Whats on your 2mm Work bench

[Donw]

I would agree with Nigel on this.  Sometimes you can offer such advice to someone who turns out to be really clever and can jump right in. But even so doing a simpler one first never hurts. Secondly I am a bit surprised by you converting the dimensions to 2mm. If you are planning to use the Dapol body it will be to 148 scale of commercial N rather than the 152 of true 2mm scale.  That also depends on what compromises Dapol may have made. Sometimes the wheelbase is adjusted to accomodate deeper flanges or the pivot points for bogies and pony trucks arranged to give more play.

You might find Tim Watson's  Workbench thread interesting  particularly the Lord President/Mons Meg build if you are planning to build a scale chassis for the A4.

 

Don

[Nick Mitchell]

My suggestion would be to build a good kit for something similar, and learn from someone else's tried and tested design-work / thinking in the scale.

In building my coal tank chassis from parts supplied in a shot-down etch, I copied the functional design from the Nigel Hunt radial tank kit I had recently built.

The usable bits of the etch were basically the main frames, and I guess I was in a position similar to where you will be drawing the frames and having them etched (or whatever you intend to do with your CAD drawing).

I copied the methods of frame spacing, radial tuck arrangement, gearing and body fixing, and ended up with a chassis I'm really pleased with.

I suppose this is a sort of half-way house between kit and scratch building, but building kits can teach you an awful lot you can apply elsewhere.

Nigel has a couple of LMS pacifics in his range. I have built the Princess Royal kit. It goes together beautifully, but is not a kit for the feint hearted (particularly when it comes to forming and fitting the etched taper boiler and wide Belpaire firebox)... I also have a Princess Coronation waiting it's turn to emerge from my gloat box. With a full set of castings (including whitemetal boiler) it is a more expensive yet much less daunting proposition. Although these are obviously not A4s, I suspect mechanically a lot of the way they are built would transfer easily.

[CF MRC]

A little bird tells me that there is a kit in the offing for replacing the Dapol A4/3 chassis. 

 

My first scratchbuilt engine was a single wheeler: no quartering to worry about, although it did have a crank axle.  Previously, I had done evil things to N gauge models converting them, learning a lot of soldering skills at the same time.  

 

Tim

Edited August 11, 2019 by CF MRC

[2mm Andy]

2 minutes ago, CF MRC said:

A little bird tells me that there is a kit in the offing for replacing the Dapol A4/3 chassis. 

 

Tim

 

I've also heard rumours of a 2mm scale A4 kit being developed by Bob Jones and others. Whether it will be offered for general sale I don't know, but no harm in asking.

 

Andy

[Robert_N-Nm]

 

 

After a bit of building we don’t only have a one point/switch we now have a mini diorama. Still need to hardwire some bits together so it actually runs properly but the track work has been done.

 

Kind regards,

Robert

 

[MarshLane]

Guys,

Thanks for all the comments. I appreciate that I'm jumping in at the deep end, but that comes partly from my father who always said if you need to learn do it and make then correct the mistakes!  So I blame him!  But I do take the comments on board, I've been looking at a lot things the past few weeks, and do have some experience in O gauge kits, although 2mm is a different kettle of fish!  But I'll more than happy for anyone to say "told you so!" if it all goes completely pair shaped

 

20 hours ago, Donw said:

I would agree with Nigel on this.  Sometimes you can offer such advice to someone who turns out to be really clever and can jump right in. But even so doing a simpler one first never hurts. Secondly I am a bit surprised by you converting the dimensions to 2mm. If you are planning to use the Dapol body it will be to 148 scale of commercial N rather than the 152 of true 2mm scale.  That also depends on what compromises Dapol may have made. Sometimes the wheelbase is adjusted to accomodate deeper flanges or the pivot points for bogies and pony trucks arranged to give more play.

You might find Tim Watson's  Workbench thread interesting  particularly the Lord President/Mons Meg build if you are planning to build a scale chassis for the A4.

