The Glenfarg route

[beast66606]

Inverkeithing to Perth

 

From

Hours of Opening of Signal Boxes : 11 September 1961 UFN

 

['CHARD]

On 4th December 1968, one month before the Borders was to lose its rail link, Hansard records yet more turkeys setting out their stall in favour of Christmas.

 

Mr Michael Hutchison (Edinburgh South)

 

"The motorway is moving rather slowly. Has the Minister noticed that this proposed closure of the railway, the direct link between Edinburgh and Perth, would harm communications, particularly to the north? Will he use his good offices to see that the railway is kept open?"

 

Dr. Mahon:

 

"I know that British Rail intends to make formal publication of its proposal to close but the decision whether or not to close the line will be taken by the Minister subsequent to the hearing by the Scottish Transport Users Consultative Committee, and the views of the Tayside Study Group Committee and the Scottish Economic Planning Council will be taken into account.

... ...

I hope that we would have the motorway, including the southern part of the Perth bypass, completed by the early seventies, but I cannot be precise without due notice. I quite accept that we have to hear the case both for and against British Rail's proposal for closure, but a proposition that has been drawn to our attention, and rehearsed in this question, is that the line of the route might well use some of the railway track if permission for the closure is given, which I admit is an open question."

 

 

[pH]

'Chard - the government spokesman was Dr. J. Dickson Mabon - my MP at the time. (Just in case there's a Dr.Mahon feeling unhappy somewhere!)

['CHARD]

Build a new direct main line to exploit the briggers' toil and sacrifice.  Here's the Glenfarg route's raison d'etre:

 

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=41537

['CHARD]

'Chard - the government spokesman was Dr. J. Dickson Mabon - my MP at the time. (Just in case there's a Dr.Mahon feeling unhappy somewhere!)

 

Apologies - that was a direct quote from Hansard, so the transcription was awry!  Interesting how the spokesman (then MP for Greenock?) shares his surname with the figure from the Waverley's Last Stand, Rev Bryden Mabon.  Love the link (however tenuous) so thanks for the correction!

['CHARD]

Rumbling Bridge.  A  typical Fife and Kinross 101 DMU on the Stirling - Perth via Kinross service, towards the end:

 

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=41570

['CHARD]

Another Perth service on the Devon Valley on its way to Glenfarg:

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=32727

['CHARD]

Classic 'Farg: a personalised Black 5 leaving South Tunnel and crossing the viaduct.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kingfisher24/5748409148/

[keefer]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-22705610

[Waverley47708]

And here is link to original report with maps.

 

http://www.transformscotland.org.uk/GetFile.aspx?ItemId=669

 

From BBC reports it looks like the gov't have said no - shame it used to run past the bottom of my garden.

 

waverley47708

[JohnR]

I saw that too Keefer.

 

While I would love to see the route re-opened, I cant help but think that the M90 would inflate the costs by quite a bit - the article quotes a figure of £1bn, and its possible it could be as high as that.

 

Could that £1bn be spent on railways elsewhere in Scotland to greater effect - even reopening railways? Probably. The likes of Peterhead and St. Andrews are more likely to go ahead thank this one, I fear.

['CHARD]

"Whilst we appreciate that there has been some development along the route, we understand that it currently

remains largely intact and that replacement of the original route should be no more complex than that of the

Borders Railway;"

 

We 'understand' - who's led you to believe that?  I'm passionate about the Perth Direct, it's my 'second team' after the Waverley route, but to say it's 'largely intact' is naive beyond words.  The entire section through the glen is now obliterated by the motorway, plus the stretch descending to Bridge of Earn.  Huge swathes have returned to farmland and the land's natural contours, and several of the station sites are built upon.

 

Whilst I would love the Closerati's last colossal wrong to be righted, I fear that this is fanciful and sadly uninformed.  Shame.

[keefer]

it's all a bit unrealistic really

one of the biggest nails in the coffin for the railway was that using the actual trackbed through the 'difficult' bit for the motorway saved a humungous amount of money for the project.

the railway being closed added significantly to the feasibility of the motorway as the time/money/effort to engineer a route through the glen wasn't required.

 

now, if there wasn't really the will then to plough a new path through there for the road, i can't see there being much will now to do it for the railway

[JohnR]

If it's reducing journey times from Edinburgh to Perth (and beyond), the £1billion could probably be better spent on upgrading existing routes...

