East West rail, Bletchley to oxford line

[Orion]

4 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I quite understand what Davexoc is saying ......... the Marston Vale is prime warehouse territory, with large populations in "final ten miles by electric" on the doorstep, so an additional IRFT could easily develop there.

 

Which doesn't alter my point about going to Daventry, the route to which ought to be a tad less busy post HS2, it simply adds another possibility.

 

I'm not clued-up on whether there is an East Midlands IRFT anywhere on the MML or ECML, but if there isn't now, logic would suggest that there ought to be one.

See https://www.slp-emg.com/c/rft.php

[Nearholmer]

I wish I'd spotted that business opportunity sooner!

[The Stationmaster]

22 hours ago, Arun Sharma said:

Mike - if you think of E-W Rly as being a sort of outer circle rail route avoiding London and linking [via Didcot] the GWML, OWW, WCML, MML  & ECML and going all the way to Felixstowe/Harwich then it may well be of far more interest to FOCs than passenger TOCs. Even if it carried no passengers al all beyond Bicester Village, it is still worth building as a priority.

Which of course is exactly what it was seen as c.60 years ago - complete with a plan to build a large mechanised marshalling yard at Swanbourne.  And of course a few special train movements apart the only reason it remained open between Oxford and Bletchley for as long as it did was because of its use by freight traffic.

 

And as an aside my last trip over the line - in the early 1990s - was on a Trainload Freight Inspection/Officers' Special in order to look at Bletchley flyover, and more particularly the various connections and possibility of freight facilities at Claydon, as well as a look for similar reasons over the last surviving part of the former GC connecting line towards the junction with the Joint Line at Ashendon jcn.

[Arun Sharma]

Regarding this link from Ashendon junction past Westcott towards Calvert - Its usefulness can be seen in the map segment attached. Does its reinstatement currently form part of the E-W Rly concept?

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Arun Sharma
spelling

[Pete the Elaner]

The existing line (Bedford-Bletchley) has been closed for over a week, apparently due to an issue with a level crossing.

That may sound quite embarrassing but who knows what the issues really are with this?

 

Most of the talk has been around the Bletchley-Oxford section, but once this is completed, what improvements will we see on the existing Bedford-Bletchley section?

[Zomboid]

23 minutes ago, Arun Sharma said:

Regarding this link from Ashendon junction past Westcott towards Calvert - Its usefulness can be seen in the map segment attached. Does its reinstatement currently form part of the E-W Rly concept?

 

No. Not sure what could happen to make it part of the plan, it's a parallel route to the Aylesbury to Princes Risborough line that misses all the stations (but would add Haddenham & Thame Parkway).

 

Maybe if Winslow to London fast trains are required and either of the via Aylesbury routes can't provide them?

[Nearholmer]

Arun

 

the trackbed has been used to create a reserved access road to the incinerator/generating station (pink ring), so reinstatement would involve a bit of work, also the ‘classic’ line will be to the NE of HS2 here, so a connection to the ‘classic’ route would get complicated in order to cross HS2.

 

in short, I don’t think so.

 

Kevin

Edited March 6, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Pannier Tank]

6 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

The existing line (Bedford-Bletchley) has been closed for over a week, apparently due to an issue with a level crossing.

 

Trains are running Bletchley to Stewartby and Stewartby to Bletchley.

[lmsforever]

The line to Kingswood was last used by Blue Circle fertiliser trains the track was not in good condition and watching a train passing was interesting.Back in the sixties I saw an 8f on general freight passing through but it was never busy ,further along over the A41 it  passed Westcot testing base for rockets.When a rocket was test fired you could hear it in Aylesbury eight miles away and no one took any notice.In WW11 it was a base for training bomber crews and sadly many lost their lives in recurring accidents.Now it is a high tech business park.Cant see the line ever opening again no need for it, the area has a grizly history some  years ago a murder took place in a house on the A41beside the long gone rail bridge.One of the test buildings for rockets has been preserved Blue Streak was one of the last rockets tested

[caradoc]

IIRC the fertiliser depot was known as Akeman St and was served by UKF trains. Wasn't the gas turbine converted to an electric, E2001, also stabled there for a while ?

