Ventnor, Isle of Wight, 1970

[60526]

I don't know how many of you reading this are model railway club members but at times you have to marvel at the exploits of some of our senior members, as previously said the combined age of the two guys who have built this layout is about 180 years. The layout recently attended the East Grinstead show and I know some new photos were taken, I'll post the link or show them on here when I have more details, but here are a few of Wroxall. Unfortunately the last one is slightly out of focus but this was one of the last times that we used the old triang Suburban coaches, the loco is a Terrier.

[DLT]

Lovely modelling everyone, I've always had a soft spot for the Isle of Wight.  

Nick, what is the origin of the O2s on your layout?  Are they Finecast kits?

 

Somewhere I've got an old copy of Model Railway Constructor from the early 1960s I think, with a Ventnor feature in it including photos of a very nice looking layout.

 

Cheers,

Dave.

[60526]

Apologies if it has already been mentioned but Kernow have commissioned a brake van http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/page/76/DJ_Models_LSWR_Road_Van , look at C95 on the Cambrian site http://www.cambrianmodels.co.uk/srwagons.html, not sure what has happened to Smallbrook Studio though?

[Oldddudders]

not sure what has happened to Smallbrook Studio though?

Their website is live and they are advertising a new (O-16.5) product from 15th March, so I think they are in good health.

[DLT]

Somewhere I've got an old copy of Model Railway Constructor from the early 1960s I think, with a Ventnor feature in it including photos of a very nice looking layout.

Cheers,

Dave.

It was the March 1963 Model Railway Constructor, and an article entitled "Modelling Railways of The Isle of Wight - part 1"  It included two photos of "A model of Smallbrook Junction" which actually appears to be a scenic diorama rather than a layout, and one model photo of an O2 emerging from the tunnel at Ventnor, which may also be a diorama.  None of the modelling is credited.  I've not seen the other articles in the series.

Dave.

[bécasse]

It was the March 1963 Model Railway Constructor, and an article entitled "Modelling Railways of The Isle of Wight - part 1"  It included two photos of "A model of Smallbrook Junction" which actually appears to be a scenic diorama rather than a layout, and one model photo of an O2 emerging from the tunnel at Ventnor, which may also be a diorama.  None of the modelling is credited.  I've not seen the other articles in the series.

 

 

They were almost certainly created specially for photography so, more or less, what you can't see in the photo(s) isn't there. The Constructor did a lot of photography modules at that period.

[tangofoxtrotcharlie]

Hi, folks, I'm new to joining any forum so please excuse me if I inadvertently breach some etiquette.

 

It's great to see other models of the IW railway system.

 

I am building a loft based layout based on Ventnor, viewed from the caves side..  Please can any of you tell me whether the goods shed carried poster-boards on the platform side in BR days? My old slides aren't clear enough and I haven't been able to find anything on the net..

 

​Next project is the bracket signal and then the dreaded canopies!

 

Look forward to hearing from someone.

 

Best wishes, tfc

[Peter Bedding]

Hello TFC

 

Further to your question for detail, I have attached some more results of my own photo survey. They are a bit dark, but they do appear to show that there may not have been too much in the way of wall art on this inside wall.

 

I have seen other, and better photos online. The website is not immediately obvious, but if I can find it again, I shall post details.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hth

 

PB 

[tangofoxtrotcharlie]

Thanks, Peter.That is very helpful.  I haven't seen the goods shed from that angle before and I realise I didn't know about the window in the office facing the platform.  My carefully crafted model looks less and less authentic as I go on researching the next detail!  Still, as Cyril Freezer once said, 'Whose railway is it anyway?'

 

Given the amount of advertising carried on the station building and the lack of any mounts apparent on the goods shed, I suspect the walls were blank.  Can you imagine the effort involved in mounting even one poster frame using one of those old masonry chisels you had to hit with a hammer and twist?

