Electric Locos 20001 -20003

[Strathwood]

They were each made using a Mk 1 around May - July 1981. Makes no difference which one.

 

Are you perhaps asking how it was make? If so then I could try to explain with the help of a couple of photos.

 

Cheers

 

Dave.

I too would be interested in how the three locos were born please.

 

Kevin

[number6]

A thread about these locos pops up every so often - I think Heljan should take note - I still haven't finished my pair which are probably six years in the making now. There is a set of photos of their construction so far on Flickr here if interested. I used the NNK 'kit' as a basis as illustrated earlier but the rest has been a scratch build and bodgefest. A simple box at first glance all three of these locos had endless changes of detail and livery making them really characterful.

 

Researching their working diagrams shows them to have been intensively used. They ran light long distances light engine between Chichester, Three Bridges, Newhaven and Victoria in the course of a diagram shuttling between freight and boat train duties. That is why you find many images of them on their own out on the mainline. And they were on the move almost all of the time. I think the Southern Region got true value for money out of these things.

 

Discussions on SEMG recently talked of the early Southern electrification for the Hastings Line - using a production batch of these locos - which in part explains the restriction 0 body size. Alternative history scenario with some of these and red and cream Hastings gauge sets on the Tonbridge line alongside Schools and older SECR locos would make a nice project.

[dasatcopthorne]

Hi Dave

I meant to ask how they were made - any info great fully received as I would like to do a model of the early version.

Regards

Ben

 

Ben.

 

Found some shots I took during the building of 20001 and CC2. They were both built in the same manner.

 

Obviously, you will want to use the drive unit from a modern loco, Class 45 or 40. Remove the front pony and cut back the sideframes to just in front of the first axelbox spring hangers.

 

Unusually for me, the model was painted after the sides were affixed. They are cut from 15thou shellacked card.

 

A better idea of the general method can be found in a thread I did on building Parcels Car 68000. You'll find it in RMweb if you search.

 

 

 

The body has been prepared. The chassis shorted and the roof (also shortened) fixed to the ends after having the sides removed all except a 2mm portion just below the rain strip. With the ends/roof now being one item, flat 1.5mm Perspex has been fitted to form a box. This sits against the 2mm of remaining side below rain gutter and on top of the solebar.

 

The bogies have been cut from a Mainline Peak, retaining the bits of the 'floor' containing the bogie mounts.

 

Blocks of Plasticard have been built up replacing the missing portions of the roof, ready to be formed into domes.

 

A pantograph well has also been cut out and sides and floor fitted to the apperture.

 

A large centre cross piece has been left in place as well as a couple of others to support the bogies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A test fit of the bogies.

 

 

 

 

Card sides have been drawn up and cut out.

 

Also a strip of plasticard has been fitted to the lower edge of the solebar to form the girder shape.

 

 

 

 

The other side, now with the domes formed and the front windows cut out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finished.

 

The vents in the sides of the roof were a complete nightmare to cut out!! The Lima roof material is VERY brittle.

 

 

Hope this helps a bit.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[Arun Sharma]

This is the test build of the 7mm version of 20003 as produced by Radley Models - complete with Markits Spencer-Moulton HD buffers and a Judith Edge N-S pantograph. The centre roof section containing the pantograph hasn't been glued in place as this particular model will be a stand demo one and thus regularly in transit - with the pantograph and roof bit securely packed in bubblewrap!

Transfers for this scale and period [1957-63ish] are readily available from Fox and they even produce the number sets. Not a difficult kit to build - basically just adding various lost wax bits to some large resin castings. The build has been photographed all the way through and will form the instruction sheets and probably also a downloadable *.pdf in due course.

[Indomitable026]

Ben.

 

Found some shots I took during the building of 20001 and CC2. They were both built in the same manner.

 

Obviously, you will want to use the drive unit from a modern loco, Class 45 or 40. Remove the front pony and cut back the sideframes to just in front of the first axelbox spring hangers.

 

Unusually for me, the model was painted after the sides were affixed. They are cut from 15thou shellacked card.

 

A better idea of the general method can be found in a thread I did on building Parcels Car 68000. You'll find it in RMweb if you search.

 

 

20001 Build001.jpg

 

The body has been prepared. The chassis shorted and the roof (also shortened) fixed to the ends after having the sides removed all except a 2mm portion just below the rain strip. With the ends/roof now being one item, flat 1.5mm Perspex has been fitted to form a box. This sits against the 2mm of remaining side below rain gutter and on top of the solebar.

 

The bogies have been cut from a Mainline Peak, retaining the bits of the 'floor' containing the bogie mounts.

 

Blocks of Plasticard have been built up replacing the missing portions of the roof, ready to be formed into domes.