 

[lmsforever]

Thanks  forgot the name long time ago  remember blue wagons not sure about loco.

[Nearholmer]

The fertiliser trains were still running ‘quite recently’, by which I mean I can remember seeing one in the 1980s. I think they were a trip from Bletchley, detached from a train coming from Scotland that continued south to Horsham.

[Arun Sharma]

7 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Arun

 

the trackbed has been used to create a reserved access road to the incinerator/generating station (pink ring), so reinstatement would involve a bit of work, also the ‘classic’ line will be to the NE of HS2 here, so a connection to the ‘classic’ route would get complicated in order to cross HS2.

 

in short, I don’t think so.

 

Kevin

That explains a lot Kevin - Cycling from Oxford YH to Milton Keynes YH via Brill and Winslow, the only sensible place to cross the A41 is at Kingswood as that is the only non-staggered [almost] crossing. That takes you onto an overbridge looking down on what ought to be an old railway line but actually seemed to be a straight piece of concrete stretching into the distance. Alles nun klar!

[keefer]

The Akeman Street fertiliser trains were covered in the 'Railfreight Today' DVD set - ISTR the trains involved a long propelling move as the was nowhere for the loco to run round.

[Nearholmer]

Arun,

 

when I go to Brill, I sometimes cross the A41 further south, south of Waddesdon village, where there is another ‘easy stagger’ crossover involving two minor roads ...... this is the crossing that I fear HS2 will ruin. It’s longer than Staying on NCN51, but quite scenic.

 

I’m too old and fat to do MK-Oxford and back in a day, so Brill is about my limit!

 

K

[Bernard Lamb]

56 minutes ago, lmsforever said:

further along over the A41 it  passed Westcot testing base for rockets.When a rocket was test fired you could hear it in Aylesbury eight miles away and no one took any notice.

Going even further OT.

They had the last working V2 rocket engine at one time and it was probably this that you heard. There were warning notices on the A41 about sudden aircraft noise. The base was a very secure site and the procedure for gaining entry was stricter than for many other establishments. 

Bernard

 

[Bernard Lamb]

13 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Arun,

 

when I go to Brill, I sometimes cross the A41 further south, south of Waddesdon village, where there is another ‘easy stagger’ crossover involving two minor roads ...... this is the crossing that I fear HS2 will ruin. It’s longer than Staying on NCN51, but quite scenic.

 

I’m too old and fat to do MK-Oxford and back in a day, so Brill is about my limit!

 

K

I know where you mean Kevin. This should probably be under the HS2 thread but as we have started I will carry on. Looking at the plans there will be a new bridge taking the realigned A41 over HS2 about 200m or so to the west of the staggered crossover. To use it will mean going on the A4! for a short distance, crossing the new bridge, turning left onto the, presumed to be blocked up, old road, to join the road that you want to reach some distance to the south. If they put cycle lanes on the bridges it will be OK. However as you point out it looks like a mess in the making to me. I tend to either go through the park between Waddesdon and Stone or reach the the staggered crossover by coming from Whitchurch and Oving. Not been to Brill by bike for a while and I always did hate the climb up to the village,

Bernard 

[Nearholmer]

I’ve wittered on about that particular part of the HS2 plans in another thread already, and you are right - if they don’t make good cycle provision at the roundabout, it will muck up some very good routes.

[lmsforever]

Back in the sixties I worked for GPO Telephones one morning my gang had to go to Westcot and replace telephone cables.On arrival our foreman was informed that we all had to sign the secret act  one of the lads was Irish and this caused a few problems.It was an interesting week seeing things we had never seen before on departure we were searched as wa our gang wagon think they thought we were smuggling a rocket out!

[Davexoc]

2 hours ago, keefer said:

The Akeman Street fertiliser trains were covered in the 'Railfreight Today' DVD set - ISTR the trains involved a long propelling move as the was nowhere for the loco to run round.

