Hornby Sentinel - including cranked version

[Metr0Land]

If anyone's not aware, there's a huge resource of UK shunter pics here (some 8,000 pics in the group pool).   Obv only a small proportion are the same version as the Hornby 4w one but plenty of ideas for liveries and weathering of industrials.

 

https://www.flickr.com/groups/shunters/pool/

[bigherb]

If you compare CK's head on view with the Hornby isometric graphic you will see that the latter has a 'stepped' cutout on the corner while the loco in CK's picture has a straight cut corner. 

 

As Mike [Edge] points out, it seems that Hornby have copied a rod drive (i.e. 0-4-0 or 0-6-0) example which did have buffer beams shaped like that.  It is an error which really shouldn't be there and would be a bit of a pain to fix. 

 

Adam

Ah I thought he meant it was 6" wider overall.

 

So these ones have got the wrong buffer beams on them.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46341292@N05/6934104814/

[Adam]

Not 'wrong', but unusual, certainly. Those loco's were bought as a batch by the Preston Dock company so I'd expect that they were the same. They have slightly different marker lights as well - which are also like the rod drive ones. All the preserved prototypes Hornby (and all of those linked from this thread before these) have chosen have the straight cut buffer beam corners and these were by far the most common.

 

Thanks for proving the point that they're not all the same though.

 

Adam

[bigherb]

I should imagine Hornby have gone for that option as they are made to be compatible with train set track and need to clear the rerailer/uncoupling ramp and anything else they may clout.

[Multiple identity account 2]

Simon's dropped me a note with a little more information.

 

 

 

Interesting images Andy. Thanks for putting them up. This is the first time I'm seeing Hornby share some CAD drawings. Looks good. Will surely get one.

[Adam]

I should imagine Hornby have gone for that option as they are made to be compatible with train set track and need to clear the rerailer/uncoupling ramp and anything else they may clout.

 

Not sure exactly what you mean there? There's a hole in the middle for a coupling, but the ground clearance is the same whichever bufferbeam is fitted and for things like uncoupling ramps (been years since I saw one of those!) you'd think the underside of the loco was more likely to be an issue.

 

Adam

[bigherb]

Not sure exactly what you mean there? There's a hole in the middle for a coupling, but the ground clearance is the same whichever bufferbeam is fitted and for things like uncoupling ramps (been years since I saw one of those!) you'd think the underside of the loco was more likely to be an issue.

 

Adam

This

http://www.ehattons.com/6952/Hornby_R620_Rerailer_uncoupler_/StockDetail.aspx

 

It has re-railing rails either side higher than the track which the cut outs would clear.

Edited February 8, 2013 by bigherb

[brian777999]

I prefer the version without the side plates. I will probably modify mine with the scalpel when I get the chance. Will the Hornby model have working lights front and rear as per the prototype ?

[Michael Delamar]

where is the flywheel?

[Adam]

This

http://www.ehattons.com/6952/Hornby_R620_Rerailer_uncoupler_/StockDetail.aspx

 

It has re-railing rails either side higher than the track which the cut outs would clear.

 

I doubt it, but I think you may have tracked down the prototype Hornby measured.

 

Brian: There doesn't seem to be any indication of lights on the diagram (not that this bothers me). There were relatively few industrial railways that operated extensively in the dark and fewer still which bothered to replace the bulbs, the lights were seldom all that bright...

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/69947186@N08/6358322333/in/set-72157631129428694/lightbox/

 

Should there be any, the first thing I would do is decommission them and this would be the case even if they were a realistic level of brightness: they never seem to be. The removal of side sheeting was an in service mod', I think - but am not certain - that the handrails were there all along behind the sheeting.

 

Adam

Edited February 8, 2013 by Adam

[bigherb]

where is the flywheel?

On the end of the motor in yellow on the cad.

[newbryford]

On the end of the motor in yellow on the cad.

 

I think that's the commutator. Can't easily see a flywheel elsewhere.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[newbryford]

Not 'wrong', but unusual, certainly. Those loco's were bought as a batch by the Preston Dock company so I'd expect that they were the same. They have slightly different marker lights as well - which are also like the rod drive ones. All the preserved prototypes Hornby (and all of those linked from this thread before these) have chosen have the straight cut buffer beam corners and these were by far the most common.

 

Thanks for proving the point that they're not all the same though.

 

Adam

 

The Preston Dock Sentinels are ballasted with thicker bufferbeams - an extra steel plate - you can see this with the small "step" at the upper right corner of the buffer beam. The steel plate isn't full depth - there's a gap between it and the running plate - visble between the buffers.

 

The original three were "Enterprise", "Progress" and "Energy". Although the original "Energy" has since been scrapped, another Sentinel acquired by the Ribble Steam Railway has been named after it - but it carries the more normal narrow bevelled buffer beam corners 

 

http://www.ribblesteam.org.uk/index.php/stock/100-energy

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited February 8, 2013 by newbryford

[Ruston]

On the end of the motor in yellow on the cad.

The yellow thing on the end of the motor appears to be the worm drive, not a flywheel!

[Ruston]

Regarding the buffer beams, the vast majority of the 4w version have the bottom corners as simple corners cut off, but there was at least one with the style more usually associated with the rod-drive version. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ontrackplant/6191632230/

[newbryford]

Regarding the buffer beams, the vast majority of the 4w version have the bottom corners as simple corners cut off, but there was at least one with the style more usually associated with the rod-drive version. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ontrackplant/6191632230/

 

Interesting pic - another 4 wheeler with a shortened fuel tank as per the Preston Dock Sentinels.

