Hornby Star Class

[Ozexpatriate]

8 minutes ago, bigherb said:

moudled in handrails

I'm guessing that's the C class in SECR livery. Does that have a moulded cabside (horizontal) grab railing? It's hard to tell on your picture - it's blown out with the flash.

 

I actually don't object to moulded details if they look "OK". The cabside "shelf" on the Hornby Star looks awful. It is very obvious, even to a casual glance.

[bigherb]

3 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

I'm guessing that's the C class in SECR livery. Does that have a moulded cabside (horizontal) grab railing? It's hard to tell on your picture - it's blown out with the flash.

 

No just the cab hand rails, driver Fourmil has heck of a job getting in and out of the cab.

[Hilux5972]

3 hours ago, bigherb said:

But if Bachmann do design clever no one bats an eyelid, moudled in handrails, tender brake blocks moulded with the tender frame, gearbox mount protruding from the firebox, no tender pickups.

The difference is Bachmann didn’t make a huge song and dance about making a design clever range. 

[robmcg]

18 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

Rob, this was the whole point of the criticisms (aka panning) at the time. Hornby made a really nice model of the Star except for a small number of  really stupid*, careless** and lazy*** choices.

 

* the shelf instead of cab handrail

** the twelve spoked pilot bogie wheels

*** the fall plate glued at an angle.

 

If not for these flaws the model would have been truly outstanding. There was NO reason for this model not to be outstanding other than stupidity, carelessness and laziness on the part of the implementation by Hornby.

 

"Don't spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar".

 

 

I was looking at the 2-page spread early in the 2019 ? Hornby catalogue showing the bits which go together to make a Hornby Britannia, and it struck me that few people could assemble the model at all, and those who could, would take a long time.

 

How Hornby makes models of this complexity and quality for the price continues to astound me.

 

I agree the Star front wheel spoke thing and the fall plate thing are lapses but easily fixed if they worry you, and the cab handrail is not an issue when looks at from a horizontal viewpoint as in my photo a few messages back. The flanges on the front wheels and the gauge are greater compromises to my eye.

 

But that is subjective.

 

I just did a photo of 4061 renamed and renumbered 4056 (withdrawn 10/1957) and messed around with colours and perspective, but didn't touch the solid handrail... nor indeed any other detail but the front wheels, and a headlamp. Other minor editing was mostly darker colour.

 

 

Modified edited picture, will remove if asked.

 

It does illustrate how the solid rail doesn't interfere with the look of the model from some angles. Which is not to say it doesn't matter. As with BR greens, Hornby appear to be ATTEMPTING different changes and as I showed in the Princess thread a simple angle of lighting can change a viewer's opinion, as if all colours are some sort of perfect fixed hue and saturation, and are seen always in the same flat neutral light.

 

Thus while the handrail thing can be truly annoying especially when pointed out, I remain well satisfied with the Star, I must have missed all the trumpeting of design clever, all I recall was the criticism.

 

Disclaimer;  I count Paul Isles and Simon Kohler as friends, albeit distant, and think that assembly errors and design compromises are mostly a result of the British customer attitudes rather than the ability of Hornby to design make and market great models, the company is made of, in my limited experience, unfailingly good people.  

 

Look at the fuss about 42/52/72XX  GW tank engines with shock horror round axles in square holes, you'd have thought the world was ending, I have yet to see one or hear of one worn badly with this design.  

 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by robmcg
typos, addition.

[Ozexpatriate]

37 minutes ago, robmcg said:

... the cab handrail is not an issue when looks at from a horizontal viewpoint ...

I agree, but that is rarely the angle from which we view our models. It is certainly a cosmetic issue - hence the "ha'porth of tar" reference used when this model was released. 

 

It didn't help that the paint colour was also changed from what had been conventionally used to represent "GWR" green (middle chrome or Brunswick or whatever) on model locomotives to the very flat almost olive drab colour I used as a teenager to paint models of US half tracks and Sherman tanks.

 

Your digital illustration looks very nice by the way.

[lofty1966]

Nah.

Just can't live with the shelf.

[Joseph_Pestell]

6 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

I was looking at the 2-page spread early in the 2019 ? Hornby catalogue showing the bits which go together to make a Hornby Britannia, and it struck me that few people could assemble the model at all, and those who could, would take a long time.

 

 

 

If that is the case, the model is poorly designed.

 

In the days when I did quite a lot of repairs, one really noticed the difference between the good (Minitrix, Roco) and the totally shambolic (Jouef).

[60800]

Obviously it's been a fair while since it was released, but for those of you that bought the original run of Lode Star - was the LH tender lining wonky on yours? 

 

I've had two of them - the original was returned as it didn't run and I got stuck with the second as they had no more to swap it with. Both suffered with the wonky lining and I don't want to attempt to remove the wonky portion as I know nothing matches Hornby GWR lining. Unless anyone knows different? 

 

Cheers,

  60800 

[Harlequin]

To my mind the few faults are minor and the model is fundamentally very good.