 

A pantograph well has also been cut out and sides and floor fitted to the apperture.

 

A large centre cross piece has been left in place as well as a couple of others to support the bogies.

 

 

 

20001 Build002.jpg

 

20001 Build003.jpg

 

20001 Build004.jpg

 

A test fit of the bogies.

 

 

20001 Build005.jpg

 

20001 Build006.jpg

 

Card sides have been drawn up and cut out.

 

Also a strip of plasticard has been fitted to the lower edge of the solebar to form the girder shape.

 

 

 

20001 Build007.jpg

 

The other side, now with the domes formed and the front windows cut out.

 

 

 

20001 Build008.jpg

 

20001 Build009.jpg

 

20001 Build010.jpg

 

20001 Build011.jpg

 

Finished.

 

The vents in the sides of the roof were a complete nightmare to cut out!! The Lima roof material is VERY brittle.

 

 

Hope this helps a bit.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

Now that's proper modelling.....

[Arun Sharma]

That's an interesting point of view Indomitable026. I did say that I had carried out the test build of a new kit - I had assumed that most people reading this forum would realise that test builds of new kits are done by the designer. After all who else would know the designer's intent!

Are we all to assume from your comment that you consider kit design and subsequent test building a rather less worthy activity in the great scheme of things than kit conversions?

If so, then you might find yourself in a tiny minority in this forum and I shall happily carry on designing kits and RTR for others to sell.

 

Ted675 - not my real name of course

Edited July 16, 2014 by ted675

[pete_mcfarlane]

When you say '7mm version', does this mean there's a 4mm version as well?

[Enterprisingwestern]

That's an interesting point of view Indomitable026. I did say that I had carried out the test build of a new kit - I had assumed that most people reading this forum would realise that test builds of new kits are done by the designer. After all who else would know the designer's intent!

Are we all to assume from your comment that you consider kit design and subsequent test building a rather less worthy activity in the great scheme of things than kit conversions?

If so, then you might find yourself in a tiny minority in this forum and I shall happily carry on designing kits and RTR for others to sell.

 

Ted675 - not my real name of course

 

Bit harsh I think there "Ted" old boy.

Sometimes though, the designer is the last person who should test build a kit, because he is the only one who knows his intent.

Everybody else who then buys the kit doesn't necessarily know the designers intent.

 

Mike. - My real name of course.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Enterprisingwestern

[decauville1126]

When you say '7mm version', does this mean there's a 4mm version as well?

I'm a bit confused here too!

 

A bit back in this thread were the first 3D bits for 20003 which was methinks a 4mm one. I was one of those who expressed an interest in purchasing when it reached fruition. So is this a case of where the value in CAD work is that with minor tweaks a variety of scales can be outputted. 

 

With apologies for drifting, we also have what seems to be 20001 or 20002 on Ajay Models and also Radley Models sites (both 4mm scale). And then Marc Models announced 4mm Waterloo & City stuff which may be the same in 7mm, also on Radley Models site. Or maybe not?

 

Confused of Sussex (or is it just the hot weather?)

[Oldddudders]

That's an interesting point of view Indomitable026. I did say that I had carried out the test build of a new kit - I had assumed that most people reading this forum would realise that test builds of new kits are done by the designer. After all who else would know the designer's intent!

Are we all to assume from your comment that you consider kit design and subsequent test building a rather less worthy activity in the great scheme of things than kit conversions?

If so, then you might find yourself in a tiny minority in this forum and I shall happily carry on designing kits and RTR for others to sell.

 

Ted675 - not my real name of course

I do not understand this post. Damian Ross was commenting on DAS's model, hence he quoted the item in full. He did not comment on your model at all. What is the problem?

[SRman]

That's an interesting point of view Indomitable026. I did say that I had carried out the test build of a new kit - I had assumed that most people reading this forum would realise that test builds of new kits are done by the designer. After all who else would know the designer's intent!

Are we all to assume from your comment that you consider kit design and subsequent test building a rather less worthy activity in the great scheme of things than kit conversions?

If so, then you might find yourself in a tiny minority in this forum and I shall happily carry on designing kits and RTR for others to sell.

 

Ted675 - not my real name of course

 

 

Bit harsh I think there "Ted" old boy.

Sometimes though, the designer is the last person who should test build a kit, because he is the only one who knows his intent.

Everybody else who then buys the kit doesn't necessarily know the designers intent.

 

Mike. - My real name of course.

 

I think that both of these points of view are right. 

 

The designer has to build the kit to ensure everything goes together as it should and also to compose the instructions.

 

Someone else not connected should also do a test build (or two) to see if the designer has missed anything or left unclear/ambiguous instructions, or just made assumptions (easy to do when you are too close to a project).

 

Having both things occur should ensure the best possible result from the kit and its instructions.

