Hornby Sentinel - including cranked version

[crazynitwit]

Where should I go about getting replacement nem pockets for the sentinel.

[Mark Saunders]

Where should I go about getting replacement nem pockets for the sentinel.

 

Try Peter's Spares in Middlesbrough!

 

http://www.petersspares.com/

[PenrithBeacon]

HSS399-Sentinal-(1).pdf

 

My experience of dismantling of one of these models tells me that the NEM pockets are integral with the chassis

[Porcy Mane]

HSS399-Sentinal-(1).pdf

 

My experience of dismantling of one of these models tells me that the NEM pockets are integral with the chassis

 

The pockets follow normal convention being separate. The pockets slot into a cast "V" recess in the chassis with the NEM 362 section of the tension lock slotting into the pocket.

 

 

HTH

 

P

[PenrithBeacon]

The pockets follow normal convention being separate. The pockets slot into a cast "V" recess in the chassis with the NEM 362 section of the tension lock slotting into the pocket.

 

HornbySenitiel-041-EditSmPockets.jpg

 

HTH

 

P

Hang on a mo! I have always been under the impression that a pocket is ‘female’ ie it is an enclosed space.

What you are describing above as a ‘pocket’ is male . If you like a male plug which goes into a female socket or pocket.

The female half of this arrangement on the Hornby Sentinel is cast integrally with the body as shown, I think, in your photo.

Regards

[Corbs]

Well in this case the coupling 'plug' goes in to an NEM 'socket' which also has a 'plug' on the back of it which goes in to a 'socket' on the loco.

[PenrithBeacon]

Well in this case the coupling 'plug' goes in to an NEM 'socket' which also has a 'plug' on the back of it which goes in to a 'socket' on the loco.

Ok but that doesn’t offer enlightenment about the use or usefulness of the term ‘pocket’ in this context.

[Porcy Mane]

Hang on a mo! I have always been under the impression that a pocket is ‘female’ ie it is an enclosed space.

What you are describing above as a ‘pocket’ is male . If you like a male plug which goes into a female socket or pocket.

The female half of this arrangement on the Hornby Sentinel is cast integrally with the body as shown, I think, in your photo.

Regards

 

Pedantry is not my thing at the moment, as it's christmas. I'm sure you know all about NEM 362. I'm sure crazynitwit understood my post. 

 

http://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/images/hornby_spares/x9289.jpg

 

Compliments of the season,

 

P

[PenrithBeacon]

Clearly you are every bit in ignorance of what it is that constitutes the NEM Pocket as I am.

I suspect that it is the rectangular feature shown in your photo. I’ll search on the web later

[bigherb]

Jees, I just thought he wanted the X9289 coupling pack.

http://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/hornby_spares/x9289_hornby_spares_nem_coupling.htm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwdqGyran2AIV4p3tCh0jfwDeEAYYASABEgJGfPD_BwE

[jonhall]

NEM 362 specifies the size of the pocket, the height of the pocket and how far back it is from the buffer faces, so what the British talk about when we talk about a NEM pocket probably isn't technically in compliance with it anyway...

 

https://www.morop.eu/downloads/nem/de/nem362_d.pdf

 

Interestingly all the 'British' applications seem to have mounted their pocket into a similar (and astonishingly compatible -except for the height) into a further 'dovetail' device that looks at first glance like it should follow NEM363 - except it doesn't - its at least twice the size

 

https://www.morop.eu/downloads/nem/de/nem363_d.pdf

 

Jon

[Porcy Mane]

NEM 362 specifies the size of the pocket, the height of the pocket and how far back it is from the buffer faces, so what the British talk about when we talk about a NEM pocket probably isn't technically in compliance with it anyway...

 

https://www.morop.eu/downloads/nem/de/nem362_d.pdf

 

Interestingly all the 'British' applications seem to have mounted their pocket into a similar (and astonishingly compatible -except for the height) into a further 'dovetail' device that looks at first glance like it should follow NEM363 - except it doesn't - its at least twice the size

 

https://www.morop.eu/downloads/nem/de/nem363_d.pdf

 

Thanks Jon,

 

I was going to link to those documents but as Big Herb said, crazynitwit was "only after a set of couplings" so I thought better of it and just posted the link to the photograph on the NewModellers Retail Site*. Thanks to your post at least one member of the forum should be better educated regarding NEM-362.

 

*They always seem to to be waiting for stock on loads of items. As stated earlier Peters spares is a good bet:

 

http://www.petersspares.com/Hornby-x9289-nem-couplings-pockets-pk10-in-pack.ir?cName=spares-Hornby-x9-coded-spares

 

or if Mr  Crazynitwit would care to PM me his home addy I will stick some of my spares in the post for him. I'm a 3 link & screw kinda chap.

 

P

[PenrithBeacon]

There is more, a lot more, to railway modelling than NEM pockets. I always remove them from my RTR purchases as I much prefer Dinghams.

I would imagine for those whose preferences are different to mine spare items are available pretty cheaply

[bigherb]

R3577 Graham has landed.

[PenrithBeacon]

I’ve just had a reply from Ultrascale re my query on the availability of EM & P4 wheels for this model.

Basically it says forget it! More politely than that it is true but the gist is there

[Porcy Mane]

I’ve just had a reply from Ultrascale re my query on the availability of EM & P4 wheels for this model.

Basically it says forget it! More politely than that it is true but the gist is there

 

What's the problem. The loco must be one of the most simple to convert into P4 using basic hand tools, some 3mm tube, a dab of glue and some aftermarket wheelsets.  A couple of hours graft (less after you've done your first one) should see the job a good un. 

