RMweb Gold farren Posted December 1, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2013 I think we will probably have many of the same classes I have decided of late to try and cut my modelling period down by 7 years to 1950-60 mainly to keep the costs down and sheer number of stock, cuts out the diesels. I would have done it more but you have to have some red princess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted December 1, 2013 Author Share Posted December 1, 2013 Hi farren, I'm sure you're right that we will be building/adapting many similar locos and comparing notes might benefit us both! I'm looking forward to being capable of building one of those Mike Edge Princesses - by far the best 4mm examples I've seen. Mulling over whether it's possible to adapt the Hornby chassis and then build a much more correct body, but by the time I manage that, I'd guess that at least one rtr example will have surfaced. I have some fairly standard ones to do - mainly 4-6-0's of various types. I ought to have a rebuilt Jubilee with the 2A boiler at some point too, and not yet certain how best to do that one. Tim's probably done 3 of them already! I've stuck to 1960-62 because that represents a crossover in time of various locos I'd like to include, and having built a load with AWS already, I didn't fancy removing all that detailing either. However, I will have the merest smattering of diesels, so distorting the reality at Camden at that time. But hey, it's my layout! And talking of which, I need to build that before I start grand ideas of a huge loco building run....... Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted December 1, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 1, 2013 No Camden Layout will be complete without 46245 City of London, one of my favourites. see:- http://www.qsl.net/g4nvb/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted December 2, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2013 (edited) I did think about doing the princess the using mikes chassis plus Hornby's body but after asking questions it would have been a lot of work to bring the body up to the chassis standards. i will be ordering one so i can build 46205, when they are available. any way a pro-scale royal came up on eBay for the right price and as kept me going for now. Have you looked at the old Bachmann jubilee with the 2A boiler as a starting point or is this a no hoper? I Know one maybe both did stayed at 16A Nottingham for a time so would have been seen at Leicester at some point. i think one is on eBay at the moment, as for it's your layout i can not agree with you more if I stayed with history then i would not have any 4-6-2's at all. 46245 is a great engine Edited December 2, 2013 by farren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 David - rest assured that, as one of the Coronations most regularly sighted at Camden, 46245 will be here! I was originally going to rename and renumber Leeds to London. 46240 was also a regular, but most of the class turned up at some point. farren - I think the Hornby Princess body is way beyond hope according to Tim's measurements, which I am sure are spot on. I was wondering more about the chassis, as I am more likely to get a body built than a fully functioning 4-6-2 chassis. The old Bachmann rebuilt Jubilee apparently has a load of shortcomings, but I've not investigated how bad they are, so that remains possible. The Hornby rebuilt Scot has a 2A boiler...... And then there is 46170 British Legion with the unique (?) 3A boiler. That was also a regular..... However, I'll leave all that for a while and try to get more of the layout done before I decide what to do on these more complex loco builds. Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted December 18, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2013 hi Iain I am slowly moving forward with the city of Salford and have hit a snag can you remember how the cab floor support go on the drawing from comet not to clear it as the sideward measurements which is fine but not how far set back they are as AWS B box, injectors have to go on in front of them also which way round do they go any way I? help would be most welcome. the British legion had the NO 2 boiler it being the first the NO 2a's went on the scots and pats. the 2 rebuilds jubilees I think where 2b's I see what you mean about the Hornby chassis know I am sorry I can't help with that one not owning one to take any measurements from I do have the book on them if you ever need any help in the future if ever needed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted December 20, 2013 Author Share Posted December 20, 2013 Hi Farren, Hopefully this pic will help: As you say, clearance is tight between the AWS box and the trailing truck. I added injector pipe work from copper wire. The trailing tuck itself needed a little fettling at the front to clear the Hornby chassis block. According to what I've read in several books, the rebuilt Scots and Patriots used the 2A boiler. The two rebuilt Jubilees, (4)5735 Comet and (4)5736 Phoenix, also used the 2A boiler. The boiler on (4)6170 British Legion was a type 2, you're right. 10 11/16" longer than the 2A. I may have to work out a way to make that from scratch, when the time comes... Iain 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted December 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2013 perfect thank you, so simple when you see it altogether. don't know why I did not make sense of the drawing before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted December 20, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2013 David - rest assured that, as one of the Coronations most regularly sighted at Camden, 46245 will be here! I was originally going to rename and renumber Leeds to London. 