East West rail, Bletchley to oxford line

[Nearholmer]

Aylesbury Vale DC and Bucks CC are both noted for their parsimony  and poor public services (unmaintained highways, bins only emptied fortnightly, iffy maintenance of school buildings etc.), and that is currently causing grumpiness with MK Council (much better public services), because AVDC has given planning consent for a whopper housing development right at the border between the two counties (MK being a unitary authority), with no intent to provide new schools or upgrade the highways ....... MK councillors have accused them of "parasiting", and similarly insulting words have been thrown the other way!

 

Strip it back, and its all part of the pressure on the rural area, with AVDC trying to keep new housing, to the edges, and protect the core ....... Buckingham has already burst out of the bypass-boundary and is fast creeping towards Padbury; Aylesbury is inching outwards along the A41; and, they fear further incursions!

 

EDIT: I checked relative council tax rates for AVDC and MK; taking Band G as an example, and allowing for variations between parishes (+/-£150pa), AVDC is marginally higher (c£2900pa vs. c£2800pa), so the difference in quality of services presumably down to the higher unit cost of serving a thinly-spread population. Cambridge City is c£3000pa for the same band, Oxford City c£3300, and Bedford Borough has such a confusing website that I can't tell what people there pay!

Edited January 10, 2020 by Nearholmer

[lmsforever]

 I am hoping that once we get our Aylesbury MK services people will  use them  this might take some of the cars off the roads but MK is very big and the station is a long way from  employment. We are okay for getting to Oxford and Watford but MK has a very slow bus service so people will try the train I hope.How long are going to be waiting for work to start on laying tracks the talking must stop soon.

[62613]

6 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

EDIT: I checked relative council tax rates for AVDC and MK; taking Band G as an example, and allowing for variations between parishes (+/-£150pa), AVDC is marginally higher (c£2900pa vs. c£2800pa), so the difference in quality of services presumably down to the higher unit cost of serving a thinly-spread population. Cambridge City is c£3000pa for the same band, Oxford City c£3300, and Bedford Borough has such a confusing website that I can't tell what people there pay!

Remeber that council tax isn't the main source of local government income. That is,or was, the central government grant. In some LAs, it was 85% of their income. Seemingly, a 1% rise in council tax in our borough raises £850 000, which is really a drop in a bucket when they've lost several tens of millions in central funding over the last ten years.

[Nearholmer]

It is the main source for the first one of the above that I googled, and although I cba to look up the others, I think they’re much the same.

 

 

[62613]

Which year is that for?

 

[Nearholmer]

Look carefully 

 

The revenue support grant has been reduced massively in recent years, and is even smaller this year.

 

The health grant is something to do with obligations to provide care homes I think, but don’t quote me on that.

[chris p bacon]

29 minutes ago, 62613 said:

Remeber that council tax isn't the main source of local government income. That is,or was, the central government grant. In some LAs, it was 85% of their income. Seemingly, a 1% rise in council tax in our borough raises £850 000, which is really a drop in a bucket when they've lost several tens of millions in central funding over the last ten years.

 

That grant went several years ago, in one year our Town council lost 10% of its budget without much warning.  The grant from Central government was reduced but the local unitary (Central Bedfordshire) didn't pass on the reduced grant, they kept the lot so that their budget remained unchanged for the first year. The local Town and Parish councils bore the brunt of the reduction with little warning.

 

[62613]

8 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Look carefully 

 

The revenue support grant has been reduced massively in recent years, and is even smaller this year.

 

The health grant is something to do with obligations to provide care homes I think, but don’t quote me on that.

That's what I said!

 

[Bernard Lamb]

50 minutes ago, 62613 said:

Remeber that council tax isn't the main source of local government income. That is,or was, the central government grant. In some LAs, it was 85% of their income. Seemingly, a 1% rise in council tax in our borough raises £850 000, which is really a drop in a bucket when they've lost several tens of millions in central funding over the last ten years.

Not only have local authorities lost the central government grant, they have also lost in other ways.

Before the 2008 crash money paid for business rates was held by the council for up to nine months.

Take my local authority for example circa £68 million.

That earnt a hefty amount of interest.

Suddenly nobody wanted £68 million as a short term loan and the council lost that money on top of the central government restrictions.

Bernard

 

[Nearholmer]

62613

 

I wasn’t intending to suggest that you didn’t know that revenue support had fallen; I was merely pointing out that council tax is the main source of income. 
 

From what I can understand, in prosperous  places council tax (domestic rates before that) and business rates have always been the main income, while in less  prosperous places revenue support was the main income, so the reduction in revenue support has hit hardest in the least prosperous places.

