RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Sithlord75 said: Almost off the workbench after tonight’s effort is these pair - ex SDJR 10t road van (3D print drawn by @nebnoswalnow in what we think is the most likely LMS livery Tricky one. What's your evidence? The body is practically identical to the Midland's own D382 tariff vans of 1898 and D365 banana vans of 1905, though the S&DJR road vans came first, in 1896. (They were rated 8 tons as built; Bixley et al., Southern Wagons Vol. 1 say a couple are known to have been upgraded to 10 tons, but presumably these were ones that went to the LSWR in 1914.) Have you photos of either of the Midland types in LMS livery? (And who is "we" here?) Edited April 8, 2021 by Compound2632 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithlord75 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 6 hours ago, Gareth Collier said: I can't locate the photo I have but I based my ones on the missing photo. 4 hours ago, richbrummitt said: I’m sure that is how I lettered one. I confess I didn't go looking for a GE one - I merely replaced the N for a G using the picture in Tatlow's "A Pictorial Record of LNER Wagons". A Google following on from these posts showed a photo of a model - which makes me wonder if the models of the model are going around in circles. If the GE did put their letters on the same side as the door, then they'd appear to be the only company who did - all the other pictures of cattle wagons in the Large Letter period had letters on both sides of the door. I'll leave it be for now - it isn't a problem to have to change if needed. Cheers Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithlord75 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Compound2632 said: Tricky one. What's your evidence? The body is practically identical to the Midland's own D382 tariff vans of 1898 and D365 banana vans of 1905, though the S&DJR road vans came first, in 1896. (They were rated 8 tons as built; Bixley et al., Southern Wagons Vol. 1 say a couple are known to have been upgraded to 10 tons, but presumably these were ones that went to the LSWR in 1914.) Have you photos of either of the Midland types in LMS livery? (And who is "we" here?) The "we" here is Ben and I - he the designer, me the builder. We were discussing it last night before I did it. And no, we have no photos to go off hence the guess. I figure someone will either produce a photo or there’ll be a lot of huffing and puffing, sucking of teeth and humming and hawring with nothing to prove me wrong! Edited April 9, 2021 by Sithlord75 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GER_Jon Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 8 hours ago, Sithlord75 said: The "we" here is Ben and I - he the designer, me the builder. We were discussing it last night before I did it. And no, we have no photos to go off hence the guess. I figure someone will either produce a photo or there’ll be a lot of huffing and puffing, sucking of teeth and humming and hawring with nothing to prove me wrong! Hi Kevin The second series of Tatlow - LNER Wagons Southern Area has the photo of the wagon in Gareth modelled on page 219, page 220 has the LNER pic you probably saw with NE in end panels. . There are also many photos in GER Journal of locations with this style lettering on the cattle wagons. No idea why the lack of symmetry! Cant find a photo to share legally on RMWEB unfortunately but Gareth has captured the look excellently. Cheers Jon 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithlord75 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 I shall - since I haven't sealed them in - replace the G with an N as that's going to be easier if the GE did put their letters on the one side than redoing practically everything! Thanks for the information. Shame there isn't much of it easily available on-line for the casual modeller. As for the LMS one - well, it may stay the way it is unless a photo of that turns up. Hard to see how it would have been done any other way to be honest. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) Cleaning up some resin castings for Pixie, with many to do a production line system using a machining jig was set up. Using a fly cutter mounted in a collet chuck and a screwless vice clamped down to the cross slide this was happily accomplished. Edited April 9, 2021 by Bryn 8 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tapdieuk Posted April 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 10, 2021 (edited) After fighting with the roof and sides, the LNWR railmotor body and roof have been soldered together. Bit of a catch 22, the sides and end were flopping about, the roof (some hard thinish brass shim) while trying to tweak the profile kept moving around. Even with the underframe screw up and the lot taped down to a bit of wood, I could not adjust one side with out the other moving around. I got the ends to were it looked ok, tacked those and then manipulated the sides. It's far from prefect, the ends are slightly higher, one side is better than the other, and a few gaps..... but its made the coach much stiffer. Despite the thin brass shim, the roof it did not deform when drilling holes for the vents Only the lower edge of the sides can move when not attached to the underframe. On to the motor bogie now. Edited April 10, 2021 by tapdieuk Spelling 15 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 When forming roofs I always find it best to roll it to a tighter curve than needed, then push the body down slightly on the roof, with it upside down on a firm surface, and get the centre of the ends tacked. That way I find much less tendency for the roof to dip in the middle and it will sit down better on the sides. Jim 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 Ready for paint. The weather seems to have returned today too. Unfortunately I’m still waiting for etch primer (the courier already lost one parcel). 