[dasatcopthorne]

That's an interesting point of view Indomitable026. I did say that I had carried out the test build of a new kit - I had assumed that most people reading this forum would realise that test builds of new kits are done by the designer. After all who else would know the designer's intent!

Are we all to assume from your comment that you consider kit design and subsequent test building a rather less worthy activity in the great scheme of things than kit conversions?

If so, then you might find yourself in a tiny minority in this forum and I shall happily carry on designing kits and RTR for others to sell.

 

Ted675 - not my real name of course

 

I really don't understand this post.

 

Where does 'kit conversions' come into it??

 

Dave

Confused in hot West Sussex.

[Enterprisingwestern]

I'm a bit confused here too!

 

A bit back in this thread were the first 3D bits for 20003 which was methinks a 4mm one. I was one of those who expressed an interest in purchasing when it reached fruition. So is this a case of where the value in CAD work is that with minor tweaks a variety of scales can be outputted. 

 

With apologies for drifting, we also have what seems to be 20001 or 20002 on Ajay Models and also Radley Models sites (both 4mm scale). And then Marc Models announced 4mm Waterloo & City stuff which may be the same in 7mm, also on Radley Models site. Or maybe not?

 

Confused of Sussex (or is it just the hot weather?)

 

"My" 20003 is 4mm scale.

Hope that deconfuses you a little bit Dave.

 

Mike.

[Indomitable026]

Think you've read into my comments far too deeply.

 

I was merely admiring the skill and effort going in.

 

No matter.

[dasatcopthorne]

"My" 20003 is 4mm scale.

Hope that deconfuses you a little bit Dave.

 

Mike.

Mike.

 

I know yours is a kit but

I still don't understand where the 'kit conversions' comes into it.

Or am I missing something?

 

Dave

[Enterprisingwestern]

Mike.

 

I know yours is a kit but

I still don't understand where the 'kit conversions' comes into it.

Or am I missing something?

 

Dave

 

Afraid you need the mysterious ted675 to enlighten you on that one Dave, got me a tad perplexed as well.

 

Mike.

[montyburns56]

20001 and 20002 Brighton

 

 

[Re6/6]

This was built from an MTK wrapper (awful thick things!).

 

20003 was fitted to a modified Bachmann CL37 chassis which are either 1mm too long or too short (can't remember which!) but good enough for me.

 

  

Judith Edge etched pan

 

20002/CC2 is also built from an MTK wrapper this time with the original cast ends. The horrible lumpen cast solebars will be replaced with nice sharp edged brass channel.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Re6/6

[pete_mcfarlane]

15 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

20001 and 20002 Brighton

 

 

I think both the locos were withdrawn at that point. I do wonder if they were deliberately dumped there for people to take photos and/or pay their last respects. 

[number6]

Nice photo. They were often stabled in the middle road at Brighton. Here is the third one on two different occasions. With one or other of the others behind.

I have seen a colour photo of the same pair here with an ED where the adverts in the background are different. Was the stabling point at Brighton built about this time? Not sure it was electrified though...

[number6]

This is particularly nice...

 

[Sandhole]

On 30/07/2021 at 09:35, Re6/6 said:

This was built from an MTK wrapper (awful thick things!).

 

20003 was fitted to a modified Bachmann CL37 chassis which are either 1mm too long or too short (can't remember which!) but good enough for me.

 

  

Judith Edge etched pan

 

20002/CC2 is also built from an MTK wrapper this time with the original cast ends. The horrible lumpen cast solebars will be replaced with nice sharp edged brass channel.

 

 

 

 

What an excellent job. I have unbuilt MTK kits for both of these, 2001 is the WM kit. Having built a Bullied Raworth from a brass MTK, I know how much work you have put in to get these results.
Regards,
Chris.

[Re6/6]

Thanks Chris.

 

20003 came as just the wrapper which was pig to work on!  It had been rolled slightly scew-whiff which was quite a faff to twist back into alignment. The cab front was made from nickel-silver and I soldered it to the shell using a gas torch as I couldn't get sufficient heat with an iron. A tad too much heat and it repeatedly fell apart! The brass that MTK had used is around 25 thou thick.

 

There were no etches for the louvres so I made them up using 1/4 round Evergreen strip.

 

 

 

 

I was fortunate to acquire the CC1/CC2 from a fellow member of the S4 Society who had made a nice job of the construction. This also fitted with a Bachmann Cl 37 chassis.

 

 

[montyburns56]

Does anyone recognise the location?

 

20002 by Geoff Dowling

 

 

[bécasse]

I suspect that it is Woodgate but I don't have a clear view looking east to compare with. The head code merely tells one that it has come down the Brighton main line and round the Cliftonville spur.