[PenrithBeacon]

What's the problem. The loco must be one of the most simple to convert into P4 using basic hand tools, some 3mm tube, a dab of glue and some aftermarket wheelsets. A couple of hours graft (less after you've done your first one) should see the job a good un.

Well yes, that’s what I thought too. After I got over the hubris reality dawned.

 

The problem is one of concentricity. I firstly tried to make up axles using brass tubes but they weren’t good enough. Then I hit on using EMGS shouldered axles and they are brilliant but that just isolated the real issue, one of re-using the Hornby pinion.

 

The problem with the Hornby pinion is the depth of the splines. These are very deep indeed and although it’s easy enough to tap the axle through the pinion (you mustn’t turn it, doing so will destroy the I/D) the splines leave huge grooves in the bore which lack concentricity. Running a reamer through it makes it worse.

 

I’ve looked on eBay, Ultrascale and Branchlines and they don’t do replacement pinions so I’m stuffed.

 

Once I have got over this problem there’s the minor issue of moving the side frames out. Not a big deal really but the axle boxes will be slightly out of the loading gauge. You can’t thin the side frames enough to avoid moving them out: there isn’t enough material on them.

 

I’m going to look at the possibility of using a Black Beetle motor bogie instead. I have two in stock and although these have 14mm wheels rather than the 12mm the model requires it will do to prove the concept or not.

 

As you might gather, I’m having fun with this conversion!

 

Regards

Edited February 28, 2018 by PenrithBeacon

[Gordon A]

I’ve just had a reply from Ultrascale re my query on the availability of EM & P4 wheels for this model.

Basically it says forget it! More politely than that it is true but the gist is there

 

I may have a set of Ultrascale P4 wheels going spare.

Be aware that they are thinner than say Gibson P4 wheels.

I am waiting for a friend to turn down some 2mm bar on the ends of three mm bar so I can fit Gibson wheels to my Sentinel.

 

Gordon A

[2mmMark]

Well yes, that’s what I thought too. After I got over the hubris reality dawned.

 

The problem is one of concentricity. I firstly tried to make up axles using brass tubes but they weren’t good enough. Then I hit on using EMGS shouldered axles and they are brilliant but that just isolated the real issue, one of re-using the Hornby pinion.

 

The problem with the Hornby pinion is the depth of the splines. These are very deep indeed and although it’s easy enough to tap the axle through the pinion (you mustn’t turn it, doing so will destroy the I/D) the splines leave huge grooves in the bore which lack concentricity. Running a reamer through it makes it worse.

 

I’ve looked on eBay, Ultrascale and Branchlines and they don’t do replacement pinions so I’m stuffed.

 

Once I have got over this problem there’s the minor issue of moving the side frames out. Not a big deal really but the axle boxes will be slightly out of the loading gauge. You can’t thin the side frames enough to avoid moving them out: there isn’t enough material on them.

 

I’m going to look at the possibility of using a Black Beetle motor bogie instead. I have two in stock and although these have 14mm wheels rather than the 12mm the model requires it will do to prove the concept or not.

 

As you might gather, I’m having fun with this conversion!

 

Regards

 

Have you enquired of Micro Antrieb for a gearwheel?  They may be able to manufacture an unsplined replacement.  If others are doing the same conversion, a readily available gear seems like the good thing to have.

 

http://www.kkpmo.com/

 

As a one-off, it ought to be possible to mount the gear on a lathe, bore out the centre to remove the splines and insert a bush.

 

To mount the gear, you would turn a cup that just touches the tips of the teeth, perhaps with just a tiny hint of an interference fit. This will hold the gear concentrically while the centre can be enlarged to remove the splines. The gear can be held in place during machining using cyano or even double sided tape.  It's often strong enough, particularly if the material being machined is soft.

 

Mark

[PenrithBeacon]

I may have a set of Ultrascale P4 wheels going spare.

Be aware that they are thinner than say Gibson P4 wheels.

I am waiting for a friend to turn down some 2mm bar on the ends of three mm bar so I can fit Gibson wheels to my Sentinel.

 

Gordon A

Please see PM

 

The EMGS shouldered axles are 3mm turned down to 2mm at the ends. This is what they look like with Gibson WD tender wheels and the original Hornby pinion assembled, but before the excess superglue was cleaned off.

 

Regards

Edited March 1, 2018 by PenrithBeacon

[PenrithBeacon]

Ihave sent an email to Hornby to see if they can supply extra pinions for this conversion.

[Gordon A]

Ihave sent an email to Hornby to see if they can supply extra pinions for this conversion.

 

I would be interested in some spare pinions as I have mislaid my 00 wheels.

 

Gordon A

[Leadmill]

MIne out for a spin with some different rakes.

 

I hope that Hornby will follow this magnificent model with more slightly more "niche" shunters. I for one would love a Thomas Hill Steeleman.

[Porcy Mane]

I would be interested in some spare pinions as I have mislaid my 00 wheels.

 

For the Chain drive version Peterspares do replacement wheels, axles & pinions sets but at over £15 a pop it seems a tad expensive.

 

x6894

 

http://www.petersspares.com/Hornby-x6894-sentinel-wheel-set.ir

 

P

[PenrithBeacon]

For the Chain drive version Peterspares do replacement wheels, axles & pinions sets but at over £15 a pop it seems a tad expensive.

 

x6894

 

http://www.petersspares.com/Hornby-x6894-sentinel-wheel-set.ir

 

P

I received an email from Hornby last Friday on the topic of spares for this model. The pinions are not sold separately, they are only available as part of a complete wheelset assembly.

 

Regards