 

Don

 

Don,

Thanks for the comments, that was actually the kind of thing I wanted, and with being new to 2mm, had totally forgotten that 2mm is a slightly different scale to N gauge.  I have been pondering why the length of my chassis (including the cartazzi truck which wasn't shown on the drawing) was shorter than the Dapol body by about 4mm.  Reading that, the penny dropped!   So back to the start and rework the measurements.  Its all lesson learning and I am enjoying (well at the moment anyway!) what I'm doing which is the whole aim of the hobby.  I have been following Tim's workbench on the P2 build, but I'll go have another look at it.

 

5 hours ago, 2mm Andy said:

I've also heard rumours of a 2mm scale A4 kit being developed by Bob Jones and others. Whether it will be offered for general sale I don't know, but no harm in asking.

Andy

 

Andy,

Thanks for that. I have been talking to Bob a little the past couple of weeks, not about A4s I have to add, but I'll ask the question.  Having started I may try and follow through to get some experience, with the designing and etching process, but if Bob is producing one, it will no doubt be far better than mine!

 

Rich

[Chris Higgs]

8 hours ago, CF MRC said:

A little bird tells me that there is a kit in the offing for replacing the Dapol A4/3 chassis. 

 

Tim

 

Yes, by me! I already have the etches for the bogie and a minimal set of coupling and connectiong rods to fit the Dapol chassis, valve gear artwork is done and test etch of the replacement frames (loco and tender) is about to go the etchers.

 

I have the motion parts and bogies for the Farish Merchant Navy and Duchess/Coronation Scot as well but I need to try out the chassis conversions before relasing them to the world. The trailing trucks for both remain a bit of a black hole.

 

The Dapol A3 does slightly increase the wheelbase in pursuit of making the wheels scale diameter (their normal approach as opposed to Farish who normally reduce the wheel diameter to maintain the wheelbase) and thus dictates their splasher spacing. But of course this is irrelevant to the A4 which has no splashers. The chassis is 90+% the same as for a Farish A1 which has a scale wheelbase. So I am slightly conflicted on the wheelbase. Catrazzi truck will most likely be 3D-printed with a hidden functional pony truck, as will the cylinders which have a shape not conducive to building from etch.

 

Still slightly struggling with the motion bracket though which hangs off the footplate on the real thing and so in mid air on an etched chassis. The same issue is preventing me tackling a B1.

 

As others have said though, an outside motion Pacific is really not the place to start your adventure in 2mm modelling. I'm not going to beat about the bush about it, I really would not go there. Or if you absolutely must, buy one of Nigel Hunt's Jubilee or Scot chassis, look at Nick Mitchell's video series and see whether you can assemble the valve gear on which he gives a very detailed tutorial.

 

If anyone fancies looking at the parts you might need to design a kit for an A3, this is an interesting starting point: http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/lner_a3_etches.htm

 

 

Chris

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Chris Higgs

[65179]

Chris, 

 

Would the Dave Bradwell approach (as shown on Mikemeg's thread) to the B1 bracket work in 2mm?

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/101015-mikemegs-workbench-building-locos-of-the-north-eastern-lner/&do=findComment&comment=3458738

 

The piece across the frames would need reinforcing with pcb and gapping.

 

Simon

 

[Chris Higgs]

2 hours ago, 65179 said:

Chris, 

 

Would the Dave Bradwell approach (as shown on Mikemeg's thread) to the B1 bracket work in 2mm?

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/101015-mikemegs-workbench-building-locos-of-the-north-eastern-lner/&do=findComment&comment=3458738

 

The piece across the frames would need reinforcing with pcb and gapping.

 

Simon

 

 

Possibly. But the way the inner motion bracket is attached by a small tab is going to be incredibly fiddly in 2mm.

 

Chris

 

[65179]

Add a temporary extension to both bits of the bracket rear with holes for wire in? You could then assemble it with two bits of wire threaded through both sides to hold everything in place and then snip/file/grind off the unnecessary bits.

