East West rail, Bletchley to oxford line

[phil-b259]

On 03/05/2021 at 13:38, Edwin_m said:

Just visible further back, and more so on other forums, the apparent "gaps" in the beams are where the main OLE supports are, which appear to need extra height so are on some sort of shallower structure.  There are also intermediate OLE supports, which are fixed to the full-depth beams but are simpler assemblies just locating the catenary wire horizontally.  

 

I took it to be that the OLE supports within the box are temporary (i.e. they had to be put there to support the OLE before the structure was built and that as with other such 'box' structures the OLE will be fixed to the cross beams / ceiling on the finished structure.

 

Until the beams are up you can't transfer the fixings and until you have transferred the OLE you can't dismantle the previous supports.

 

Of course with the bad weather forecast for yesterday then operating cranes or trying to rig OLE may not have been an option so it could simply be work is still not finished. Similarly leaving the cranes erected may not have been an option given the stormy weather so having them safely lowered doesn't necessarily mean they are done with.

[Edwin_m]

4 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

I took it to be that the OLE supports within the box are temporary (i.e. they had to be put there to support the OLE before the structure was built and that as with other such 'box' structures the OLE will be fixed to the cross beams / ceiling on the finished structure.

 

Until the beams are up you can't transfer the fixings and until you have transferred the OLE you can't dismantle the previous supports.

It's possible, but I think if they were attaching to the main beams they would have put those in first and done the attaching, then the remaining beams could have gone in at leisure.  If they've installed temporary supports then they will have to get the crane back to lift in the missing beams in a future possession.  And if it's all within one long possession then there'd be no need for temporary supports, just tie the wires back to something to keep them out of the way.  

[rodent279]

8 hours ago, 1E BoY said:

The large cranes were getting readied to move on. The box awaits its decking and this morning had trains travelling through it. An impressive weekends work - well done the yellow army for getting completed before the horrendous weather set in yesterday.

 

I look forward to being on a train going over it! I managed to do the old one both ways whilst acting as a steward on a railtour in the 1980s organised by the Area Manager, Watford.

I was on that tour. 10 Counties Railtour, 12th May 1984, St Pancras-Marylebone via various places, including Bedford St Johns, Sharnbrook Goods, Leicester, Wallsall, Northampton & Aylesbury. Organised by Graham Burling & his team. I've got the ticket as well somewhere.

And stupidly, I didn't take me camera with me! The one opportunity I had to take some photos from on the flyover, and I messed up!

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by rodent279

[Zomboid]

10 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

took it to be that the OLE supports within the box are temporary (i.e. they had to be put there to support the OLE before the structure was built and that as with other such 'box' structures the OLE will be fixed to the cross beams / ceiling on the finished structure

I don't know about bletchley, but in general it's preferable to have single purpose structures where possible. If the OLE loading is transferred to the bridge, then it requires a lot more people involved to do anything, whereas with the OLE being completely independent it becomes a simpler matter to look after both the bridge and the wires.

[phil-b259]

6 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

I don't know about bletchley, but in general it's preferable to have single purpose structures where possible. If the OLE loading is transferred to the bridge, then it requires a lot more people involved to do anything, whereas with the OLE being completely independent it becomes a simpler matter to look after both the bridge and the wires.

 

But a bulky concrete box tunnel structure, once built, is not going to need attention from anyone!  Its not even as though its going to have a 3rd party building or anything stuck on top either. As such it shouldn't be an issue if OLE supports are attached to it.

[Grovenor]

Not to mention that the photo above clearly shows lots of OLE supports attached to the structure!

[Ryde-on-time]

A picture showing progress on the new Salden Lane bridge near Mursley. Looks  like it would be fit to carry a motorway despite the lane only seeing the odd vehicle and horse each day!
 

[Nearholmer]

I get the impression that The Queen’s Speech today signalled the revving-up of bulldozers, preparatory to covering that pleasant corner of our fair land with houses, and that the bridge is being built to accommodate the resulting influx of traffic.

[Davexoc]

Could it be something linked to this proposal?

 

https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/people/planning-appeal-build-brand-new-estate-milton-keynes-should-be-withdrawn-say-councillors-3016392

 

 

[1E BoY]

Over the past couple of weeks there has been considerable activity on the embankment behind Cottingham Grove, Bletchley. 

 

The machine on the left was inserting metal girders into the embankment site so they stand upright and appear to be consistently spaced out. They are forming some type of barrier line (sound or safety?).