 

On the 'whose railway' basis my layout is basically a largish but fictitious town junction on the Dorset/Somerset border, one of the services from which links, via an undefined route, to Ventnor!  Period 1950's -60's, pre-diesel but I'm waiting for one of the Kernow Bulieid  Desiels to appear.

 

All the best,

tfc

[60526]

Can anyone advise where to find an O2 drawing, I'm sure that Beattie must have produced one. Perhaps an IOW Beyer Peacock 2-4-0T?

Having had a chance to look further at the past Constructor articles -

Jan 63 - Wills introduced the 02 body kit for 39s 6d, the chassis kit came in July at 26s 6d.

Mar63 - IOW Pt1 plan view of the Ryde Pierhead - Smallbrook Jnc; to Newport and Cowes; to Shanklin and Ventnor. Quite a summer timetable, 4 to Ventnor and 1 to Cowes per hour.

Apr63 - IOW Pt2 buildings and signals, Wroxall passing loop and additional platform was added in 1925

May63 - IOW Pt3 locomotives, Southern took over in 1923, at the end of 1949 there were 23 02's, nameplates added 1929/30, from 1932 bunker extensions were added to O2's, cab roof vents added 1947-49 except 33/35/36, 4 E1's arrived in 1932. Ever heard of the Midget, I hadn't. It was a hand shunter used in Ryde works for moving wagons, coaches etc. Designed in 1931 from scrap components, required two operators who used two large wheels which look similar to those used on sailing boats, drive was via gearbox,

Jul63 - IOW Pt4 coaches, this edition also has drawings of 4 ex LBSCR coaches, a panelled 8 compartment, unpanelled 4 comp bk 2nd, u/p 7 comp bk 2nd and u/p 6 comp bk 2nd. IOW coaches seems a bit of a minefield, defective panelling would be replaced by flush steel sheets in the works.

Sep63 - IOW Pt5 freight vehicles. 

[Peter Bedding]

Can anyone advise where to find an O2 drawing, I'm sure that Beattie must have produced one. Perhaps an IOW Beyer Peacock 2-4-0T?

Having had a chance to look further at the past Constructor articles -

Jan 63 - Wills introduced the 02 body kit for 39s 6d, the chassis kit came in July at 26s 6d.

Mar63 - IOW Pt1 plan view of the Ryde Pierhead - Smallbrook Jnc; to Newport and Cowes; to Shanklin and Ventnor. Quite a summer timetable, 4 to Ventnor and 1 to Cowes per hour.

Apr63 - IOW Pt2 buildings and signals, Wroxall passing loop and additional platform was added in 1925

May63 - IOW Pt3 locomotives, Southern took over in 1923, at the end of 1949 there were 23 02's, nameplates added 1929/30, from 1932 bunker extensions were added to O2's, cab roof vents added 1947-49 except 33/35/36, 4 E1's arrived in 1932. Ever heard of the Midget, I hadn't. It was a hand shunter used in Ryde works for moving wagons, coaches etc. Designed in 1931 from scrap components, required two operators who used two large wheels which look similar to those used on sailing boats, drive was via gearbox,

Jul63 - IOW Pt4 coaches, this edition also has drawings of 4 ex LBSCR coaches, a panelled 8 compartment, unpanelled 4 comp bk 2nd, u/p 7 comp bk 2nd and u/p 6 comp bk 2nd. IOW coaches seems a bit of a minefield, defective panelling would be replaced by flush steel sheets in the works.

Sep63 - IOW Pt5 freight vehicles. 

 

Hello 60526

 

There is a reduced size copy of the Eastleigh GA in the Adams volume of the Bradley series. Failing that, there is a copy of the weight diagram in Russell's tome "Locos of the Southern Railway". Quite inexplicably, my copy of this latter work has gone walkabout. 

 

PB

[tangofoxtrotcharlie]

Thanks, Peter.That is very helpful.  I haven't seen the goods shed from that angle before and I realise I didn't know about the window in the office facing the platform.  My carefully crafted model looks less and less authentic as I go on researching the next detail!  Still, as Cyril Freezer once said, 'Whose railway is it anyway?'