 

No-one has mentioned the unrealistic coal load in recent posts... That arguably looks far worse than the handrail!

 

On the subject of the greens, I have 4013 Knight of St Patrick in 1940s "G crest W" livery and 4050 Princess Alice in 1920s "Great Western" livery. The two versions of loco green are definitely different. The 1920s green is slightly more washed out but I think that's correct because we know that more coats of varnish were applied in this period and that ageing and heating made the varnish go cloudy. (See gwr.org.uk and the Precision Paints range.)

 

Is it just coincidence that Hornby seem to have "got it right" with my two particular models or have they been striving for correct period colours all along while modellers have been wrongly expecting some sort of generic, unchanging GWR loco green???

 

P.S. Both my models have 10-spoke bogie wheels.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Harlequin

[No Decorum]

8 hours ago, robmcg said:

Disclaimer;  I count Paul Isles and Simon Kohler as friends, albeit distant, and think that assembly errors and design compromises are mostly a result of the British customer attitudes rather than the ability of Hornby to design make and market great models, the company is made of, in my limited experience, unfailingly good people.  

 

Look at the fuss about 42/52/72XX  GW tank engines with shock horror round axles in square holes, you'd have thought the world was ending, I have yet to see one or hear of one worn badly with this design.  

 

 

The attempt to reduce costs was well-motivated – there was plenty of howling about increasing prices and the good people at Hornby attempted to do something about it. It’s a shame it went rather wrong.

 

Shelf apart, the 42/52/72XXs were good in appearance apart from the paint, which wasn’t much to do with “design clever”. The latter is long gone but the paint is still a problem. It wasn’t only the axleboxes, bad idea that it was. The motors were awful. A three-pole motor can work well but the particular ones that Hornby sourced were nasty. Above all, they were inconsistent. Of the three eight-coupled tanks I have, one runs reasonably, one middling and one poor. The P2s were very hit and miss. Some seem to have been all right but an awful lot, including mine, were terrible. Adding a flywheel to mask the jerky running didn’t work. If the motors were cheap, it would have helped no end to have tested each one and discarded the poor ones.

[trevor7598]

I wouldn't try to defend the design clever era, two iconic loco's were spoilt

by cost cutting, and may never be retooled to todays high standards, namely

Cock O The North, and Duke of Gloucester.

But one, to my mind, outstanding model from that era was the 2 HAL, there

was nothing for Hornby to scan or measure the whole project must have

relied on drawings for information. The commode handles were moulded

on, but at least they are not prone to damage, and look fine.

 

I don't own a Star, but again it looks to be one of the better Design Clever models.

[truffy]

18 minutes ago, trevor7598 said:

But one, to my mind, outstanding model from that era was the 2 HAL, there

was nothing for Hornby to scan or measure the whole project must have

relied on drawings for information. The commode handles were moulded

on, but at least they are not prone to damage, and look fine.

 

Same for the 2-BIL, but I remain bitterly disappointed that the carriage handles were moulded, rather than attaining the high standard of Hornby's Maunsell carriages. They don't look fine (IMO), they really look terrible alongside their design properly brethren.

Edited March 8, 2020 by truffy

[trevor7598]

1 hour ago, truffy said:

 

Same for the 2-BIL, but I remain bitterly disappointed that the carriage handles were moulded, rather than attaining the high standard of Hornby's Maunsell carriages. They don't look fine (IMO), they really look terrible alongside their design properly brethren.

Unfortunately Hornby's side corridor Maunsells have a design flaw.

The panel joins have been omitted. This is particularly noticeable on the compartment side.

There should be three pieces of steel sheeting represented, one above the quarterlights,

one between the quarterlights and the tumblehome panel. There should be a cover strip

over the panel joins represented on the models, they are missing.

They did get this right on the open third and the restaurant car however.

[trevor7598]

The above reply has nothing to do with the Star. My apologies for going off topic.

[Steamport Southport]

13 hours ago, Harlequin said:

To my mind the few faults are minor and the model is fundamentally very good.

 

No-one has mentioned the unrealistic coal load in recent posts... That arguably looks far worse than the handrail!

 

Isn't the coal removable though? Most have been for years.

 

 

Jason

[robmcg]

I have a soft spot for Stars and regret that I didn't buy a 4003 'Lode Star' R3165 when they were first made SEVEN years ago... so I have occasionally looked on Ebay and elsewhere for a nice one.

 

Never saw any until this morning on Ebay just listed and had lots of watchers so I ought it, £120, well pleased.

 

Then while looking on Google for pictures of the model I found another, curses, only $100 and equally mint, boxed, straight...  it' like the old waiting for a bus joke, you wait for hours then three arrive at once.

 

So I bought that too.   I will think of a reason later... 

 

It will be interesting to see how quickly these reach my postal agency address in Middlesex given the sad events occurring. I imagine couriers have a lot of work at the minute.  