 

Kevin

[Davexoc]

9 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

I visited the railway centre for the first time back in the Autumn (on the way back North from Scaleforum) and was quite impressed by how bad the surrounding roads were. It looked like no repairs on them had been done since they first tarmaced back in the 30s. 

 

Bucks CC are absolutely abysmal when it comes to road repairs. I'm sure that it takes someone to claim for wheel/suspension damage before they half heartedly fill a pothole.

I'm sure that they are relying on HS2 to repair most of the roads, as I bet there is a clause somewhere that says thet must reinstate the road surfaces on completion to cover damage caused by plant and equipment during construction.

Way out the back of beyond between Haltwhistle and Alston, going via Plenmeller (Northumbria), while working in the area some years ago, I commented on the good state of the back roads to one of the locals, who replied that when all the mining was finished and the sites cleared, all the roads were repaired as part of the contract. That could be another reason why the HS2 budget is spiralling....

[ess1uk]

2 hours ago, lmsforever said:

 How long are going to be waiting for work to start on laying tracks the talking must stop soon.

Work is taking place, plenty of site offices around and tree surgeons the other day.

NR is moving as fast as it can

[corneliuslundie]

In addition local authorities are getting new expenditure with no funding to cover it. Last year Powys said that they had to find an extra £14.5 million in healthcare expenditure because of new obligations. And being a very rural county the funding formula penalises it anyway compared with the South Wales valleys.

Jonathan

[The Stationmaster]

Our town council precept on the Council Tax is to be increased by 13% in the coming financial year despite our local Councillor telling us that it would be no more than 12%.  When he advised us that it would be 13% I suggested to him that he needn't bother coming home for dinner if he had voted for a greater increase than he'd originally told us would be the case, However Mrs Stationmaster insists on continuing to feed him.

[ess1uk]

On 09/01/2020 at 21:04, Davexoc said:

 

I believe that is the start (or end) of the BRC extension to give a longer running line. They are quite happy with HS2 passing by....

 

I think in the longer term they are looking towards Verney Junction, which would make sense as it would link with EWR. The other side of that bridge is where the line diverged from the GCR.

I heard that bridge is to be rebuilt by EWR to allow the BRC to run under it

[Pete the Elaner]

On 10/01/2020 at 20:38, ess1uk said:

Work is taking place, plenty of site offices around and tree surgeons the other day.

NR is moving as fast as it can

I expect re-laying EWR is similar to widening a motorway...

Lots of talk & plenty of cones out, but no visible progress...while out of sight, embankments are being strengthened, bridges moved/rebuilt, then just as you think it will overrun, the actual widening (or in this case tracklaying) happens at a very fast rate.

I have seen no visible work at the Bletchley end or at any of the places where I cycle across the old line

[black and decker boy]

On 10/01/2020 at 20:35, Davexoc said:

 

Bucks CC are absolutely abysmal when it comes to road repairs. I'm sure that it takes someone to claim for wheel/suspension damage before they half heartedly fill a pothole.

I'm sure that they are relying on HS2 to repair most of the roads, as I bet there is a clause somewhere that says thet must reinstate the road surfaces on completion to cover damage caused by plant and equipment during construction.

Way out the back of beyond between Haltwhistle and Alston, going via Plenmeller (Northumbria), while working in the area some years ago, I commented on the good state of the back roads to one of the locals, who replied that when all the mining was finished and the sites cleared, all the roads were repaired as part of the contract. That could be another reason why the HS2 budget is spiralling....

HS2 are building Stoke Mandeville bypass and contributing funds towards other parts of the new Aylesbury orbital link road.

 

Aylesbury Garden Town (and it’s 10s of thousands of new houses) also contribute heavily to the orbital road. DfT are funding BCC for any remaining gaps.

 

its a complex web.

 

i think BCC (and the districts) struggle with low population and largely rural area which combine to low tax income but high costs.

 

the forthcoming combination of all into a single unitary Buckinghamshire Council may improve things marginally but transport isn’t a high priority when funds are limited and skools & ‘ospitals come first.

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, black and decker boy said:

i think BCC (and the districts) struggle with low population and largely  combine to low tax income but high costs.

 

Agree. That's what I was trying to say in an earlier post.

 

But, there is also something around the population of Bucks overall, and to only a slightly lesser extent Aylesbury Vale,  'getting what they vote for', in the form of County and District Councillors  who prioritise controlling tax rates (I'm trying to say that without getting 'political'; have a look at the party composition of the councils in question to get my full drift).