[Guest WM183]

I've ordered a 42xx kit from Worsley Works, and look forward to receiving it. First build of a loco with outside cylinders, though thankfully valve gear is inside!

[justin1985]

On 11/08/2019 at 16:01, Chris Higgs said:

Yes, by me! I already have the etches for the bogie and a minimal set of coupling and connectiong rods to fit the Dapol chassis, valve gear artwork is done and test etch of the replacement frames (loco and tender) is about to go the etchers.

 

I have the motion parts and bogies for the Farish Merchant Navy and Duchess/Coronation Scot as well but I need to try out the chassis conversions before relasing them to the world. The trailing trucks for both remain a bit of a black hole.

 

The Dapol A3 does slightly increase the wheelbase in pursuit of making the wheels scale diameter (their normal approach as opposed to Farish who normally reduce the wheel diameter to maintain the wheelbase) and thus dictates their splasher spacing. But of course this is irrelevant to the A4 which has no splashers. The chassis is 90+% the same as for a Farish A1 which has a scale wheelbase. So I am slightly conflicted on the wheelbase. Catrazzi truck will most likely be 3D-printed with a hidden functional pony truck, as will the cylinders which have a shape not conducive to building from etch.

 

Still slightly struggling with the motion bracket though which hangs off the footplate on the real thing and so in mid air on an etched chassis. The same issue is preventing me tackling a B1.

 

Is there any chance you might also be tempted to tackle a Dapol B17, Chris? Another example of a nice body moulding, but a dog of a chassis with very flakey valve gear. No Catrazzi truck to worry about though!

[CF MRC]

If you can accept the Dapol wheels, Justin, this is one of the easiest chassis to turn down to FS standards.  The valve gear can be thinned down a bit and heavily weathered to hide it...  Performance transformed by fitting a Tramfabrik motor. 

 

Tim

[justin1985]

28 minutes ago, CF MRC said:

If you can accept the Dapol wheels, Justin, this is one of the easiest chassis to turn down to FS standards.  The valve gear can be thinned down a bit and heavily weathered to hide it...  Performance transformed by fitting a Tramfabrik motor. 

 

Tim

 

I remember you saying that you had a bit of grief getting the one on CF to run successfully though Tim? Or was that just down to the motor?

 

Obviously comparing with the other locos on CF is hardly a fair comparison for an RTR loco, but I can't help noticing that the B17 still seems one of the least successful runners on the layout - it always seems to have a quite pronounced "waddle" side to side, sometimes seems to contribute to derailments. Perhaps a product of the rather chunky UJ arrangements from the tender? Or from the slack in the valve gear?

 

My loco building skills clearly aren't up to it yet, but as a long term aim I'd love to convert a Dapol B17 into a proper B17/1 "Sandringham" - with small GER tender - rather than the "Footballer" types that Dapol have always produced it as with the larger group standard tender. 

[CF MRC]

It was the A3 that wouldn’t play ball, Justin. The B17 is relatively reliable and often used as an early engine on running the layout after storage.  A proper Sandringham would look nice. 

 

Tim

[TomE]

On 13/08/2019 at 13:36, justin1985 said:

 

I remember you saying that you had a bit of grief getting the one on CF to run successfully though Tim? Or was that just down to the motor?

 

Obviously comparing with the other locos on CF is hardly a fair comparison for an RTR loco, but I can't help noticing that the B17 still seems one of the least successful runners on the layout - it always seems to have a quite pronounced "waddle" side to side, sometimes seems to contribute to derailments. Perhaps a product of the rather chunky UJ arrangements from the tender? Or from the slack in the valve gear?

 

My loco building skills clearly aren't up to it yet, but as a long term aim I'd love to convert a Dapol B17 into a proper B17/1 "Sandringham" - with small GER tender - rather than the "Footballer" types that Dapol have always produced it as with the larger group standard tender. 

