Hornby Star Class

[robmcg]

9 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I'll have No.40 with it's 4-4-2 wheel arrangement please!

 

 

 

A GCR 8B for me as well please....      C4 to you modern folk. 

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by robmcg

[Coppercap]

5 hours ago, robmcg said:

For what it's worth 4021 'Dominion Monarch' was manufactured with the correct 10-spoke wheels from new, possibly 4050 too but somehow with factory changes (which must be awfully complex) we are back to 12-spoke incorrect ones...  never mind..  

 

Now will someone sell me a 4003 for under a hundred please?          

 

Yours, 

 

Living in the Past 

4021 "Dominion Monarch"?  It was named British Monarch. (No Star had the name Dominion Monarch, that was a ship...).

[robmcg]

29 minutes ago, Coppercap said:

4021 "Dominion Monarch"?  It was named British Monarch. (No Star had the name Dominion Monarch, that was a ship...).

 

Oops you a quite right.  My apologies. Crossed wires in my brain.

 

I saw the Dominion Monarch in 1954 when my uncle was moving from Wellington NZ to Sydney Aus. where for many years he was Head of Physics at Sydney Uni.  A beautiful ship.

 

4021 'British Monarch'.  Repeat.... 

[railroadbill]

My late father travelled on the Dominion Monarch when it was a troop ship during ww2.  It was a cargo liner which was originally fitted out for 500 passengers or so and ended up carrying 3500 troops on one voyage, so conditions would have been a little less than luxurious, putting in mildly....

Just been looking it up and the ship had a very successful career. 4 main diesel engines which was unusual when it was built. Back in civilian service after 1947.

[robmcg]

Yes it was a fine ship, beautiful to look at too. My Uncle Charles and Wife Yvette with young son Timothy travelled from Wellington to Sydney 1st class suite in I think 1954,  they had been on Operation Manhatten in 1945 (A bomb) and were both top physicists, he had been involved in radar installations in the Pacific Islands war which often very ugly, Midway, Coral Sea. Radar saved a lot of allied lives. NZ came very close to invasion, America saved us. FWIW my father was deemed 'essential' to stay here as our railways were overworked with many thousands of US troops and their materials.

When Charles lived at our house in the early 50s we called him 'Uncle Charlie', and when he visited in the late 50s I aged 8 or 9 yrs was admonished for calling him that .

Tim is now a fairly high profile lawyer in Melbourne Aus. 

 

None of which has to do with 'British Monarch' but since then has that stopped me doing thread drift?

 

4021 'British Monarch' is arguably the best of the Hornby Stars being equipped with 10-spoke wheels at the factory, and TMC have a weathered one at UKP141 at the moment, rather like this my brother bought a few years back, and he took a photo to which I added a background and changed to 4061 'Glastonbury Abbey'.

 

edited photo will remove if it offends.

 

 

cheers 

 

or, of you get a confused as I often am...

 

 

All I remember of the cabin was polished wood and chrome, I was nearly 4yrs and it was at the berth shown above, there were lots of toots and streamers as she moved away. Slightly unnerving at my age.

 

It would have been a squeeze with 3,500 troops on board! Indeed!  I wonder if any officers got the 1st class suites or if it was all converted?

 

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by robmcg

[Coppercap]

Dominion Monarch appears in tbe opening titles of the TV series Call the Midwife, set in the East End of London. This is the image they use:

Edited March 2, 2020 by Coppercap

[railroadbill]

Couple of good Dominion Monarch  pics,  Coppercap and Rob, very interesting.   According to wikipedia, all the prewar accommodation was removed , cabins for 525 passengers, all first class.  It was replaced  by accommodation for 142 officers and 1341 other ranks.  From the sort of comment my late father would have made, as one of the "lads", there would have been a considerable gap in the 2 standards....

Reading the rest of the article, they then just stuck more and more troops on the ship each convoy it sailed on...

 

 

 

[railroadbill]

Re the Star 12 spoke bogie wheels.   Pity about the wrong number of spokes as they are good looking wheels, very fine flanges. Actually the driving wheels on the model have fine flanges as well.

 

So I had a look and just for example  Stars and castles had 3' 2"  10 spoke bogie wheels, halls and counties had 3'  dia 10 spoke bogie wheels.  45xx had 3' 2" 10 spoke pony and trailing wheels, and that seems to have been a standard GWR wheel specification used on lots of locos.

 

My question is, did any loco use a 12 spoke bogie wheel?  What could I (theoretically) use the Star ones for?

 

 

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, railroadbill said:

Re the Star 12 spoke bogie wheels.   Pity about the wrong number of spokes as they are good looking wheels, very fine flanges. Actually the driving wheels on the model have fine flanges as well.

 

So I had a look and just for example  Stars and castles had 3' 2"  10 spoke bogie wheels, halls and counties had 3'  dia 10 spoke bogie wheels.  45xx had 3' 2" 10 spoke pony and trailing wheels, and that seems to have been a standard GWR wheel specification used on lots of locos.

 

My question is, did any loco use a 12 spoke bogie wheel?  What could I (theoretically) use the Star ones for?

 

 

The only 12 spoke wheels I have seen are on a obscure 2-4-0 crane tank No.1299

Kings also had 3' 0" 10 spokes.

The only other common size is 3' 8" used on trailing trucks on larger tank locos (and a pony on a few others) and bogies of outside framed 4-4-0 locos but still only 10 spokes

[Dave John]

Well, 12 spoke wheels did happen. Here is an "obscure" Caledonian 944 class, with the correct 10 spoke wheels on the bogie and 12 spoke on the rear pony. 

 

 

Those are all Gibson wheels. 