 

I received a blue Princess in NZ this morning and that was bought direct from a Yorkshire seller ten days ago, so the world commerce wheels are turning, albeit air travel has reduced greatly since then.

 

I had better go and lie don in a darkened room for a while...

 

 

vendor's pic,  how could you say no? 

[cctransuk]

On 07/03/2020 at 06:52, Ozexpatriate said:

 

* the shelf instead of cab handrail

** the twelve spoked pilot bogie wheels

*** the fall plate glued at an angle.

 

 

.... and these are deal-breakers for modellers? I think not!

 

* scalpel, drill, four handrail pillars, wire, dab of paint

** Markits / Gibson

*** snap, glue

 

Or am I assuming too much modelling commitment?

 

John Isherwood.

[Harlequin]

Lode Star is one of the few GWR items in the 2020 catalogue. Scheduled for autumn release.

 

[Ozexpatriate]

11 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

.... and these are deal-breakers for modellers? I think not!

 

Or am I assuming too much modelling commitment?

Which is why I kept my Star models instead of returning them. Two out of three were nonetheless totally unacceptable quality control and the other was a very poor design choice for what was a "top of the line" model as released and one that was greatly anticipated. 

 

If you recall it was also a commissioned item by STEAM. Have they commissioned an item with Hornby since then? I'm not sure.

 

Edited March 22, 2020 by Ozexpatriate

[cctransuk]

Just now, Ozexpatriate said:

Which is why I kept my Star models instead of returning them. It was nonetheless totally unacceptable quality control for what was a "top of the line" model as released and one that was greatly anticipated. 

 

If you recall it was also a commissioned item by STEAM. 

 

Of the three, only *** can be described as having any relationship to quality control; * and ** were conscious design considerations.

 

You pays yer money and you takes yer choice.

 

John Isherwood.

[Ozexpatriate]

1 minute ago, cctransuk said:

Of the three, only *** can be described as having any relationship to quality control; * and ** were conscious design considerations.

I was making an edit while you posted.

 

I maintain that the 12 spoked wheels and the fall plate pointing up at 45° were quality control issues - either in manufacture or the design approval process. The cabside shelf was a design consideration.

[robmcg]

42 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

.... and these are deal-breakers for modellers? I think not!

 

* scalpel, drill, four handrail pillars, wire, dab of paint

** Markits / Gibson

*** snap, glue

 

Or am I assuming too much modelling commitment?

 

John Isherwood.

 

I use Hornby Castle wheels, I also received a nice Email from Hornby in a response to a request from for a 10 spoke replacement bogie for recent release Star 4019 saying they will post the item when they can.

 

I wonder what proportion of Princess and Duchess buyers buy better front wheels for those models?

 

The fall plate can as you say be detached and re-set. I don't care much about the cab handrail being solid, but fully accept it was a poor attempt to save money in assembly, and looks bad from most angles.  That said, even the recent Merchant Navy 35030 has a solid inner smokebox handle, which only looks bad once you look closely.

 

I don't consider myself a modeller with any skill but I still enjoy and buy Hornby and other 00 RTR.

 

Bigger issues than those on a Star are warped running plates and wobbly or poor running, but I have had only a very few poor runners, maybe three or four from several hundred over the last 15 years, and I have tried with variable success to straighten running plates (A3s and 42/52Xx with raised section plates).

 

I'm presuming couriers and post will be slower than usual but am pleased to still be able to buy off the two shops concerned; Harrystoyshop1982 and Howes Models 

 

Cheers

[robmcg]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

Lode Star is one of the few GWR items in the 2020 catalogue. Scheduled for autumn release.

 

 

Indeed.  And I wish Hornby every success with it! 

 

 

[robmcg]

I finally received an Ebay UK purchase two days ago and I seriously suggest that this model is actually very fine, 12-spoke wheels, fall plate, cab handrail notwithstanding.  This was UKP67 plus post and NZ tax bringing it to a little over UKP100.

 

Super smooth runner, the fall plate and bogie wheels will be changed if or when I'm in the mood. The vac hose on the front fell off in transit and a lamp holder on l/h front is bent or missing, maybe I'll put a lamp there. The chimney fell off in transit too but has clipped back in sweetly.

 

Un-retouched, just cropped and re-sized.

 

 

What a superb lovely under-rated model.

 

[robmcg]

Although it contravenes my solemn promise to not put edited pics in others' threads,  here for the sake of comparison is the same photo with 40 minutes of editing , 

 

 

Will remove if asked.

 

Main changes are; vac pipe on front, coupling on front, 10 spoke bogie wheels, cylinder drains, cab handrail has light under, number plate has shadow edge, speedo thingamy by rear driver..

 

It DOES show how brilliant this would be of Hornby had done the spokes and can handrail from day one, and to be fair they still give 10 spoke bogies on request, and 4021 'British Monarch' has them from new. 

 

I won't mention fall plates, or green livery.

Edited March 25, 2020 by robmcg
added comment