 

The report also has a go at spending many billions at building a high speed line to connect Glasgow and Edinburgh for a small reduction (~10 minutes) in jounrey time, instead of reducing times north of the central belt. Thats a fair point I think. High Speed Rail in Scotland shoud really be a Y shaped route from the border to Glasgow and Edinburgh, rather than something to connect cities 35 miles apart.

[keefer]

noticed another article in 'the courier'

 

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/perth-kinross/campaigner-backs-new-perth-rail-link-but-concerned-about-impact-on-fife-1.99467

 

to be honest, doesn't inspire much confidence in the STARLink if this is what she comes out with.....

 

the glenfarg line would indeed avoid the speed restrictions through b'island/kinghorn but only for trains to perth/further north

"would reduce traffic across the tay bridge" - perth trains don't go over the tay bridge anyway

concern about rerouting the ECML away from fife, NE fife in particular - Ms. Liston would seem to be under the impression that the glenfarg route would replace the present fife route to dundee and beyond!

[Waverley47708]

The story is back on the front pages of the Perth and Perthsire edition of Courier again today. Sorry I can not find a link at the moment to attach.

 

It claimes "Scottish Government officials have held talks with Transform Scotland regarding a feasibility study the latter carried out"

[Edwin_m]

 

"would reduce traffic across the tay bridge" - perth trains don't go over the tay bridge anyway

concern about rerouting the ECML away from fife, NE fife in particular - Ms. Liston would seem to be under the impression that the glenfarg route would replace the present fife route to dundee and beyond!

The summary linked by 47708 does refer to speeding up Aberdeen trains by diverting some onto this route from via Fife, which would potentially reduce usage of the Tay Bridge.  However I can't see that an Edinburgh-Aberdeen train would be noticeably quicker by this route, as it doesn't look much shorter.  There could also be capacity issues on the single line out of Perth towards Dundee. 

 

Another concern would be capacity out of Edinburgh.  Trains via all routes would still have to use the double track via the Forth Bridge, so there is a risk that diverting some trains via Glenfarg would reduce the fast service on the existing route. 

[keefer]

The story is back on the front pages of the Perth and Perthsire edition of Courier again today. Sorry I can not find a link at the moment to attach.

 

It claimes "Scottish Government officials have held talks with Transform Scotland regarding a feasibility study the latter carried out"

 

now showing on the 'courier' website:

 

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/perth-kinross/big-step-in-perth-bid-for-direct-line-to-edinburgh-1.105067

 

 

whilst steering clear of political discussion on RMWeb, it has been announced recently that the biggest 5 scottish transport projects already underway will cost £3.8bn to build and will cost double that over the next 30yrs - is there any more money to rebuild the glenfarg route which will be considerably more challenging than the reborn waverley route?

(as an aside E-G upgrade to cost almost double the borders railway!)

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22994682

[scottystitch]

Fish Traffic over the Glenfarg route

 

I wonder if anyone can help with information on fish traffic over this route?

 

The Blue Spot Fish Train

I have a Summer 1959 Working Timetable which shows the 12.30pm Aberdeen – King’s Cross Fish as calling at Perth from 2.25pm – 2.32pm (presumably arriving there via the Strathmore Route) then running non stop via Glenfarg to Edinburgh Waverley, arriving 4.01pm.  This was the famed “Blue Spot” fish train comprising roller bearing fitted fish vans and which, according to Steam Days October 2010, was inaugurated on 20^th February 1958.

 

I have a feeling that the routing via Perth might have been a result of the inauguration of through diagramming of locomotives on passenger trains between Edinburgh and Aberdeen which commenced with the Winter 1958/59 timetable.  Prior to this it had generally been the case that locomotives were changed at Dundee.

 

By 1963 this service was diesel hauled and had reverted to the coastal route from Aberdeen to Dundee and over the Tay Bridge to Edinburgh.

 

Does anyone have any indication as to how long this service ran via Perth?

 

“Bonnie Dundee” and Blue Spot Fish Vans

This is not the only Blue Spot working over this route for a number of photographs feature fish vans at the head of passenger trains, all of them strangely worked by Haymarket’s A1 No 60159 “Bonnie Dundee”.  References are as follows:

 

P.46 of “An Illustrated History of Tayside’s Railways” (WAC Smith & Paul Anderson. Irwell Press) shows 60159 ready to depart Perth with the 08:20 Inverness – Edinburgh on 28^th May 1960, the leading vehicle being a Blue Spot Fish Van.

 

P.31 of “Locomotives Illustrated 4 The Peppercorn Pacifics” shows 60159 at Inverkeithing Central Junction with a Perth – Edinburgh Waverley express in 1962.  The leading vehicle is once again a fish van.