 

Hi Justin. 

 

Sounds a bit like my Dapol 9F. That was a complete dog of a runner until I ripped out the Dapol motor and replaced it with a Tramfabriek coreless motor and a little bit of stay alive. A lot of the hesitation, jerkiness and random wobble stopped after that, although that long rigid chassis still highlights every flaw in my trackwork... 

 

 

The 3D printed cradle that comes with the motor dropped straight into the 9F, but it wouldn’t be much of a problem for you to print a custom one if the B17 is different! 

 

This 9F is having a BR1F tender made for it, hence the lack of coal. 

 

Tom. 

[MarshLane]

10 hours ago, TomE said:

 

Hi Justin. 

 

Sounds a bit like my Dapol 9F. That was a complete dog of a runner until I ripped out the Dapol motor and replaced it with a Tramfabriek coreless motor and a little bit of stay alive. A lot of the hesitation, jerkiness and random wobble stopped after that, although that long rigid chassis still highlights every flaw in my trackwork... 

 

 

The 3D printed cradle that comes with the motor dropped straight into the 9F, but it wouldn’t be much of a problem for you to print a custom one if the B17 is different! 

 

This 9F is having a BR1F tender made for it, hence the lack of coal. 

 

Tom. 

 

These CCTV views of Alton yard, keeping an eye on the resident photographers are superb Nice job on the trackwork and scenery btw.

 

Rich

[Valentin]

A Stirling Class O tender:

 

 

 

Ignore the front beam overlay - it came of so many times during the construction, I won't tackle it until I finish all the soldering on the tender's body. Otherwise, I am very pleased with the model so far - as usual, the real thing looks better than it shows in the photographs.

 

The chassis is solid brass:

 

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by Valentin

[nick_bastable]

after I frustrating day stuck in road works on the A20 while some clever clogs also shut the M20 for the weekend  making a trip to Tenterden fun, the real  upside been as usual the visitors are 99.9% lovely.  The journey home involved shades of Dr Syn with a route across the marshes I was pleasantly surprised to be greeted by this on my return to  sanity

 

wow although it will await Jerry or some other clever bu$$er working out how to convert as I would love to retain the DCC part as I feel a sound version beckons

 

NIck

Edited December 23, 2019 by nick_bastable

[Izzy]

I would tend to think that a simple conversion via showing the wheels a lathe as per my Jinty/4F thread might be the initial way forward, along with replacing the coupling rods of course. Can’t see any need to remove/replace the next18 socket.

 

The only real drawbacks I can foresee is the clearance behind the front steps, ( it may be much more than is apparent in photos and quite enough if the wheels can’t be thinned much), and the extra care required to keep them true, popping them off the axles/plastic bushes then on again, the drivers no longer having the extra length/thickness around the axles added to the previous incarnations castings for the split-axle bushes/collection to assist in keeping them wobble free.

 

Izzy

[Lacathedrale]

I was really convinced that I'd end up sending back my C-class given the preceding discussion around comparative difficulties/etc. and having done a whole lot of nothing in the hobby for the last few months, but got it on the layout for a little photo shoot with the birdcage stock and damn, it looks good:

 

 

Gigantic coupling rods and N-gauge wheels aside, that is

 

[nick_bastable]

indeed it is and a bl00dy shame it has not followed previous Farish releases

 

Nick

[bcnPete]

On 19/08/2019 at 20:22, Lacathedrale said:

 

Gigantic coupling rods and N-gauge wheels aside, that is 

 

 

Lose that front rapido and it will look even better...

[Nig H]

Just off the workbench really after Princess Arthur was serviced in readiness for a trip to the Aberdeen show in October. 40439 is also going and has been tweaked to improve the running. I added extra 'Simpson springing' to the 2P to improve pickup. I'm looking forward to seeing these in action.

 

 

 

 

Nig H

[queensquare]

They look gorgeous Nigel, I really like the Princess's.

 

Jerry