 

"Normal" 4 wheelers don't have access between the two sides at the short/fuel tank end as the fuel tank extends to the handrail.

 

And a quick google search reveals RR10281 as the original "Energy" - The thing that caught my eye is the chequer board black/yellow ends as per other pics of the Preston trio, but it doesn't have the ballasted bufferbeams as Enterprise and Progress, but still has the air brake compressor box and grille, visible in the side sheet.

 

Look at the third pic down for another interesting variation.

 

All I know is that there are going to many modellers out there who want to hack a Hornby Sentinel! (Now where can I fit a sound decoder/speaker............)

 

EDIT: An early pic of Enterprise and Energy without air brakes - both have the stepped lower bufferbeam edge, thicker bufferbeams and short fuel tanks

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited February 9, 2013 by newbryford

[Multiple identity account 2]

I prefer the version without the side plates. I will probably modify mine with the scalpel when I get the chance. Will the Hornby model have working lights front and rear as per the prototype ?

I didn't see working lights mentioned anywhere so sadly no. Hopefully a kit will be available for it

[Adam]

I didn't see working lights mentioned anywhere so sadly no. Hopefully a kit will be available for it

 

Why sadly? I'm curious.

 

If you want to represent the prototype the 'headlights' were hardly ever used if photos are anything to go by (and if included would be a massively too bright LED) I can't see why this is a problem - unless you  run trains in the dark of course. The little marker lights might well have been lit more often but they're barely visible in pictures and a right fiddle to do. We're probably talking a 1960s car type bulb here so to add to realism they should be 1. pretty dim, 2. used only in poor light or in the dark, and 3. it's likely that at least one would be out of action at any one time after a while because of 1 and 2.

 

I'm just not sure what lighting would add except cost and, from the point of view of producing a quality model (in terms of a replica of the real thing), there are several other things mentioned in this thread which would be more usefully attended to.

 

Adam

[brian777999]

Why sadly? I'm curious.

 

If you want to represent the prototype the 'headlights' were hardly ever used if photos are anything to go by (and if included would be a massively too bright LED) I can't see why this is a problem - unless you  run trains in the dark of course.

 

It seems on many photos of the Sentinels I have seen that there are small lights on the front and rear. There are small LED's of various brightness and colour to suit all situations and I am sure that something suitable could be found.  

 

Some of us do intend to run trains in the dark (or semi darkness).

Edited February 9, 2013 by brian777999

[Adam]

Then that's fair enough. I'm aware of surface mount LEDs, but you've still got to wire them in and that is a fiddle. Can you get them in a clour that looks like a tungsten bulb (yellow-white)? Unless you find space for large resistor or like playing in DCC they're massively too bright and are - as in the case of the Heljan/Hattons class 14 - likely to cause other detail compromises.* I'll stop banging on about this now -  a lack of lights on '60s prototypes really doesn't bother me.

 

Adam

 

* In that case, the size of the marker light casings and possibly the overall length - the bufferbeams are spaced out by 1mm at each end.

[DLPG]

Really looking forward to the release on these loco's! Are they due soon?

[Multiple identity account 2]

Why sadly? I'm curious.

 

If you want to represent the prototype the 'headlights' were hardly ever used if photos are anything to go by (and if included would be a massively too bright LED) I can't see why this is a problem - unless you  run trains in the dark of course. The little marker lights might well have been lit more often but they're barely visible in pictures and a right fiddle to do. We're probably talking a 1960s car type bulb here so to add to realism they should be 1. pretty dim, 2. used only in poor light or in the dark, and 3. it's likely that at least one would be out of action at any one time after a while because of 1 and 2.

 

I'm just not sure what lighting would add except cost and, from the point of view of producing a quality model (in terms of a replica of the real thing), there are several other things mentioned in this thread which would be more usefully attended to.

 

Adam

Brian777999 asked if they had so I assumed he would like to have working lights. Hence the sadly. I don't see anything wrong in that. I myself  wouldn't bother about it as it is a really small loco. It looks great and that's more than enough for me Adam. 

[brian777999]

It would be nice to have one working British model loco with lights.  Very few British prototypes had them so here is Hornby's chance ! There are a number of suppliers selling small working headlamps of varying brightness and colours for both steam and diesel so there are many options available.

[Neil]

Here are some images of the Imerys Sentinel at Burngullow that I took on another work-related visit a couple of weeks ago (it was still raining there!). This one looks to have rather more open sides than the Hornby example, but would, I imagine, be a fairly straightforward conversion. The wheelbase approximated at 6' 6", based on the length of my boots!

 

Nice photos of a scruffy workhorse CK. I'm glad you've mentioned wheelbase as the latest Hornby facebook photos still seem to show the model to be shorter than should between axle centres. To illustrate I've cobbled together a comparison set of shots and extended the axle centres upwards.

 

 

Check out where the rear axle centreline bisects the cab roof on the model and real examples.

[halfwit]

According to Adrian Booth's 'Industrial Diesels' (Bradford Barton) the wheelbase should be 6'6". The rod coupled version had a wheelbase of 6'0". Of course individual locos could possibly differ.