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Whats on your 2mm Work bench

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One of the several things that have found its onto my workbench in the last week or so is my first bogie coach - a GWR Dean period diagram D37 Van 3rd (with a clerestory roof).

 

This is one of Worsley Works "scratch aid" kits, being basically a floor, sides and ends, and clerestory sides and ends.  Having put together Allan's GWR 4 wheeled coaches, I found the parts went together easily enough.  A roof then had to be sourced, so I cut a suitably sized piece of 0.005" brass sheet for the main roof, and carefully rolled the 3-arc roof profile.  Thinking about the clerestory element of the roof, I decided to go the same way that I had with my 6 wheeled coach from my own etch - that is to say I cut holes in the roof where the clerestory would go - the reason for this is two-fold i) I wanted to assemble the clerestory sides and ends onto the main roof and then enable the clerestory roof to be fitted afterwards, so I needed a way to get the iron into the clerestory to attach the roof from the inside, and ii) in the period I model the windows in the clerestory would still be glazed so I needed access to the clerestory interior so I can fit the glazing.

 

Clerestory.JPG.b91df1ac25071002afbd7bbae1f2277c.JPG

General view of where I'm at - Underframe bent up and solebar/upper footboards fitted.  Body basically ready for trying to fit clerestory roof.  One Dean 8'6" bogie assembled.

 

Because no bogies are provided in the kit, I am going to fit some of my own design.  When I did the 6 wheeled coaches I included Dean 6'4" and 8'6" bogies on the sheet (only to realise now that the D37's actually had Dean 10'0" bogies!).  However, until I do another etch this model will be fitted with Dean 8'6" bogies for the time being.  The bogie etch includes brakes and footboards, but still needs the volute springs fabricating and fitting.

 

Bogie.JPG.36cdb4d2848a7d448558db8e340b5949.JPG

The basic bogie as designed.  The two-layer springs are a bit fragile until soldered (one of the springs on the far side has lost a "spring cup" on one end of its outer layer).  The gaps in the footboard are to accommodate the volute springs when I've fabricated/turned them up.  The supports below the footboard need a wipe or two with a file to thin them and make them less obvious.

 

There's still loads to do, obviously the clerestory needs a roof.  Both grooves will then need rain strips.  The door vents need to be added above the doors, and the door G grab handles need sweating on.  The gas lamps and associated piping will have to be added to the clerestory roof.  The handrails added to the step end and the brake tell-tale, etc added to the other end.  And of course there's another bogie to be made and the underframe needs all of its various fittings made and fitted.

 

Ian 

 

edit :

PS Out of interest how do others do their clerestories?  Is there a better way?

Edited by Ian Smith
forgot the PS
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2 hours ago, Ian Smith said:

 

PS Out of interest how do others do their clerestories?  Is there a better way?

 

You tell me. I reckon you'll finish your second before I get around to the one I started in 2004/5. Mine are from shot down blacksmith bought from Cove models before it shut. Also D37s. Shall I look if I have any 10' bogies spare? You could just use the stretchers. 

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9 hours ago, richbrummitt said:

 

You tell me. I reckon you'll finish your second before I get around to the one I started in 2004/5. Mine are from shot down blacksmith bought from Cove models before it shut. Also D37s. Shall I look if I have any 10' bogies spare? You could just use the stretchers. 

Rich,

This one's actually been on the go for quite a while - it was the first coach kit I bought from Allan (at the 2mm Wallingford event a few years ago not long after I started in 2mm scale). I soldered one side to one end and that was as far as it got!

 

If you do have a 10' bogie pair surplus to requirements, I will happily take it off your hands.  This is the only coach that I have that requires 10' bogies - I have a diagram C4 "All 3rd" and a diagram E14 1st/2nd Composite to make up a short set, and they will both sit on 6'4" bogies.

Ian

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Not strictly on my work bench as all I have done is take them out of the boxs

 

 

 

 

 

who would ever think such things would be available RTR the coach set will get its wheels turned the Terrier a replacement chassis eventually and those horrible couplings removed

 

Nick 

Edited by nick_bastable
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It seems like my usual procrastination technique is to work on wagons! 

 

I've finally got around to putting together some of the etches to correct the brake gear on Farish LNER 10ft chassis wagons that Richard Benn made a while back.

IMG_20190520_231032.jpg.dc6b2ca947604c2aae912c3b14914760.jpg

 

On the left is a Farish van out of the box, in the middle with the etch fitted, and on the right is one with the etch, and weathered. Feels like a definite improvement! 