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted April 11, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 11, 2021 30 minutes ago, richbrummitt said: Ready for paint. The weather seems to have returned today too. Unfortunately I’m still waiting for etch primer (the courier already lost one parcel). They look great Rich, pre-group livery? re. etched primer, have you got a Halfords near you - their Acid8 is excellent. Jerry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 4 hours ago, queensquare said: They look great Rich, pre-group livery? re. etched primer, have you got a Halfords near you - their Acid8 is excellent. Jerry Yes, grey. I ordered from fascinating finishes, which I’ve used before. The issue is not with them but the courier having no idea where the parcel is now. Tracking response = unable to locate. Supply of Acid8 seems intermittent regardless of pandemic. Maybe I order some of that too and see what arrives first! Have to build enough stuff to use it up then. Haha It was actually not as warm as it looked and we had two snow showers today so not a missed opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post Nick Mitchell Posted April 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted April 11, 2021 I've been working on some valve gear over the last few days. Outside Walschaerts to be precise (my favourite kind!) This is for a Fowler 2-6-4T which I haven't looked at for over a year since finishing writing the instructions for Nigel to supply with the etches. Those instructions (and the kit design) have the loco in mid gear, but I am building an "enhanced" version in forward gear just for fun. Don't worry - it won't reverse itself... A bit of forward planning was required when making the cylinder block for the loco. As well a as tube to guide the piston rod, a smaller tube was built into each side to guide the valve spindle. The piston guide tubes are 1mm o/d 0.5mm i/d, drilled out to 0.7mm once in situ. The valve guide tubes are 0.8mm o/d 0.45mm i/d. Eventually a tuned cover will fit over the protruding valve guide tubes to represent the end of the valve chest. In the photo above, the slide bars have been fitted, and quite a bit of time was spent filing and polishing them to ensure the crossheads can move very freely. The crossheads themselves are a 3-part fully etched version which come as part of the kit - very cleverly designed to be self-jigging, and incredibly effective. An alternative with a cast back/centre and etched front is available (and equally effective), but I really like the all etched version: In the picture above, the right hand cross head and connecting rod can be seen. A 0.65mm plated dressmakers' pin has been used as the piston rod, and has already been cut to length and domed off at the end. Once the crossheads have been tested in the slide bars with things temporarily lashed together on the chassis, the adaptations to the valve gear can properly begin... Here is the radius rod freshly cut from the fret, with a nice fold-up valve crosshead guide on the end of it: You can see in the picture above I have opened out the hole in one of the rods where the lifting arm is designed to locate. This is the first stage of clearing out the slot. The next stage will be to cut the webs with a scalpel. The slot, btw, is 0.5mm wide. Below, the slots in both rods are nearly there. A thin strip of wet'n'dry pulled through the slots will finish them off. The little crosshead guides have gone too, but will be saved safely for later. Next my attention turned to the combination levers. Nigel has made life easy here by etching two holes at the top end: one for the valve spindle and one for the radius rod. For robust-ness, these parts (and the union links which join to them at the bottom end) are quite reasonably made a bit thicker than scale. The prototype ones also have a slight taper, so it was into the vice to thin them down a bit... there's plenty of metal either side of the fluting to play with. In the vice I've got 0.3mm rod through the holes at either end of the parts. These hold the part a consistent height above the vice jaws. Being a watchmaker's vice, it is capable of gripping the very thin edge of the metal. A bit of scrap 0.45mm thick acts as a guide to file down to for the union links (one of which I am attacking in the picture below). The combination levers were done free-hand, as they didn't need to be thinned quite so much. I am using a #6 cut swiss file which is very fine. This procedure is repeated on both edges of each part. Here's a comparison shot between a set of parts after thinning and the originals: Next the expansion links need some attention. The position of the gear will be set by pinning the radius rod to a different location on the link. Below the pivot for forward gear, above for reverse in the case of an outside admission valve. In the picture below, an additional hole to set the gear has been drilled in each link. I decided to add the equivalent of a half-etched overlay to give a bit more 3D relief to these links. They were soldered to a scrap of 5 thou. shim (being careful to do one left and one right hand!) before drilling through the holes and cutting them out: Here are