[D826]

10 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I get the impression that The Queen’s Speech today signalled the revving-up of bulldozers, preparatory to covering that pleasant corner of our fair land with houses, and that the bridge is being built to accommodate the resulting influx of traffic.

Good spot there Nearholmer.  Your radar for incoming missiles working well sir.  Its an Exocet and its been on the screen for a little while this one.

 

The Queens speech includes fundamental reform to the planning system which since 1947, hasn't served this country badly, notwithstanding increased and endless political interference for the last 40 years, the last 10 particularly. When it started out there was political honesty about policies of restraint being balanced by growth ie New Towns (the mark 1 crop plus MK) and  expanded towns,of which Aylesbury was one - my folks went there from the smoke in 66).  Discussion has become confused as the Green Belt has become conflated with a no development ever anywhere in the eyes of the public and media and some politicians keen to appeal to populism rather than lead healthy debate.  That definitive, never change role for Green Belt was never the intention but now the planning system itself is blamed for 'under delivery's of housing.  Affordability of housing is a whole additional issue.

 

So, of course, things must change (apparently) - and because few care that change is easy to achieve, maybe.

 

Not as loved as the NHS,  though born at the same time and with the public interest at it's heart - in the long lost days of post war social optimism and responsibility. 

 

In the words of Joni Mitchell "don't it always seem you know that you don't know what you've got till it's gone".  It is my friends 'a big deal'.  Still it's got to get through the Commons and the Lords first and is already arousing opposition from within the ranks of Conservative MPs.

 

Keep your eyes on it because this could affect you - and don't complain to Councils as Local Planning Authorities after the event.  They will simply be doing their best to accommodate the latest, admittedly seismic, change to Local Plan and decision making emanating from Westminster.

 

Yup, a betting man might conclude that some locations on EW rail would make ideal places for new development at scale. Timescales and the process around delivery of the Local Plans , what issues they can cover and an assumption  of planning permission in principle in areas identified for growth will massively foreshorten time for delivery.  Whether that's good or bad depends on the detail and your point of view.

 

 Delivery mechanisms and even strategic planning frameworks cross administrative District and County boundaries are making a comeback.  (Structure Plans long gone and Regional spatial strategies out of vogue since 2012 - but everyone's realising its a bit silly without a broader view). 

 

Interesting times. (Allegedly).  Google Abercrombie's London Plan - its thought provoking.

 

Best regards

 

Matt W

[Nearholmer]

As usual, this will work, or not work on the detail.

 

Two mega-important details:

 

- whether or not the process that designates “growth” areas is truly consultative (big danger that people will fail to engage with it, because ‘zoning’ is too abstract a process to get excited about); and,

 

- whether or not within “growth” areas local authorities are able to enforce decent provision of services, green spaces, schools etc etc.

 

Im pessimistic, but then I often am.

 

 

[cctransuk]

35 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

- whether or not within “growth” areas local authorities are able to enforce decent provision of services, green spaces, schools etc etc.

 

In my experience of Cornwall Council, they make no attempt to do this now!  Just a mad rush to allocate development land to get the government off their backs. Medical and dental provision is already virtually non-existent - and was so pre-Covid. Now that Cornwall Council has gone Conservative, they'll be even keener not to rock the Central Government boat.

 

...... and, amid all this house-building frenzy, the price of property is still way beyond the means of even the most optimistic of local young people.

 

John Isherwood.

[Nearholmer]

In the area under discussion here, things seem to be polarised: Milton Keynes council has got a pretty good record in this respect, possibly as a legacy of the old Development Corporation, possibly because its long been a "hung" council, so the councillors* are on their toes, so they secure good Section 106 monies from developers, and get schools, surgeries etc built; Bucks CC/AVDC don't seem so good at it, and one of the big arguments about the Salden Chase development is that they zoned it right at the edge of their area, on the border of MK, the accusation being that they are attempting to "parasite" on MK.

 

There's been a lot of development just north of Aylesbury, and south of Buckingham, and what I don't know is whether Bucks CC and the AVDC did a good job on those. Ditto whether Mid-Beds are working all the right angles in Marston Vale.

 

*The councillor who is really mega-smart on all this lost his seat last week though, so I hope there are others to take-up the baton.

[Mike Storey]

A bit OT, but I thoroughly agree with the above posts. Particularly because there is so much Brown Zone development that could be done - there are huge numbers of planning consents not yet delivered after many years of consent being granted, and of course, Covid will no doubt change how town and city centre sites are used.

 

As for East West Rail, if this is a prerequisite for mass development where it simply is not warranted (on the scale envisaged), then I suspect we have been sold a pup.