 

IMG_20190526_215340.jpg.dfef30900b018efc44b2350c5c818a89.jpg

 

Lurking in the background are some other grouping-era wagons that I finished recently. The GW opens are painted with Phoenix GW wagon grey. I don't really know a great deal about the GW, but the colour looks VERY dark - not far from black. Is this correct?

 

The wagons are posed on the mock-up for my new shunting plank - I'll do a post about that soon! 

 

Justin

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The GWR wagons look too dark. Engineering wagons were black, the remainder were a green grey.

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I must admit that I have always felt that the GWR Grey sold by Precision Paints, Railmatch, etc is a bit on the dark side for 2mm models.  It's probably fine for 12" to the foot preserved stock though.  I always use Humbrol matt 67 and no one has (yet) told me that my wagons are too light (in colour).

 

Ian

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Many thanks Richard and Ian. Currently wondering whether to try and "fade" them with a weathering dusting of light grey over the top, or just to strip the whole thing and start again. Probably worth doing it properly I guess. I think I have Humbrol 67 somewhere.

 

This isn't the first time I've been disappointed with the result of Phoenix paints like this. Their GER blue is also WAY too dark (I've settled on Revell Lufthansa blue as an alternative!). I've also had a tin of their "roof dirt" turn from grey to green in the tin after a few years. Almost minded to chuck them all out - certainly won't be buying any more!

 

Justin

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The Phoenix paints try to match a sample from a full size example, so they are accurate. But if you used their GER blue on a loco on a preserved line, say, it would probably come out looking like the photos of the Liverpool Street buck jumper pilot, (which to me also look dark).  Using a small quantity on a model you need to get the paint several shades lighter before it looks a blue you’d regard as acceptable. I usually go for Humbrol Midnight Blue with a bit of their medium (French?) blue mixed in. Likewise the GWR wagon grey needs a small dab of white in it.

Funny thing if you go to a show, you can get away with polite criticism on pretty well any aspect of a model, but you say you think it’s painted the wrong shade, it will come to fisticuffs!

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I use games workshop/citadel/warhammer* adeptus battlegrey** for gwr wagons. It's not quite as dark or green as the freshly painted stuff at didcot but paint seems to change colour pretty quickly left outside so I don't worry.

 

*whatever they call themselves now

**the names got changed a couple of years back so it will be something else now but I'm still on a pot from beforehand. 

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I found I had a tin of Revell 78, which is listed as equivalent to Humbrol 67, so I've left the wagons to strip in a baggie with Fairy Powerspray while I'm out for the day today. It would only bug me if I had left them!

 

In general I increasingly prefer acrylics, but seeing as I have a suitable Revell enamel, I'll give it a go. I keep meaning to at least write down a list of colour matches I've been using .. 

 

Thanks for the help, all! 

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Effectiely as you use smaller scales it is like viewing something further away. Full size, the intensity of colour diminishes with distance so the colour for 2mm use should be reduced in intensity. It would be interesting to take photos of a wagon at Didcott from 44ft, 76ft and 152ft all on the same day and conditions. 

 

Don

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8 hours ago, Ian Smith said:

I must admit that I have always felt that the GWR Grey sold by Precision Paints, Railmatch, etc is a bit on the dark side for 2mm models.

I find the same with their Caledonian wagon oxide, which is much darker than the old Precision Paints version.  I never paint two wagons in exactly the same colour anyway, adding a touch of black or white, but I now add varying amount of yellow to get back to a more orangy shade.

 

Jim

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4 hours ago, Donw said:

Effectiely as you use smaller scales it is like viewing something further away. Full size, the intensity of colour diminishes with distance so the colour for 2mm use should be reduced in intensity. It would be interesting to take photos of a wagon at Didcott from 44ft, 76ft and 152ft all on the same day and conditions. 

 

Don

To further complicate things, Didcott has deliberately painted their wagons a darker-than-accurate shade of grey to hold up against fading in the sun and needing to be repainted more often. 

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My 498 class 0-6-0T  was the first loco i built with a compensated chassis, over 40 years ago, and has always been a good runner, however of late its performance has been a bit more erratic for some reason, the problem being current collection.  There is nowhere to fit stay-alives, so I've spent the week-end fitting skids and doing a wee bit of refurbishment (replacing cab steps which had gone awol).  The skids have transformed the performance, even on less that perfectly clean track.