the modified left-hand parts laid out in roughly their final arrangement with the cross head. A valve spindle needs to be fabricated. This is a bit of 0.45m brass rod (a sliding fit in the 0.8mm tube), squashed flat at one end. A valve-gear washer is soldered onto the flat, and then frilled through to form an "eye" at the end. More of these washers and short lengths of 0.3mm rod are used to form pivot joints between all the parts. For the top end of the combination lever, I made a special double washer (filed from a bit of scrap etch, using the holes in the combination lever as a drilling template). In the photo below you can see the double washer just having been soldered, with a scrap of oiled cigarette paper in place below it as a solder barrier. At this stage, with the valve rod and piston rod joined together, the two need to be tested in the cylinders. The important bit us to make sure the leading edge of the cross head doesn't catch on the back of the combination lever as it passes behind it. If it does, the combination lever will need to be cranked outwards. This one, however, is just perfect! The rest of the valve components can then continue to be added to the lengthening chain. Below I have added the expansion link and return rod. The conn. rod is temporarily held in place for effect. This is as far as I have got this afternoon. My eyes need a rest before I do any more! 7 18 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaus ojo Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 Nick thank you so much for showing how it could be done! I am currently pausing with my LNER V1 because the valve gear fell apart when trying to solder on the crank pin. But I´ll have to learn it because all my projects will have Walschaerts gear- unless they are having an Allen outside gear Your videos and pictures are helping a lot! Yours Klaus 9 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 3 hours ago, Nick Mitchell said: I've been working on some valve gear over the last few days. <snip> The crossheads themselves are a 3-part fully etched version which come as part of the kit - very cleverly designed to be self-jigging, and incredibly effective. An alternative with a cast back/centre and etched front is available (and equally effective), but I really like the all etched version: In the picture above, the right hand cross head and connecting rod can be seen. A 0.65mm plated dressmakers' pin has been used as the piston rod, and has already been cut to length and domed off at the end. I'm intrigued by the self jigging cross head since it looks very GWR in shape (maybe not in size). I've tried several variations to produce something similar (i.e. GWR) with mixed success. Some very fine bits of etch result but much cleaning and filing required for a working fit on the slidebars and good alignment of the layers still requires a degree of care. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nick Mitchell Posted April 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 11, 2021 Just now, richbrummitt said: I'm intrigued by the self jigging cross head since it looks very GWR in shape (maybe not in size). I've tried several variations to produce something similar (i.e. GWR) with mixed success. Some very fine bits of etch result but much cleaning and filing required for a working fit on the slidebars and good alignment of the layers still requires a degree of care. The central piece folds into a U shape. The arms of the U form the top and bottom flat sliding surfaces of the crosshead. Each of these arms has a tab which fits into a slot in the front and rear plates. The piston rod pin then solders to the flat base of the U in-between projections on the front and rear plates. The tabs on the U only fit into both slots nicely if it has been folded square and parallel. I soldered mine from the outside, introducing the solder where the tabs protrude through the slots. That way there is practically no cleaning up required inside the sliding channels. The other advantage of this style of construction is the amount of space inside the body of the crosshead for the little end of the connecting rod. The only scope for error is in soldering the piston rod either off-centre vertically or at a jaunty angle - but that is a potential pitfall with any fabricated crosshead. I check the alignment by holding the crosshead in a pair of parallel jaw pliers and eyeballing the piston rod. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nig H Posted April 12, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 12, 2021 13 hours ago, Nick Mitchell said: I've been working on some valve gear over the last few days. Outside Walschaerts to be precise (my favourite kind!) This is for a Fowler 2-6-4T which I haven't looked at for over a year since finishing writing the instructions for Nigel to supply with the etches. Those instructions (and the kit design) have the loco in mid gear, but I am building an "enhanced" version in forward gear just for fun. Don't worry - it won't reverse itself... A bit of forward planning was required when making the cylinder block for the loco. As well a as tube to guide the piston rod, a smaller tube was built into each side to guide the valve spindle. The piston guide tubes are 1mm o/d 0.5mm i/d, drilled out to 0.7mm once in situ. The valve guide tubes are 0.8mm o/d 0.45mm i/d. Eventually a tuned cover will fit over the protruding valve guide tubes to represent the end of the valve chest. In The rest of the valve components can then continue to be added to the lengthening chain. Below I have added the expansion