 

One day I will get the numberplate etched. 

[Hal Nail]

11 hours ago, railroadbill said:

My question is, did any loco use a 12 spoke bogie wheel?  What could I (theoretically) use the Star ones for?

Pub garden tables with a nice parasol?

[Opelsi]

Must get round to changing the wheels over on my 'Lode Star' (12-10 spoke).

 

Always had a soft spot for the prototype, right up there with the most elegant locos IMHO!

[bigherb]

13 hours ago, railroadbill said:

My question is, did any loco use a 12 spoke bogie wheel?  What could I (theoretically) use the Star ones for?

 

 

They seemed to be a NE/LNER thing, probably the wheels off the A3

[robmcg]

10 hours ago, bigherb said:

They seemed to be a NE/LNER thing, probably the wheels off the A3

 

Off a B17 as Hornby models them.

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by robmcg

[robmcg]

Question time.  Just bought a lovely s/h 4061 'Glastonbury Abbey' off Hattons which arrived alarmingly loose in a largish box with a single layer of bubblewrap round the engine and tender, which were rattling around in a box 4-5 inches longer than the engine,

 

but amazingly little damage in trip to NZ, one buffer fell out and one part which I cannot identify, shown below. 

 

What is the part?

 

 

 

I am well pleased regardless at about 70 pounds and runs perfectly....

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by robmcg

[PJT]

37 minutes ago, robmcg said:

What is the part?

 

Looks like the water scoop standard, Rob, from the opposite side of the tender footplate to the handbrake standard.  Or vice versa.

 

Pete T.

 

[robmcg]

4 hours ago, PJT said:

 

Looks like the water scoop standard, Rob, from the opposite side of the tender footplate to the handbrake standard.  Or vice versa.

 

Pete T.

 

 

Aha!   Thank you mightily!  I couldn't quite see how such a relatively large item could be so mysterious, and certainly checked the handbrake on the tender front, but didn't think of a water scoop standard on the driver's side.

 

I shall attend to it when I lower the fall plate, and change front wheels to 10-spoke.

 

Lovely model, certainly survived almost zero protection in a large box, banging around inside during all the movements from Liverpool to NZ  in the usual 6 days, Must be the design clever.

 

edit;  just noticed absence of smokebox door handle and lock arm, ah well,  these were missing when I bought it, checked the Hattons ad, and I hadn't noticed, so no desperate searches in packaging!   (Shades of common RTR un-packing).    It is not beyond the wit of man to replace these, or so I believe...

Edited March 6, 2020 by robmcg

[Hal Nail]

This may well have been mentioned in the preceding 71 pages but I got a book in the post yesterday which has a photo of a star with a Hawksworth tender, which it notes was not usual.

[Hal Nail]

8 hours ago, robmcg said:

It is not beyond the wit of man to replace these, or so I believe...

Real life or virtual?

[melmerby]

22 hours ago, bigherb said:

They seemed to be a NE/LNER thing, probably the wheels off the A3

Not A1/A3 or any other GN loco as far as I can see but the NER W & W1 4-6-0T/4-6-2T class had 3' 1½" 12 spoke wheels.

 

Maybe Hornby have got one of those up their sleeve?

Edited March 6, 2020 by melmerby

[robmcg]

For the total panning this model got on this forum at least because of its 'design clever' era shortcomings...  a solid cab-side handrail... it is still to me a very fine model.   I have photo-edited smokebox handles on because the factory ones were lost, and don't mind the green (heresy?).  10-spokes are also photo-edited although I have Castle wheels handy and await a set from Hornby. The Hornby B17 front wheels fitted to most Stars have better finer flanges than the 10-spoke Hornby versions, but possibly aftermarket ones would be better still?

 

Overall a very smooth engine with lots of GWR 'presence'.  I have also bought a weathered versIon for UKP56 via Ebay, a bit of luck methinks, it needs a repair to the tender connection but runs well, from 'The Weathering Works' which I don't think I have used before.

 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by robmcg

[Ozexpatriate]

10 hours ago, robmcg said:

For the total panning this model got on this forum at least because of its 'design clever' era shortcomings...  a solid cab-side handrail... it is still to me a very fine model. 

Rob, this was the whole point of the criticisms (aka panning) at the time. Hornby made a really nice model of the Star except for a small number of  really stupid*, careless** and lazy*** choices.

 

* the shelf instead of cab handrail

** the twelve spoked pilot bogie wheels

*** the fall plate glued at an angle.

 

If not for these flaws the model would have been truly outstanding. There was NO reason for this model not to be outstanding other than stupidity, carelessness and laziness on the part of the implementation by Hornby.

 

"Don't spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar".

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Ozexpatriate

[gwrrob]

2 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

 

"Don't spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar".

 

 

Absolutely, yes the Star has faults but with a bit of work it can look ok to a blind man on a galloping horse in a layout setting.

 

[Ian Hargrave]

Particularly the version you have.This has an altogether better shade of g***n I think.

[bigherb]

2 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

Rob, this was the whole point of the criticisms (aka panning) at the time. Hornby made a really nice model of the Star except for a small number of  really stupid*, careless** and lazy*** choices.

 

* the shelf instead of cab handrail

** the twelve spoked pilot bogie wheels

*** the fall plate glued at an angle.

 

If not for these flaws the model would have been truly outstanding. There was NO reason for this model not to be outstanding other than stupidity, carelessness and laziness on the part of the implementation by Hornby.

 

"Don't spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar".

 

But if Bachmann do design clever no one bats an eyelid, moudled in handrails, tender brake blocks moulded with the tender frame, gearbox mount protruding from the firebox, no tender pickups.