the goods shed needs some more work and the checkrails added.  Then I will have all the setts to do……..

 

Hope all well with you.

 

Iain

[MacDuff999]

Thanks Mike/Iain. It is white metal casting, which looks as though it could be a 'landscape' format window frame with a central vertical strut, and sizeable apertures either side of it. I will try a dry run with it held close to the tender back, and see how well it supports the heavy top. Re the tender weight Iain, the loco will not be drawing trains of any great length, nor will it - on my relatively small layout - be required to travel a significant distance at high speed, so I can opt for a slightly smaller motor perhaps, than might normally be the preferred choice in other circumstances.

 

Ian. 

[Michael Edge]

Don't use a smaller motor, it still has to have enough power to easily spin the wheels. It's nothing to do with the job the loco has to do just that the motor has to be able to use the weight.