link and return rod. The conn. rod is temporarily held in place for effect. This is as far as I have got this afternoon. My eyes need a rest before I do any more! Hi Nick, Brilliant work as usual and I'm looking forward to seeing the finished results in the flesh. The improvements to the combination lever and union link are well worthwhile. I'm pleased the etched crosshead seems to work and I'm glad I left it on the etch. Thanks for showing how you did all this . Nigel Hunt 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Morgan Posted April 12, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 12, 2021 19 hours ago, richbrummitt said: I ordered from fascinating finishes, which I’ve used before. The issue is not with them but the courier having no idea where the parcel is now. Tracking response = unable to locate. Supply of Acid8 seems intermittent regardless of pandemic. Maybe I order some of that too and see what arrives first! Have to build enough stuff to use it up then. Haha Following a recommendation on another thread, I bought a couple of tins of Hycote Grey Primer from Amazon. It is supposed to be the same as Halfords, but is cheaper and comes in bigger tins. Seems OK. I use Tamiya Fine Surface Primer when I have fine detail, but I don't know if it is actually better. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithlord75 Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 Today's SEQAG meeting saw me make some progress on finishing a few more wagons. The GWR V16 is the resin body (2-526) and chassis (2-361) advised last June by @John Brenchley and built by my daughter and I last September (and recorded somewhere up the thread). I finally organised the correct sized transfers for it as the ones I had didn't fit (not unsurprisingly as they are N gauge ones!). I took the opportunity at the Thursday Night Knitting Club I have with @nebnoswal and @David Hugenholtz to draw the correct ones using the actual 93045 presently preserved at the Severn Valley Railway as the template. David then printed them Friday evening using the ghost toner he has and sorted today. The SR D1428 is the drawing mentioned either here or the 3D print thread which had their chassis (2-368) built last year when there was still the slight glimmer of hope that the Australian Super Meet would still happen. As it didn't the progress lay dormant until Friday 9th when enthusiasm gripped and the basic body was done into the early hours of the morning. A tweak here and there principally around the door locking mechanism and you have what you see here. Very pleased as it's the first drawing I've done which went straight onto the chassis without needing significant clean up or tweaking (the door locking mech on the first print was fixed by gluing some 0.15 wire where the print hadn't printed). Decals for these from the NGS sheet which comes with their significantly oversized models but the various elements fitted in place. If the Bluebell has it wrong on their example then I've got it wrong too in terms of location. The right hand one doesn't have any wheels in it - and neither have had their DGs fitted - as I've run out of spoked ones, didn't want to rob another model for the photo and couldn't be bothered braving the rain to go and get some 3 hole disc ones from the shed. All three are obviously too clean so something will be done about that in due course. I'll pass the news that this one works onto Products Officer so it can be listed on the stl exchange (along with the 5 plank 1907 RCH PoW) for those interested in having some. The plywood version will also be available fairly shortly with the 2+2 planking to come along in due course (although I suspect that may require a redraw from almost the ground up owing to how I did this one). 10 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nig H Posted April 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2021 About to leave the workbench, just some minor adjustments and weathering still to do, ex-LMS articulated BSO/SO. The articulation joint seems to work OK though I haven't tested it through any pointwork yet. Nigel Hunt 16 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post Ian Morgan Posted April 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted April 17, 2021 (edited) Having used my imagination to create a non-descript building supplies/scrap dealership at the far end of the goods yard that I have not found photographs of, I decided the business needed a better means of transporting its wares than the old bicycle. I purchased an Autocraft white metal casting for a 1930's Reliant three wheeled van. This is a nice casting, but there are a couple of omissions. First, there is no interior detail, or floor. Second, are the wheels. Representing spokes in this scale is obviously not practical and the etched bicycles I use do not have them either, which is fine. However, in photos of real Reliants of this period, the ends of the rear axle, and in particular the brake drums, are plainly visible, and needed to be added. So, I cut out a floor from a piece of spare brass etch surround and added a chassis using the staples from the Autocraft packaging (waste not want not). A length of brass rod formed the axle and a couple of etched con rod washers were just right for the brake drums. A lump of plastic formed to represent the engine cover was glued inside the body, and another piece of plastic was glued inside the back doors for the floor to sit against. Getting the right position for the axles to sit centrally in the rear wheels took a bit of care. Above the