 

Given the amount of advertising carried on the station building and the lack of any mounts apparent on the goods shed, I suspect the walls were blank.  Can you imagine the effort involved in mounting even one poster frame using one of those old masonry chisels you had to hit with a hammer and twist?

 

On the 'whose railway' basis my layout is basically a largish but fictitious town junction on the Dorset/Somerset border, one of the services from which links, via an undefined route, to Ventnor!  Period 1950's -60's, pre-diesel but I'm waiting for one of the Kernow Bulieid  Desiels to appear.

 

All the best,

tfc

Here is a Dropbox link to some of my Ventnor Photos showing the forecourt and platforms taken in their last year of operation https://www.dropbox.com/sh/891nm8566j58wve/AAA6GVwUV3_xqXO2CycjblJBa?dl=0

 

Hope they may be of some general use as they show the positions of the large sign sunder the canopy and give a general idea about the adverts.

 

All the best

 

tfc

[tangofoxtrotcharlie]

Can anyone advise where to find an O2 drawing, I'm sure that Beattie must have produced one. Perhaps an IOW Beyer Peacock 2-4-0T?

Having had a chance to look further at the past Constructor articles -

Jan 63 - Wills introduced the 02 body kit for 39s 6d, the chassis kit came in July at 26s 6d.

Mar63 - IOW Pt1 plan view of the Ryde Pierhead - Smallbrook Jnc; to Newport and Cowes; to Shanklin and Ventnor. Quite a summer timetable, 4 to Ventnor and 1 to Cowes per hour.

Apr63 - IOW Pt2 buildings and signals, Wroxall passing loop and additional platform was added in 1925

May63 - IOW Pt3 locomotives, Southern took over in 1923, at the end of 1949 there were 23 02's, nameplates added 1929/30, from 1932 bunker extensions were added to O2's, cab roof vents added 1947-49 except 33/35/36, 4 E1's arrived in 1932. Ever heard of the Midget, I hadn't. It was a hand shunter used in Ryde works for moving wagons, coaches etc. Designed in 1931 from scrap components, required two operators who used two large wheels which look similar to those used on sailing boats, drive was via gearbox,

Jul63 - IOW Pt4 coaches, this edition also has drawings of 4 ex LBSCR coaches, a panelled 8 compartment, unpanelled 4 comp bk 2nd, u/p 7 comp bk 2nd and u/p 6 comp bk 2nd. IOW coaches seems a bit of a minefield, defective panelling would be replaced by flush steel sheets in the works.

Sep63 - IOW Pt5 freight vehicles. 

Try 'A pictorial record of Southern Locomotives by J H Russell, Pub by BCA by arrangement with  Haynes Publishing 1991:  P351, side elevation of 'Sandown' (BP) with original boiler and P 359 GA drawing of IW O2 (Eastleigh drwg no SR22A) Also on P 358 GA Drawing of extended bunker Terrier

 

Best wishes

tfc

[DLT]

Can anyone advise where to find an O2 drawing, I'm sure that Beattie must have produced one. Perhaps an IOW Beyer Peacock 2-4-0T?

Having had a chance to look further at the past Constructor articles -

Jan 63 - Wills introduced the 02 body kit for 39s 6d, the chassis kit came in July at 26s 6d.

Mar63 - IOW Pt1 plan view of the Ryde Pierhead - Smallbrook Jnc; to Newport and Cowes; to Shanklin and Ventnor. Quite a summer timetable, 4 to Ventnor and 1 to Cowes per hour.

