Hornby Sentinel - including cranked version

[Hippo]

I have had an e-mail from Ultrascale this morning to let me know they had reached the minimum to produce anther run of EM gauge wheel sets for the chain drive Sentinel

Quote

Dear Customer,

The Hornby 'Sentinels' for EM gauge, have now reached the required batch 
run quantity.

As you showed interest in this item, you are getting this email to find 
out if you are still interested and would like to order this conversion. 
If you do then please let me know and I will email the 'Special order 
code' required for you to place your order. The batch run will be 
started once I have confirmed orders from all customers that showed 
interest.

Please note that this conversion is for the Hornby 'Sentinel' WITHOUT 
the outside cranks. Also it is for the EM version ONLY and that this 
will be the last batch run of this conversion. Once this batch is done 
no more will be produced

 

In case any one is interested, now is the time to contact them

 

Thanks

Owen

[Stoker]

On 03/04/2018 at 18:43, rprodgers said:

Is the Hornby model of the Sentinel the same as were used in the China clay industry in Cornwall

 

 

Denise, Sharon?

The chain drive version is a good fit for P403D "Denise", although there were a few minor detail differences. It was fitted with railings instead of side panels, the brake gear was run behind the wheels rather than in front of them, it didn't have the air vents on the roof, and by the time it was in service with ECC it'd lost it's sentinel swords. In vacuum braked form it had a vac tank on the right hand side of the engine, in air braked form the vac tank was removed and it had an air compressor compartment added on the left hand side of the engine. The locomotive was delivered new to British Steel in 1960, who painted it orange, with yellow stepwells, black valances, and wasp striped buffer beams. ECC bought it in 1970, and they retained the British Steel paint scheme, although the shade of orange varied over the years from high-vis to ochre.

P401D "Sharon" was an English Electric Vulcan Foundry 0-4-0. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has made a kit of this type yet.

As far as I know, ECC only owned one other Sentinel, an 0-6-0 which they operated at one of their stone quarries outside of Cornwall. This was later divested to CAMAS.

[rprodgers]

Thanks Stoker for such an informative reply

[1722]

Potentially odd question here.

 

I own a Sentinel that is not the outside crank version. Do people think it would be possible/viable to turn it into the outside crank version? 

[Gordon A]

58 minutes ago, 1722 said:

Potentially odd question here.

 

I own a Sentinel that is not the outside crank version. Do people think it would be possible/viable to turn it into the outside crank version? 

As far as I know they are different wheel bases.

 

Gordon A

[1722]

5 hours ago, Gordon A said:

As far as I know they are different wheel bases.

 

Gordon A

Appreciate the help. Thanks. 

[Michael Edge]

Different wheelbase, wheel diameter and platform/ buffer beam width. The buffer beams are an entirely different shape as well. Cab and casings are the same.

[Stoker]

@Michael Edge have you ever considered doing a dress-up kit for the Hornby Sentinel? Valence overlays, pipe railings, side filler fuel tank, air compressor box and intake, behind-wheel brake linkage overlay, etc.?

[Steamport Southport]

Don't RT Models already do the valences?

 

https://www.rtmodels.co.uk/rt_models_023.htm

 

 

Jason

[Stoker]

22 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Don't RT Models already do the valences?

 

https://www.rtmodels.co.uk/rt_models_023.htm

 

 

Jason

They do but they don't have sandbox covers. If you gain seamless valances but lose sandbox covers, that feels like a net zero to me.

[Michael Edge]

8 hours ago, Stoker said:

@Michael Edge have you ever considered doing a dress-up kit for the Hornby Sentinel? Valence overlays, pipe railings, side filler fuel tank, air compressor box and intake, behind-wheel brake linkage overlay, etc.?

Not really but we do have etched n/s swords and "Sentinel" for £3 a set. We don't do the full brake linkage even in our kit since it was designed to use a motor bogie - the Sentinel brake linkage is actually rather complicated. Open handrails would only be wire and the various boxes you mention differ greatly from one to loco to another. The Hornby model is not really a suitable base for the rod drive version as I have explained earlier.

[RThompson]

On 22 May 2019 at 23:50, Stoker said:

They do but they don't have sandbox covers. If you gain seamless valances but lose sandbox covers, that feels like a net zero to me.

The spill plates below the sandbox filler openings are included on the etch.

For the sandboxes, just reuse the originals by cutting them off and filing the face down slightly.

[Stoker]

On 23/05/2019 at 01:41, Michael Edge said:

Not really but we do have etched n/s swords and "Sentinel" for £3 a set. We don't do the full brake linkage even in our kit since it was designed to use a motor bogie - the Sentinel brake linkage is actually rather complicated. Open handrails would only be wire and the various boxes you mention differ greatly from one to loco to another. The Hornby model is not really a suitable base for the rod drive version as I have explained earlier.

 

A fair enough answer. I will backtrack through the thread to read your impressions on the rod drive version.

 

6 hours ago, RThompson said:

The spill plates below the sandbox filler openings are included on the etch.

For the sandboxes, just reuse the originals by cutting them off and filing the face down slightly.

 

My apologies, I was under the impression that they weren't included. In that case I will likely order a set or two as I've got quite a few sentinels planned.

[Porcy Mane]

On 19/05/2019 at 23:19, Michael Edge said:

Different wheelbase, wheel diameter and platform/ buffer beam width. The buffer beams are an entirely different shape as well. Cab and casings are the same.

 

On 23/05/2019 at 06:41, Michael Edge said:

 The Hornby model is not really a suitable base for the rod drive version as I have explained earlier.