[corneliuslundie]

Builders need to make money so they will build where and when they can make a profit. The last thing they want to see is house prices drop. Yes, they may agree to some "affordable" housing (affordable to whom. by the way?) as a condition of a consent. I am not blaming them. They are running businesses and like everyone else have mouths to feed and often shareholders to satisfy. But that is the way it works and no amount of freeing up the planning system will produce more low cost housing or lower prices. Unfortunately.

Jonathan

[Nearholmer]

Yep. House-builders carefully manage things so that prices are always at the very outer-edge of affordability, and will always seek to maximise their return, and externalise as many costs as possible. That's why we need a planning system with teeth, and local authorities ready, willing, and able to deploy it for the public good, and why, if we genuinely want to decrease housing costs (and I'm never sure whether the public at large really does, or really doesn't, want that), then that will have to be done using "non commercial" approaches - home-building funded by tax revenues.

 

Off my soap-box, and back to railways.

[corneliuslundie]

Simple: if you own a house you want prices to rise. If you don't you want them to drop.

Is it a peculiarly British phenomenon? I understand that even in the USA there a large proportion of housing which is rented - and there are also stories of those in the US who bought their "retirement homes" before retirement on out of town housing estates and now find that they are isolated there once they can't drive, and the houses won't sell. And I believe that in France and Germany there is also a much higher proportion of renting though it is changing.

Of course this is nothing to do with railways, except that as one ages it is wise to buy a house near a station.

Jonathan

[Nearholmer]

18 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

Simple: if you own a house you want prices to rise. If you don't you want them to drop.

 

I agree that is the way that many/most people see it, but I'm far from completely certain that it is truly in the interests of most home-owners (many of whom are, of course, mortgaged) for prices to continually rise. It is actually quite a complex question as to who it benefits, and who it doesn't, and what it does to the broader economy.

[Edwin_m]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

 

I agree that is the way that many/most people see it, but I'm far from completely certain that it is truly in the interests of most home-owners (many of whom are, of course, mortgaged) for prices to continually rise. It is actually quite a complex question as to who it benefits, and who it doesn't, and what it does to the broader economy.

The people who benefit are generally older and wanting to downsize or pass the money on to their families.  Other people may feel good because they are on paper richer, but if they sell their houses they will have to buy another one or rent, both at prices inflated by property values.  These groups of people are more likely to vote than the ones who lose out.  

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

I agree that is the way that many/most people see it, but I'm far from completely certain that it is truly in the interests of most home-owners (many of whom are, of course, mortgaged) for prices to continually rise. It is actually quite a complex question as to who it benefits, and who it doesn't, and what it does to the broader economy.

Yes, but if you're climbing the political greasy pole, what matters to you is not what long-term effect you have on the economy but what perception the electorate will have of any policies you manage to implement by the date of the next election.  If you offend too many NIMBYs or house-owners you'll be slung out.  Thatcher was popular with the electorate because a lot of tenants (many of whom traditionally voted for the other lot) became house owners.  The long-term consequence that we've now run out of council houses for those who need them is that we now have an even bigger housing crisis for the less well-off.   

 

I have a very low opinion of the current planning process, but it's not an easy problem to solve.  The suggestions in the press that the government will more or less make a bonfire out of planning controls and let builders do what they want except in areas designated otherwise also don't really sound like they will work.  If you let builders put up a lot of houses ("affordable" or otherwise) wherever they want but fail to force the building of sufficient shops, schools, pubs, community centres & industrial units, etc needed by the additional residents there will be all sorts of other problems. 

 

The new town of Cambourne (to come back to topic) has a problem that the (only) doctor's surgery doesn't have enough GPs - an NHS quota is calculated annually based on the population size, but  they aren't allowed to hire more until the calculations are done again next year.  Meanwhile residents are not allowed to register with other GPs in the area.  I speak from personal experience, and I appreciate the assistance we had from the former MP who unfortunately decided to withdraw from national politics for personal reasons.

[Davexoc]

Current works around the aquaduct between Swanbourne station and Whaddon Road bridge, appear to be concentrating on drainage. At least that is what I assume all the black pipework being laid along the trackbed is for....

[ess1uk]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-56988231
 

news articles 

[1E BoY]

This late evening view shows that work behind houses in Cottingham Grove, Bletchley has progressed since the last report on 11th May. The posts are now being installed on a daily basis.

[chris p bacon]

There is nothing like some good quality journalism.

 

From the local free paper.

 

Comes this front page piece.

 

And this is nothing like good quality journalism.....