floor, I added a representation of the driver's seat, and a steering wheel, using a small etched wheel from N Brass. A 12BA bolt was soldered into a hole drilled in the floor. This will be used to glue the vehicle to the layout. Now it was ready for painting. The layout is very green at the moment, so I wanted to add a splash of colour. It may not be a prototypical colour, but I went for yellow. The roof and mudguards seem to be always painted black on these. I printed my own transfers, which is simple for black lettering on transparent film. Before wetting them, I varnished them using Johnsons/Pledge Multi-Surface Polish (used to be called Kleer) which is actually a cheap way of buying acrylic varnish. This protects the printing while applying the transfers. The windscreen was cut from a tray that had held some bakewell tarts. The 'cups' are used for mixing and thinning paint. Fitting the windscreen, fixed with Kristal Klear cockpit glue, took some patience. Fortunately, the side windows are not glazed. I added an etched roof rack from FKS Modellbau, and a suitcase from bits of plastic, and Totland Independent Trading Co was born. Any similarity between this model and any other yellow three wheeler van is, of course, entirely coincidental. Edited April 17, 2021 by Ian Morgan 17 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 6 hours ago, Sithlord75 said: Today's SEQAG meeting saw me make some progress on finishing a few more wagons. The GWR V16 is the resin body (2-526) and chassis (2-361) advised Don’t know anything about the brown ones but the one on the left looks great apart from the blinding white roof. Best to do (or have done) your own transfers done for ‘ventilated’ unless anyone knows of a source that are actually the right size to fit the resin bodies? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tapdieuk Posted April 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2021 (edited) A half dozen P O wagons. 2 diffrent wagon bodies to give a bit of varation. The older mouldings needing some internal details. A bit tedious at times, but progress is being made. Edited April 17, 2021 by tapdieuk Photo link edit 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted April 17, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2021 6 hours ago, Sithlord75 said: Today's SEQAG meeting saw me make some progress on finishing a few more wagons. The GWR V16 is the resin body (2-526) and chassis (2-361) advised last June by @John Brenchley and built by my daughter and I last September (and recorded somewhere up the thread). I finally organised the correct sized transfers for it as the ones I had didn't fit (not unsurprisingly as they are N gauge ones!). I took the opportunity at the Thursday Night Knitting Club I have with @nebnoswal and @David Hugenholtz to draw the correct ones using the actual 93045 presently preserved at the Severn Valley Railway as the template. David then printed them Friday evening using the ghost toner he has and sorted today. The SR D1428 is the drawing mentioned either here or the 3D print thread which had their chassis (2-368) built last year when there was still the slight glimmer of hope that the Australian Super Meet would still happen. As it didn't the progress lay dormant until Friday 9th when enthusiasm gripped and the basic body was done into the early hours of the morning. A tweak here and there principally around the door locking mechanism and you have what you see here. Very pleased as it's the first drawing I've done which went straight onto the chassis without needing significant clean up or tweaking (the door locking mech on the first print was fixed by gluing some 0.15 wire where the print hadn't printed). Decals for these from the NGS sheet which comes with their significantly oversized models but the various elements fitted in place. If the Bluebell has it wrong on their example then I've got it wrong too in terms of location. The right hand one doesn't have any wheels in it - and neither have had their DGs fitted - as I've run out of spoked ones, didn't want to rob another model for the photo and couldn't be bothered braving the rain to go and get some 3 hole disc ones from the shed. All three are obviously too clean so something will be done about that in due course. I'll pass the news that this one works onto Products Officer so it can be listed on the stl exchange (along with the 5 plank 1907 RCH PoW) for those interested in having some. The plywood version will also be available fairly shortly with the 2+2 planking to come along in due course (although I suspect that may require a redraw from almost the ground up owing to how I did this one). excellent work I be chasing you for the STL's thought down under was endless sunshine Nick B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithlord75 Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 5 hours ago, richbrummitt said: Don’t know anything about the brown ones but the one on the left looks great apart from the blinding white roof. Best to do (or have done) your own transfers done for ‘ventilated’ unless anyone knows of a source that are actually the right size to fit the resin bodies? Definitely did my own - and yes, the roof does look more like Bridgnorth 2020 than anywhere on the system 1930! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-missy- Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 There is an amazing amount of milling operations for such a tiny bit of Brass... Julia. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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