 

Could you elaborate please.

 

The reason I ask is the Hornby Rod Drive I have, utilises a totally different chassis casting. The axle centres are higher in the frame to accommodate the larger 14mm wheels (as opposed to correct 12 mm dia in the chain drive) thus maintaining correct buffer height. 

The buffer/drag beams have different shape cutouts to the chain drive chassis as per prototype. I can't confirm the correct wheelbase at the mo as my rod drive is away on its holidays checking electrical continuity on mates P4 layout but the measured axle hole centres on the dummy side frames are at 24 mm centres so I suspect the wheelbase is correct at 6'  0" as opposed to the chain drive's 6' 6".

 

I'll ring my pal later so that he can confirm the wheelbase.

EDIT: Just read back through my notes when I converted  my rod drive to P4. The wheelbase is correct at 24 mm.

 

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/industriallocomotive/h12FDA580#h12fda580

 

https://flic.kr/p/qzmgzx

P

Edited May 24, 2019 by Porcy Mane
Spilling etc.

[decauville1126]

2 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

 

Could you elaborate please.

 

2 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

EDIT: Just read back through my notes when I converted  my rod drive to P4. The wheelbase is correct at 24 mm.

 

 

 

I may have asked this before (?) but I'm sure your method of P4'ing the rod-coupled version would be of great interest to many, even if it was images of hand-written sketches. Thanks.

[RThompson]

8 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

 

Could you elaborate please.

 

The reason I ask is the Hornby Rod Drive I have, utilises a totally different chassis casting. The axle centres are higher in the frame to accommodate the larger 14mm wheels (as opposed to correct 12 mm dia in the chain drive) thus maintaining correct buffer height. 

The buffer/drag beams have different shape cutouts to the chain drive chassis as per prototype. I can't confirm the correct wheelbase at the mo as my rod drive is away on its holidays checking electrical continuity on mates P4 layout but the measured axle hole centres on the dummy side frames are at 24 mm centres so I suspect the wheelbase is correct at 6'  0" as opposed to the chain drive's 6' 6".

 

I'll ring my pal later so that he can confirm the wheelbase.

EDIT: Just read back through my notes when I converted  my rod drive to P4. The wheelbase is correct at 24 mm.

 

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/industriallocomotive/h12FDA580#h12fda580

 

https://flic.kr/p/qzmgzx

P

Also the footplate is correctly wider on the rod version.

However Hornby DID make a mistake in where they made the skirts symmetrical, they should be asymmetrical which my etches are correct for this.

[Porcy Mane]

On 24/05/2019 at 14:03, decauville1126 said:

I may have asked this before (?) but I'm sure your method of P4'ing the rod-coupled version would be of great interest to many, even if it was images of hand-written sketches. Thanks.

 

You have.   

 

Further to the linked post these two phots should make things clearer.

 

 

 

A brief explanation of the adaptor used on George Watts pullers to remove the Black Beetle wheels whilst keeping axle pin points intact is here.

 

22 hours ago, RThompson said:

Also the footplate is correctly wider on the rod version.

 

Thanks for the reminder Robert. I think we gave that a mention way earlier in the thread.

 

P

[SDJR7F88]

A short running session featuring the superb Hornby Outer-Crank Sentinel, "Barabel" in smart lined Maroon, with Wasp-Strips, edited with Real Sound. 
Sounds are provided by a number of similar class members from my sound collection, captured at various Gala and Preserved Railways over the past few years.
Hope you enjoy!

 

[sleepyrider]

@SDJR7F88 love the sound on that video! Must have taken a fair bit of work but well worth it

[SDJR7F88]

9 hours ago, sleepyrider said:

@SDJR7F88 love the sound on that video! Must have taken a fair bit of work but well worth it

Many thanks! Certainly did, especially the coupling up clips. 

[montyburns56]

I came across these pictures from Abram Disposal Point, Leigh in the late 70s on Flickr which struck me as any easy conversion of the Hornby MSC version. In fact i did wonder if this one originally came from the MSC??

 

 

[Moxy]

1 hour ago, montyburns56 said:

I came across these pictures from Abram Disposal Point, Leigh in the late 70s on Flickr which struck me as any easy conversion of the Hornby MSC version. In fact i did wonder if this one originally came from the MSC??

 

 

That's an interesting question.  According to 'The Railways of the Manchester Ship Canal' (Thorpe OPC ISBN 0860932885), none of them were sold direct from MSC to the NCB Opencast Executive. 

 

Most of them were sold to Thomas Hill (Rotherham) Ltd, (who had bought Rolls Royce's Sentinel business,) in 1971/72.  I wonder if Thomas Hill reconditioned one (or more), and then sold it to NCB Opencast at a later date?  The livery certainly looks like it is ex MSC.

[tractionman]

1 hour ago, Moxy said:

 

  The livery certainly looks like it is ex MSC.

 

Was the MSC livery close to NCB blue? Would be a good livery for Hornby to cover for the Sentinel in the future.

 

cheers,

 

Keith

 

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by tractionman
clarity

[rodent279]

Just to add my two penn'orth, here's ex-MoD 0-8-0 Sentinel no. 610, awaiting restoration at a rainy Bitton, in 2012.

 

And here's the Ribble Steam Railway's 10282 in 2015.

 

 

Cheers N

[rodent279]

Now-can anyone tell me if the Hornby model covers these two:-

 

 

 

These are the pair that worked at the Castle Cement terminal at Pitstone, Tring, until the early 1990's. One survives at Rushden.

 

Cheers N

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by rodent279