46240 was also a regular, but most of the class turned up at some point. That's good. I remember "cabbing" 46240 City of Coventry when she was a Royal train standby engine at 1E Bletchley in 1963. As you say most of the Duchesses were seen in London even Glasgow engines; Happy days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted December 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2013 That's good. I remember "cabbing" 46240 City of Coventry when she was a Royal train standby engine at 1E Bletchley in 1963. As you say most of the Duchesses were seen in London even Glasgow engines; Happy days. Like this beauty then. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froxfield2012 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) Hi Farren, Hopefully this pic will help: image.jpg As you say, clearance is tight between the AWS box and the trailing truck. I added injector pipe work from copper wire. The trailing tuck itself needed a little fettling at the front to clear the Hornby chassis block. According to what I've read in several books, the rebuilt Scots and Patriots used the 2A boiler. The two rebuilt Jubilees, (4)5735 Comet and (4)5736 Phoenix, also used the 2A boiler. The boiler on (4)6170 British Legion was a type 2, you're right. 10 11/16" longer than the 2A. I may have to work out a way to make that from scratch, when the time comes... Iain And here is a close up of the real thing at Camden in August 1956. An unedited negative with some flaws I am afraid. Also maybe pre AWS, did they move the pipework up? Richard Edited December 20, 2013 by Froxfield2012 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted December 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2013 lovely picture, any idea what the small casting on the front of the first tender roller box casting could be? might just be a oiler but the rest don't have them. and would any one have a close up pic of the right hand side just behind the smoke deflector in the early 50s their seems to be a lot of pipe work around there I think it's to do with the electric lights when fitted? and my I say sorry to Iain for taking over his thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted December 21, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2013 Like this beauty then. gallery_126_1705_37119.jpg WOW, she's a beaut.............. thanks for sharing. Do you know the date of the photograph? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froxfield2012 Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) lovely picture, any idea what the small casting on the front of the first tender roller box casting could be? might just be a oiler but the rest don't have them. and would any one have a close up pic of the right hand side just behind the smoke deflector in the early 50s their seems to be a lot of pipe work around there I think it's to do with the electric lights when fitted? and my I say sorry to Iain for taking over his thread. I'm afraid I have nothing of the right hand side, although it is clear from those pictures I do have that the ducting for the electric light heads off to the right hand side at running plate level. As can be seen below. By the way, what is the cable attached to the front bogie wheel? A second speedo cable?! In point of fact pretty much all the Camden pictures I have are of the left hand side. A function of the way the light falls in the shed, I would guess. Camden was always murky at the best of times. Richard Edited December 21, 2013 by Froxfield2012 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted December 21, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2013 WOW, she's a beaut.............. thanks for sharing. Do you know the date of the photograph? March 1964 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted December 21, 2013 Author Share Posted December 21, 2013 I'm afraid I have nothing of the right hand side, although it is clear from those pictures I do have that the ducting for the electric light heads off to the right hand side at running plate level. As can be seen below. By the way, what is the cable attached to the front bogie wheel? A second speedo cable?! In point of fact pretty much all the Camden pictures I have are of the left hand side. A function of the way the light falls in the shed, I would guess. Camden was always murky at the best of times. Richard Hi Richard, Wonderful pics as usual, thank you! I think it must have been harder to get to the NE side to take photos, and since almost all the locos would be facing NW unless they were snapped before turning, most pics will be lhs. The leading bogie wheel carried a speedo at some point in the late 50's, seemingly bracketed on the drain cocks? I don't have the exact dates. By the time I'm modelling, it had the speedo on the trailing driver. Farren - here is a pic of 46256 rhs showing the electric light cabling and generator etc. It is a tiny portion - less than 5% - of a beautiful shot on p. 98-99 of The Book of the Coronation Pacifics by Ian Sixsmith, showing 46256 at Camden in about 1950. The photo was originally taken from the Alec Swain/B.P. Hoper collection. I hope it's ok to post this. I'll remove it if not. Iain 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted December 21, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2013 