Apr63 - IOW Pt2 buildings and signals, Wroxall passing loop and additional platform was added in 1925

May63 - IOW Pt3 locomotives, Southern took over in 1923, at the end of 1949 there were 23 02's, nameplates added 1929/30, from 1932 bunker extensions were added to O2's, cab roof vents added 1947-49 except 33/35/36, 4 E1's arrived in 1932. Ever heard of the Midget, I hadn't. It was a hand shunter used in Ryde works for moving wagons, coaches etc. Designed in 1931 from scrap components, required two operators who used two large wheels which look similar to those used on sailing boats, drive was via gearbox,

Jul63 - IOW Pt4 coaches, this edition also has drawings of 4 ex LBSCR coaches, a panelled 8 compartment, unpanelled 4 comp bk 2nd, u/p 7 comp bk 2nd and u/p 6 comp bk 2nd. IOW coaches seems a bit of a minefield, defective panelling would be replaced by flush steel sheets in the works.

Sep63 - IOW Pt5 freight vehicles. 

Railway Modeller for July 1992 has a set of O2 drawings by Ian Beattie, showing mainland and IoW versions.  Accompanying it is a very brief article on building the Gibson kit in 0-gauge, credited to "RM Staff".

 

Railway Modeller for August 1968 has an aricle entitled "LSWR Push-Pull" in the long running series "W.Hardin Osborne's Sketchbook" featuring drawings of O2, M7 and C14 locos, and side-on photo of 30183 in full push-pull gear.

 

Of the two, I suggest the 1992 article will be the better.

 

Hope this helps,

Dave.

[Brake Compo]

In my view whether Beattie or Hardin-Osbourne is the more reliable drawing is a bit like being asked if one would prefer to be kicked in the left or right shin!  I have vidid memories of having the Beattie drawing as one of my sources when trying to turn the dreadful Loco Shed 7mm scale model of the I3 Class into something that had a vague resemblence to the real thing, before slinging it to one side as a piece of fiction.  (Interestingly the kit had several inaccurate features that appeared to me to have been copied from the Beattie RM drawing).  I would suggest that Peter Bedding's suggestion of Bradley is the best, or else spash out a little on a copy of the works drawing from the NRM.

[60526]

Apologies that this is a bit vague but does anyone have any details of a special magazine edition that has been produced by I think Model Rail to do with small layouts and has a few IOW ideas featured?  Thanks for the O2 references, I have not had a response from Golden Arrow on the IOW Beyer Peacock 2-4-0T so I assume that the kit is not currently available, but makes me wonder if the loco has been featured in an article somewhere. Looks like the Manchester Museum holds the Beyer Peacock archive so might be able to get hold of something from there?

[60526]

Well it's a Model Rail publication "Ideas for Layouts" and there is a thread elsewhere on here, 130 pages, £4.99. As the title implies it's ideas and for the IOW - Sandown, Bembridge (an interesting bit on a Noch sector plate), Ventnor West, Medina Wharf, Ryde Works, it's not just steam, there is also an article for motorising the EFE ex Underground stock. Not only for the novice but a piece on baseboard construction, how to make Ratio signals, painting and weathering. Not a bad read.

[60526]

Well the Newhaven Club version of the Ventnor and Wroxall stations appeared at the Bluebell railway model railway weekend and like last year we were in the loco works but in amongst the lathes and welding machines again.

Was told that the IOW O2 No24 which was due to visit the Bluebell later on this year will now be visiting which is a shame, apart from 70000 Britannia appearing the other loco mentioned was the Butterley class 5 73129, 73092 Camelot seems to be coming along so it should be good.

 

Just remember, apart the machining of the 12mm plywood turntable this fiddleyard was built by a 98 year old and a 80 something year old, it worked very well, perhaps the only observation was that the curves on the TT do not have to be so tight.

 

Just a side view of Wroxall with some of the machinery behind

 

Wroxall looking North

 

This is No16 coming south to Ventnor.

 

No 15, again at Wroxall

 

One of the Wroxall allotments, could you do this at 80+

 

[Donw]

The shop at Havenstreet sold a nice drawing of the O2 not sure what scale it was but easy enough to convert. I remember those articles in MRC and my father came home with an excursion ticket for a trip to the Isle of Wight for me. The trip was a real eyeopener.