 

Some discussion on this thread,

 

With images at

 

http://petertandy.co.uk/Bucks&ox_page.html

[Davexoc]

On 05/03/2020 at 16:31, The Stationmaster said:

Which of course is exactly what it was seen as c.60 years ago - complete with a plan to build a large mechanised marshalling yard at Swanbourne.  And of course a few special train movements apart the only reason it remained open between Oxford and Bletchley for as long as it did was because of its use by freight traffic.

 

And as an aside my last trip over the line - in the early 1990s - was on a Trainload Freight Inspection/Officers' Special in order to look at Bletchley flyover, and more particularly the various connections and possibility of freight facilities at Claydon, as well as a look for similar reasons over the last surviving part of the former GC connecting line towards the junction with the Joint Line at Ashendon jcn.

 

Very interesting. That makes my planned layout almost plausible and a what might have been.

[The Stationmaster]

On 06/03/2020 at 10:07, Pete the Elaner said:

The existing line (Bedford-Bletchley) has been closed for over a week, apparently due to an issue with a level crossing.

That may sound quite embarrassing but who knows what the issues really are with this?

 

Most of the talk has been around the Bletchley-Oxford section, but once this is completed, what improvements will we see on the existing Bedford-Bletchley section?

Ooh heck, somewhere around about 17 years ago  I was paid £250/day (for several days ) to write all the emergency manual operating instructions for the level crossings installed under the resignalling scheme.  It was contracted out to my then employer, a signal engineering company,  because NR didn't have anybody who could understand the manufacturer's (American) technical instructions and be able to turn them into railway operating staff English along the lines of first press this then press that etc.  I do wonder if NR have got any spares for the level crossing control systems as they were distinctly non-standard?

 

Incidentally Bedford - Bletchley resignalling cost a lot of money but the line speed had to be reduced in order to save money in the scheme because of the complexity of the level crossing controls which was a consequence of the frequency of crossings on the route.

 

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/bedford-to-bletchley-railway-is-signalled-into-the-21st-century

[rodent279]

On 06/03/2020 at 17:54, caradoc said:

IIRC the fertiliser depot was known as Akeman St and was served by UKF trains. Wasn't the gas turbine converted to an electric, E2001, also stabled there for a while ?

 

Yes it was stabled there for a while, something to do with wind side wind measurements on the pantograph.

Photo below on Flickr, but there are a few more that can't be linked to because sharing is off.

https://flic.kr/p/5nUrS9

 

[Trog]

9 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Ooh heck, somewhere around about 17 years ago................................................................  I do wonder if NR have got any spares for the level crossing control systems as they were distinctly non-standard?

 

 

Interesting if you are right and the signalling is wearing out without spares after 17 years. As I seem to remember that one of the signals that got replaced had the letters LNWR cut into the base of the post. Presumably they built things to last more back then.

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, Trog said:

 

Interesting if you are right and the signalling is wearing out without spares after 17 years. As I seem to remember that one of the signals that got replaced had the letters LNWR cut into the base of the post. Presumably they built things to last more back then.

It was one of the Vaughan Harmon jobs from the era which had started with Railtrack going outside the UK to try to force down the prices from UK signalling equipment suppliers.  I think there was somethin g 'novel' about teh predictor controls for the level crossings if I remember rightly.

 

I got involved with various of these 'foreign import jobs apart from the local control instructions for the barriers on Bedford Bletchley.  I acted as a 'guinea-pig' Signalman for the ergonomics testing of another Vaughan Harmon job which was their computer based control system using VDUs that was going to be installed at Stoke as part of the phased replacement of original WCML electrification resignalling controls - very easy system to work with a brilliant design of mouse which made things very easy.  Unfortunately one thing was too easy as you could reset an axle counter to 'clear' with little more than two mouse clicks and minimal warning messages or 'think twice before you do this' procedure - that was altered before delivery to site, thankfully.

 

I also got involved doing an ISA job on the second session of site testing of signal aspect colours that were in the Ansaldo project for Manchester South resignalling - that was basically watching that a certain company involved in the test was applying its procedures correctly and that those procedures were doing the right thing.  That wasn't too difficult as one of their personnel on site had been the BR expert on signal aspect colours so he knew exactly what he was at and had the necessary procedures and testing notes to show what he was looking for.