two more wonderful pictures both of which shows just how much detail is omitted from the standard Hornby supper detail model thank you both for showing them. looks like i'll be having fun with trying to build the generator, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froxfield2012 Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Hi Richard, Wonderful pics as usual, thank you! I think it must have been harder to get to the NE side to take photos, and since almost all the locos would be facing NW unless they were snapped before turning, most pics will be lhs. The leading bogie wheel carried a speedo at some point in the late 50's, seemingly bracketed on the drain cocks? I don't have the exact dates. By the time I'm modelling, it had the speedo on the trailing driver. Farren - here is a pic of 46256 rhs showing the electric light cabling and generator etc. image.jpg It is a tiny portion - less than 5% - of a beautiful shot on p. 98-99 of The Book of the Coronation Pacifics by Ian Sixsmith, showing 46256 at Camden in about 1950. The photo was originally taken from the Alec Swain/B.P. Hoper collection. I hope it's ok to post this. I'll remove it if not. Iain Iain Interesting about the speedo. All these pictures of 46256 were taken on 8 August 1956, and as you can see from the shot below, there is clearly a speedo cable to the rear driving wheel at this time. Does this imply that when the position of the speedo cable was moved they just disconnected the original and left everything in place? And for how long I wonder? The detail is quite good on this shot if you can look past the two small boys! That's me on the left, aged nearly 9 and let loose in Camden. Happy days. Richard Richard 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) two more wonderful pictures both of which shows just how much detail is omitted from the standard Hornby supper detail model thank you both for showing them. looks like i'll be having fun with trying to build the generator, Can you imagine the cost of a RTR loco with this level of added detail? Then there would be those who would want the version with the missing rivet on the deflector, or any of the other minor variations a locomotive received over it's life. Edited December 21, 2013 by LNWRmodeller Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted December 21, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) Can you imagine the cost of a RTR loco with this level of added detail? Then there would be those who would want the version with the missing rivet on the deflector, or any of the other minor variations a locomotive received over it's life. It would give every one plenty to moan on about for weeks on the Hornby section of RMWEB Edited December 21, 2013 by farren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikks Posted December 27, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 27, 2013 No Camden Layout will be complete without 46245 City of London, one of my favourites. see:- http://www.qsl.net/g4nvb/ I saw this beauty on many occasions, but the most unusual was when she was piloted by Jubilee "Palestine" heading south at Tamworth in 1958/59?(only time I saw a double-headed semi), they were absolutely flying, one of the most incredible sights ever. Fortunately there were a few who recorded the Jube, most went for the semi (yes me too!!). Almost impossible to record them both when standing hard up against the railings in "the field".......Great Days Rgds........Mike 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted December 27, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 27, 2013 I saw this beauty on many occasions, but the most unusual was when she was piloted by Jubilee "Palestine" heading south at Tamworth in 1958/59?(only time I saw a double-headed semi), they were absolutely flying, one of the most incredible sights ever. Fortunately there were a few who recorded the Jube, most went for the semi (yes me too!!). Almost impossible to record them both when standing hard up against the railings in "the field".......Great Days Rgds........Mike Hi Mike, I never saw a Duchess with a pilot at Bletchley so you were very lucky! Great days indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 Spurred on by mark axlecounter's efforts at 44767, here is a bit about 44687, one of the Caprotti high running plate Black 5s. This one definitely visited or at least passed Camden in 1959. I did begin an account of this in a blog over 3 years ago now: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/653/entry-5089-caprotti-black-5-44687-hrp/ There is a fair bit of detail in there as to how I attempted this. The tender is a Comet part welded one with Ivatt vents and roller bearing axle boxes. I modified the inner Hornby chassis so that the Comet tender outer frames and body sit on that, which seemed to work pretty well - indeed I might try it for a few more Black 5 or other Stanier tenders. The difference from the flawed Hornby tender body is considerable. I did get around to painting and lining it, but no weathering, coal, lamps or crew yet. Iain 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Some pics here that may be useful, Iain. Scroll down the page. http://www.6g.nwrail.org.uk/caprotti5s.html 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
92220 Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 Yes, thanks Gordon, good reminder. That's a great site that I've perused before at length! Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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