Don

[60526]

This is No.16 with a Ryde train coming out of Ventnor tunnel. Now I got told off for sending trains bunker first down to Ventnor, this is of course wrong but it was the right way around in this photo. This loco had previously been damaged so leading up to the exhibition it's chassis was dismantled, twice, it's had a replacement gearbox, on the original one I found that the clearance between the worm and gear was too sloppy, I put the original w&g in the new gearbox and it was the same, with time running out it's ended up with a 2nd worm and 3rd gearwheel just to get it to mesh properly. Because the height of the original driving wheel centres were not correct it has ended up with a bit of a flexi chassis being pinned between the drivers. I tried to get some live axle wheels from Markits for the pony wheels but again through lack of time I've used the front bogies wheels off of either an Airfix or Mainline Scot or Patriot, they were the right diameter and number of spokes, also had the metal stub and plastic insert between the wheels so that I could use these with metal inside frames for pick-up, the idea was to get a loco where all the wheels sat down on the track and picked-up, it still needs some running in but it worked ok, could have done with a flywheel in hindsight.

 

Now if Ventnor station had been saved and was say part of the preserved IOW railway, what would Health & Safety make of the way for getting from the island platform over to the entrance?

[Gwiwer]

 

 

Now if Ventnor station had been saved and was say part of the preserved IOW railway, what would Health & Safety make of the way for getting from the island platform over to the entrance?

 

That happened at Fishguard Harbour too.  Probably other places as well.

 

I like to think that if Ventnor had been retained (as well all know in our hearts it should have been) that the tube stock used on the electrified line would simply do what tube does at all double-faced single tacks and open the doors both sides.  If you end up with a train on the "outer" and nothing in the middle road than in the absence of a loco run-round (not needed) there could be a fenced pathway off the end of that platform and around to the exit.

 

But I dream ..... the modelling is superb but I doubt I shall live to see another train running south from Shanklin of any kind.

[Trevellan]

Had Ventnor station remained open (as it should have, agreeing with Rick) it is highly likely to have been reduced to a single line stub, just as Shanklin is now.

 

In recent months I have driven past Old Station Road many times (ironically, in a Southern Vectis bus) and it makes me wonder how the station might look today. Perhaps half of the site given over to light industry, with the old station buildings replaced by something utilitarian and moved towards the eastern end fo the site to allow better road access? It could have worked.

[60526]

I posted back in April 2015 referencing the Goldon Arrow IOW Beyer-Peacock 2-4-0T, at the time Newhaven Club was thinking of going back in time with our Ventnor & Wroxall layout but because we couldn't get hold of any BP kits we decided to move forward to just post nationalisation. Well to put a spanner in the works, I was at Railex Aylesbury last Saturday and Golden Arrow was there and hey ho they had the full BP kit on their stand at £89 and another without the chassis for £69, so if anyone is interested you need to make contact www.goldenarrow.me.uk/. 13 Ryde lasted until 1932 and 16 Wroxall until 1933.

[BernardTPM]

I was intrigued by the abandoned Hillman Husky and Vauxhall Wyvern(?) over by the caves.

Definitely a Husky, but the other looks like the related Hillman Minx (1948-56 type).

 

Incidentally, a public enquiry held at Newport in the Summer of 1965 concluded that "A sound case had been made out by the objectors for the retention of the Ryde-Ventnor line", but the closure of Wroxall and Ventnor staions was still announed in January 1966.('Railways in the Wight' by C.J. Whittington, 2nd edition 1971).

[IWCR]

Retaining  the  Shanklin  Ventnor  line  would  have  been  desirable  but  the  decision  to  Electrify  put  paid  to  it.

A  fourth  sub  station  would  have  been  needed  somewhere  in  the  Wroxall  area  and  the  local  electrical  supply  was  not  up  to  supplying  this.  Funding  for  upgrading  the  grid  and  the  additional  substation  could  not  be  found.

 

Pete