 

558201037_499skids1.JPG.bd11cb26533cad9371a0498311ee1793.JPG

 

The skids are little pieces of 8thou brass soldered to 8thou p/b wire,, which is in turn soldered to the lower edge of the frames.  The brass is curved up front and rear so that it will ride over any irregular track joints.   I've fitted them so that the front ones are under the cylinders and the rear ones behind the cab steps and even from almost rail level they are virtually undetectable.  They are set so that when sitting on its flanges, they just touch the surface.  the body is white metal, so there is plenty of weight and the loco will still haul enough wagons for my purpose.

 

573933100_499skids2.JPG.02283fd38ce746577841fbf27ec8ad26.JPG

 

I know the loco is sitting a bit down at the rear.  One of the little strips of styrene which packed up the back of the body from the frames had been lost, but that has now been replaced so it's sitting level again now.  There was a risk of the buffers riding under those of an adjacent wagon when propelling.

 

Jim

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On the wagon colours, does this look better for GW grey? Wagons were stripped and now repainted in Revell 78 "German tank grey", which is supposedly the match for Humbrol 67. This time posed in natural light.

IMG_20190530_102531__01.jpg.b91612647d3f5b88540f56b2953ac480.jpg

 

On the subject of wagon colours, this reminded me of some of the other part finished wagons that came to me together with "Long Melford". Two of these LNER coal wagons were painted a very dark grey and already decaled with the "LOCO" lettering etc, but without chassis. I suspect the very very dark grey is actually Phoenix LNER wagon grey, which clearly suffers from the same lack of scale colour as the GW wagon grey!

 

IMG_20190530_103608.jpg.83bc11fb1253acf1c2d208fb1b85d7d0.jpg

 

I built some Fencehouses chassis for them and tried to tone down the paintwork with a dry brushing of Vallejo "neutral grey". They also had a wash of Games Workshop dirty black wash, as they are coal wagons after all. But, I'm not entirely happy with the finish - the drybrushing seems to have given it a bit of a low-fi, fuzzy look? Tempted to also strip these and repaint, especially now Modelmaster have re-released their decal sheet that includes the LNER "loco" lettering (the equivalent from Fox doesn't have it).

 

I'm much more pleased with the LMS cattle wagons though! Painted with varied mixes of Vallejo greys, and weathered with Games Workshop washes again. 

 

Justin

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Justin,

 

Grey looks better now it's lighter. I wouldn't worry too much about the exact shade. How does one get hold of model master decals nowadays is it NGS members only? I bought some fox sheets recently but they don't seem to have all or enough of the right lettering for my use.

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7 minutes ago, richbrummitt said:

Justin,

 

Grey looks better now it's lighter. I wouldn't worry too much about the exact shade. How does one get hold of model master decals nowadays is it NGS members only? I bought some fox sheets recently but they don't seem to have all or enough of the right lettering for my use.

 

Oh I'm certainly not worried about exact shades being "correct" - hence the two LMS cattle wagons being deliberately different! I certainly subscribe to Jim's suggestion of giving each wagon a drop or two of extra black or white to make sure they're not too uniform.

 

But I would like to keep a general sense of different companies being distinguishable - e.g. GW should be the darkest.

 

The Phoenix LNER grey is basically the same shade that I've arrived at for the GWR wagons - but I'd like there to be a visible difference between them, so I feel like the LNER wagons should start off with a lighter grey.

 

The NGS/Modelmaster transfers seem to have entirely disappeared in a mire of incompetence and endless reorganization - so far as I've heard from the NGS Magazine. They were originally available only from the NGS Shop - but that went to pot. The new volunteers decided to reorganize and assign new catalogue numbers etc, but then couldn't cope with the number of different products, so they gave up and transferred them over to Modelmaster on the understanding that members would get a discount. Then some further falling out occurred, and the stock got transferred back to the NGS again! But back to square one, as after many months, they still haven't been able to sort them and get selling them!

 

Thankfully Modelmaster have released their own much smaller range of transfers, basically just a set of wagon liveries for each of the big four. They're copied down from their 4mm range this time, I think. They certainly include all the interesting extra letting like "Loco", "Large" for cattle wagons, etc. You can order directly from their website - pricey postage but good service.

 

Justin

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I recall a tale I've told somewhere on here already of an ex Darlington Works painter being asked to demonstrate how they mixed the colour for wagons, the LNER society having found a document with the list of ingredients.  I'm not going to repeat it again, but the long and short of it was that he responded that they were only painting wagons and nobody bothered exactly what shade they were (and it probably differed from mix to mix).  the only thing that the top brass were concerned about was the colour of the top-link locos! 