[lmsforever]

Our population is rising quickly you only have to witness the rise in traffic levels  rush hours into and out of Aylesbury are starting earlier and earlier .More cars  are heading towards  London and MK  traffic into Aylesbury starts getting busy rom three pm onwards  so we need better public transport here and as quickly as it can happen,East West can help but  the expansion of housing has to slow down BCC seem to be saying to house builders come on in Bucks is open or business build were you like.The new developments by and large devoid o shops schools and surgeries so  pressure is being applied to existing services .All in all the whole thing is a mess and lord knows what will happen .

[black and decker boy]

8 hours ago, lmsforever said:

Our population is rising quickly you only have to witness the rise in traffic levels  rush hours into and out of Aylesbury are starting earlier and earlier .More cars  are heading towards  London and MK  traffic into Aylesbury starts getting busy rom three pm onwards  so we need better public transport here and as quickly as it can happen,East West can help but  the expansion of housing has to slow down BCC seem to be saying to house builders come on in Bucks is open or business build were you like.The new developments by and large devoid o shops schools and surgeries so  pressure is being applied to existing services .All in all the whole thing is a mess and lord knows what will happen .

Housing targets are set by a central government formula and its government policy to expand housing across England. Any councils which fail to do the assessment and then allocate land to meet it will be swamped by developers who will win every planning application at appeal.

 

BCC are engaged with the developers to ensure the investment comes forward in the county infrastructure and also in support for bus services etc

 

In the early days of EWR, there was a big link from new housing to the reopening of stations.

[Nearholmer]

8 hours ago, lmsforever said:

The new developments by and large devoid o shops schools and surgeries so  pressure is being applied to existing services .

Spot-on, which is what caused the argument about the BCC/AVDC plan for the site at the border of MK.

 

Do these councils properly use what I think is called ‘section 106’, to recover the cost of facilities from developers, and use the money to actually build things?

Edited January 27, 2020 by Nearholmer

[black and decker boy]

8 hours ago, lmsforever said:

Our population is rising quickly you only have to witness the rise in traffic levels  rush hours into and out of Aylesbury are starting earlier and earlier .More cars  are heading towards  London and MK  traffic into Aylesbury starts getting busy rom three pm onwards  so we need better public transport here and as quickly as it can happen,East West can help but  the expansion of housing has to slow down BCC seem to be saying to house builders come on in Bucks is open or business build were you like.The new developments by and large devoid o shops schools and surgeries so  pressure is being applied to existing services .All in all the whole thing is a mess and lord knows what will happen .

Housing targets are set by a central government formula and its government policy to expand housing across England. Any councils which fail to do the assessment and then allocate land to meet it will be swamped by developers who will win every planning application at appeal.

 

BCC are engaged with the developers to ensure the investment comes forward in the county infrastructure and also in support for bus services etc

 

In the early days of EWR, there was a big link from new housing to the reopening of stations.

[Joseph_Pestell]

36 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Spot-on, which is what caused the argument about the BCC/AVDC plan for the site at the border of MK.

 

Do these councils properly use what I think is called ‘section 106’, to recover the cost of facilities from developers, and use the money to actually build things?

 

Section 106 is something of a minefield.

 

Often developers manage to reduce their s106 contribution by saying that the development would not be financially viable if they pay the amount requested. Really? Seems to me to be an accountancy trick based around an inflated value for the land.

 

But then, there have often been cases where a Council (usually County as Highways Authority) fail to spend the money within the three year period, at which point the developer reclaims the money.

[Nearholmer]

That’s what I’m hinting at: some councils are very well-practised in the ways of s106, and some aren’t.

 

Ours, fortunately, is good at it, probably because it has masses of practise.

 

We bought in a new development ten years ago and a surprisingly high % of the cost of the house was for s106 (the agreement is appended to the deeds), and the money rapidly turned into new classrooms for the primary school and part of a bigger fund that expanded the health centre.

[black and decker boy]

Also, whilst a developer can make the monies or facilities available, it’s not their role to use them.

 

for example, GPS surgeries. A developer can fund a building in their development but its up to the local NHS trust to find GPs to use it. 
 

similarly, a new school is only required if all existing local schools are full and that is at the discretion of the local education authority.

 

the flip side of this coin is that every single new house has its price inflated to cover these costs. It does not flow out of a developers bank or goodwill, it’s just a cost they pass on. I’ve worked on bypass schemes that were funded to the tune of £30k per house. Everyone )except the house buying public) wins, higher price means more stamp duty, less government grants for infrastructure etc etc