 

P.23 of “Locomotives Illustrated 4 The Peppercorn Pacifics” shows 60159 on Glenfarg Bank with the 15:15 Perth – Edinburgh Waverley express in March 1962.  Once again the leading vehicle is a fish van.

 

P.53 of “Scotland’s Railways” (Keith Anderson & Brian Stephenson, Ian Allan) shows 60159, again on Glefarg Bank with the 15:15 Perth – Edinburgh Waverley express in March 1963, the leading vehicle once again being a Blue Spot fish van.  Initially, I thought this was a colour version of the previous photo but the 4^th coach in the previous photo is of Gresley design (a BCK?) whereas in this one it is a BR Standard BCK.

 

Finally, P.61 of G C O’ Hara’s “BR Steam in Scotland” shows a B1 arriving in Perth from the Dundee direction.  The caption draws attention to a couple of Insulfish vans awaiting loading with Tayside Salmon.

 

Does anyone know if the earlier workings could have been this Tayside Salmon being dispatched from Perth?

 

Wishing you all a Merry Christmas!!!!!

Is this definitely correct? My understanding was that freight was (and still is) banned from crossing the new Tay Bridge?

[Strathyre]

No, not banned although there are weight restrictions that apply to the slurry-type traffic that GBRf moves to Aberdeen that prohibits that particular train from crossing either the Forth or Tay bridge.

 

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imagesearch.php?textfield1=tay+bridge&exactfield1=&location1=location1&textfield2=&exactfield2=&location2=location2&textfield3=&exactfield3=&location3=location3&alloptions=&photographer=&daterange=ignore&sd=01&sm=01&sy=2014&ed=01&em=01&ey=2014&d=01&m=01&y=2014&d=01&m=01&orderby=publicon+desc%2C+recno+desc&Search=Search

 

 

Click on the link below and you'll find images of freights on the bridge, including a class 47 hauled fish train.  There may have been restrictions on certain classes of freight (for example unfitted class 9 trains) but I have not heard personally of this.

 

Paul

[sulzer27jd]

The restrictions on freight was a relatively recent phenomenon. The bridge used to handle extensive freight traffic. The only service currently scheduled is the Linkswood aviation fuel, but that will end with the closure of RAF Leuchars. 

[scottystitch]

Happy to be corrected, many thanks!

[keefer]

Another piece in 'the courier' today

 

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/perth-kinross/reopened-capital-rail-link-could-bring-many-benefits-for-perthshire-communities-says-msp-1.171838

 

as before says much of the route alignment still exists, although “A four-mile tunnelled section would be required to avoid the M90 and Glenfarg.”

 

Easy-peasy then, eh?

Edited January 3, 2014 by keefer

['CHARD]

Here's my take on how the job might be done cost effectively.  Some local knowledge of geography would be useful to follow this summary, augmented with Google Satellite and Old Maps.

 

The route is lost from Bridge of Earn Jct to Dron, at the point where the M90 turns south to climb over the hill.  Built-upon, ploughed into adjoining fields, and then under the motorway.  There's no prospect of a station on the old site, so if the New Perth Direct (NPD) was to branch south, east of the M90 crossing, this would futureproof a station option close to the motorway and  A912 intersection. 

 

The line has to climb steeply and may as well use the old alignment east of Dron for the trip under the hill.  To achieve this, the line would reverse curve south-southwest to meet the M90, then follow its southbound carriageway, regaining the old solum at the viaduct west of Pottiehill Wood.  Thence through the twin tunnels and across the River Farg and A996, until the M90 sweeps down from the west short of the village. 

 

From here to Glenfarg bank requires new alignment.  Four miles in tunnel is not only a scheme-blocker, it's also completely unnecessary.  Short term adjustment of the running lanes along this stretch would permit earthmoving equipment to work from the southbound carriageway as though undertaking a motorway widening scheme.  Instead of course, this would be to slot in a three mile length of single track main line.

 

Through Mawcarse, Milnathort and Kinross and on past Loch Leven and into Cowdenbeath there's nothing horrendous.  The A91 among others has been realigned, and several parts returned to natural contours with no trace left, but the big yellow machines currently at work on the Waverley route demonstrate how efficiently a few thousand cubic metres of fill can be moved about.  Moreover, when you use the future rail corridor as a haul road it's an environmental win-win.

[JohnR]

Intriguing, but how much would that cost? Reopening has been suggested at costing £1billion, and even if your scheme could save 25% thats still £750million - that could be better spent on other rail schemes.