That NE wagon looks to me just like a dirty, well used coal wagon.  In other words, exactly as it should look.

 

Jim

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When helping to man the Roadshow stand at either Model Rail or at Perth i usually spend the time assembling one of my etched wagon kits, although it often results in more conversations about soldering, from those who consider it a black art, than about 2FS!  As a result I tend to have a collection of wagons in 'North Somerset Light Rly.' livery.  I decided it was time to take the latest three through the paint shop.

 

617102964_Dixonsbogie.JPG.0f79f22ed765932077b13d44c2af76a2.JPG

 

The lettering on these was done with some Railmatch matt white acrylic i bought at Model Rail last February and I have to say that it was much easier to work with than the Rowney artists acrylic I had been using .  the only slight problem I found was that it tended to dry practically instantly, leaving no time to wash off any errors with water, but the addition of a little slow drying gel sorted that.  the two 'Dixon' wagons will be at either end of a short raft of empties and have a semi-permanent coupling between them., with the three link hooked up.

 

Jim

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On 30/05/2019 at 12:07, justin1985 said:

On the wagon colours, does this look better for GW grey? Wagons were stripped and now repainted in Revell 78 "German tank grey", which is supposedly the match for Humbrol 67. This time posed in natural light.

IMG_20190530_102531__01.jpg.b91612647d3f5b88540f56b2953ac480.jpg

 

On the subject of wagon colours, this reminded me of some of the other part finished wagons that came to me together with "Long Melford". Two of these LNER coal wagons were painted a very dark grey and already decaled with the "LOCO" lettering etc, but without chassis. I suspect the very very dark grey is actually Phoenix LNER wagon grey, which clearly suffers from the same lack of scale colour as the GW wagon grey!

 

IMG_20190530_103608.jpg.83bc11fb1253acf1c2d208fb1b85d7d0.jpg

 

I built some Fencehouses chassis for them and tried to tone down the paintwork with a dry brushing of Vallejo "neutral grey". They also had a wash of Games Workshop dirty black wash, as they are coal wagons after all. But, I'm not entirely happy with the finish - the drybrushing seems to have given it a bit of a low-fi, fuzzy look? Tempted to also strip these and repaint, especially now Modelmaster have re-released their decal sheet that includes the LNER "loco" lettering (the equivalent from Fox doesn't have it).

 

I'm much more pleased with the LMS cattle wagons though! Painted with varied mixes of Vallejo greys, and weathered with Games Workshop washes again. 

 

Justin

 

Not sure about the GW Wagon grey, I have always imagined it a bit darker but then again I have never seen an original, only the GWS take on it.

 

However, that DC1 brake lever in the photo is supposed to run behind the axleguard, not in front of it.

 

Chris

Edited by Chris Higgs

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12 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

Not sure about the GW Wagon grey, I have always imagined it a bit darker but then again I have never seen an original, only the GWS take on it.

 

However, that DC1 brake lever in the photo is supposed to run behind the axleguard, not in front of it.

 

Chris

 

Hmmm, the grey did get a bit darker with an application of varnish ready for decals, but perhaps it is too far the other way, compared to the Phoenix one. Perhaps time for another strip, and this time I'll just use acrylics. Enamel paints are increasingly doing my head in. 

 

I'd struggled to get my head around the DC brakes, and thought I'd followed the diagrams here: http://www.gwr.org.uk/nowagonbrakes.html

 

But now I've re-read the text that goes with them, and I understand what you mean. What an utterly bizarre design! So I guess definitely time to strip, and see if I can correct that without destroying things entirely. 

 

I can definitely sympathise with Peter Denny's reputed comments on why he chose to model the GC, because people knew too much about the GW ;)

 

J

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Hopefully this is correct with the DC1 brakes now? 

IMG-20190603-WA0020.jpeg.53ce9733c1e3d93cad07de789f5160fb.jpeg

 

Amongst the paints I have in stock, Vallejo "German Grey" looks like a good candidate for the livery colour now, I think. Darker than the Revell I tried before, but still a bit less black than the Phoenix colour.

 

Justin

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I think you might have the arm outside the central V on the cross shaft for the brake push rods? If so close but not quite (though I probably wouldn't change it again). If you have it between the V and the brake push rods then it is where it should be. 

 

Edit: see 14th image (3rd from end) in this blog post  where the detail of interest has just made the crop.

 

Edited by richbrummitt
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