Point & Signal operating motors

[JZ]

Because I'm inherently a lazy sod, I have decided to go for power operated points and signals on the new layout. What did the real motors look like in the early 1960s ?

[LNERGE]

Because I'm inherently a lazy sod, I have decided to go for power operated points and signals on the new layout. What did the real motors look like in the early 1960s ?

Here's an oldie.. I'll take some phots of signal motors tomorrow in daylight..

 

[LNERGE]

Unfortunately i took one look at what was needed to get photo's of the three types of signal motors i have and just gave up for today. I'll have help over the weekend to tidy up a bit to get clearer pictures. My apologies, a bit under the weather here.

[LNERGE]

A BPRS signal motor.. Watch out this  is a big one, ex Cambridge 110v DC and capable of dynamic indication. The 10v DC version is not as long. Each one comes with it's own hernia.

 

 

This signal had one 10v BPRS motor and one Westinghouse motor.

 

 

My Westinghouse motor in action along with a MET V GRS solenoid disc...

 

 

I have a BPRS solenoid lower quadrant shunt and a Westinghouse Solenoid disc i can upload short movies of if there is interest.

[johnw1]

EP Point machine - Bletchley

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/8061856524/

[The Stationmaster]

Because I'm inherently a lazy sod, I have decided to go for power operated points and signals on the new layout. What did the real motors look like in the early 1960s ?

 

Please clarify regarding Region and type of signalling.  Such was the variety in use at that time that it could be one of several different types from anyone of several different manufacturers so a bit of background regarding the layout can help accuracy if that is what you're also after.

[JZ]

Please clarify regarding Region and type of signalling.  Such was the variety in use at that time that it could be one of several different types from anyone of several different manufacturers so a bit of background regarding the layout can help accuracy if that is what you're also after.

It's former GWR, now in Southern Region. New box installed about 1957, say. Period modelled, 1963-7.

[The Stationmaster]

It's former GWR, now in Southern Region. New box installed about 1957, say. Period modelled, 1963-7.

 

I would therefore say most likely to be Westinghouse point machines style M3 - the link below refers to the very similar looking M3A development of the M3

http://www.wbsframe.mste.co.uk/public/point_machines_m3.html

 

I think I might have some pics somewhere as they were quite a common type in that period and lasted for many years.  Standard Westinghouse motors would have almost certainly been used for electrically operated semaphores installed on both the Western & Southern Regions at that time. (as already illustrated above, I'll see if I have any other views which show the motor from a different angle).

[LNERGE]

A couple of views of a Westinghouse signal motor. There are different versions for upper or lower quadrant operation but it would be hard to spot in OO scale..

 

 

[JZ]

Many thanks for the photo's LNERGE and Mike for info. Much apprecieated. his will be much easier than laying all those cable and point rodding runs.

[ikcdab]

On 06/01/2013 at 08:04, JZ said:

Many thanks for the photo's LNERGE and Mike for info. Much apprecieated. his will be much easier than laying all those cable and point rodding runs.

You may not have to lay point rodding and signal cables, but you will still need cable ducting and wires snaking to the signals or points. I assume the concrete ducting runs from the signalbox to near the signals/points then heavy wiring from there...

[w124bob]

Many of the points around Manchester Victoria were air operated and switched with a very distinctive clatter, you can just make one out in the foreground, the pumphouse is behind 45108 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:45108_at_Manchester_Victoria_East_Junction_signal_box.jpg

 

[The Stationmaster]

23 hours ago, w124bob said:

Many of the points around Manchester Victoria were air operated and switched with a very distinctive clatter, you can just make one out in the foreground, the pumphouse is behind 45108 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:45108_at_Manchester_Victoria_East_Junction_signal_box.jpg

 

Victoria East used EP machines (see post above from JohnW1) .  These always shifted the switches with a very satisfactory bang and were extremely quick in operation compared with electric point machines.  Very dangerous for thefingers of an inattentive person not thinking about what they were doin.g

[Cristiano]

On 05/01/2013 at 23:38, LNERGE said:

A couple of views of a Westinghouse signal motor. There are different versions for upper or lower quadrant operation but it would be hard to spot in OO scale..

 

 

Hi everybody,

my name is Cristiano Zenato, I am an Italian engineer for the environment and the territory and I have always had a passion for railway signals.

I'm an independent researcher and I deal with the history and technique of Italian railway signaling systems.

I am the contact person for the Railway Signaling section of the National Museum of Science and Technology in Milan, and I'm an external collaborator; I'm a collector and restorer of Italian railway signals, and my mission is to bring the finds to "new-from-factory" conditions by restoring them in their total functional operation.

I kindly ask for a precious help from all the friends who read this post.

I am desperately looking for a Westinghouse electric motor (powered at 10 Vdc) to be inserted in an italian "K-type" Westinghouse signal mechanism with electric slot, very common until the years 1930-1940 in Italy and Germany, as well as obviously in England.

The patent for this device was filed in London on December 9, 1910.

The last units of these Westinghouse "K" engines in Italy worked until the 1980s.

Do you think there is any association in England where I can find this electric motor that I have been looking for for a long time but that I absolutely cannot find?
Thanks in advance to all friends who want to interact with suggestions or information in this regard!

[Trog]

On 28/02/2021 at 17:19, The Stationmaster said:

Victoria East used EP machines (see post above from JohnW1) .  These always shifted the switches with a very satisfactory bang and were extremely quick in operation compared with electric point machines.  Very dangerous for thefingers of an inattentive person not thinking about what they were doin.g

 

There were also EP point machines at Euston I was near the south portal of South Hampstead Tunnel once and the blades for the point giving access to the north end of the Rat Hole Tunnel, were obviously sitting in water as when the box put the blades over the water went several feet up into the air.

 

I also remember a poster who worked in Rugby PSB where they had a set of EP points under the box window, saying that they would drop bread between the point blades then use them to squash the rats that came for a free meal. Apparently the S&T could get quite funny about being called out to scrape dead rat out of the blades when the build up of ex-rodents prevented the points from detecting properly.

 

I was walking the Dn Independent Siding at Rugby once and I could see that the box were having problems with the lead into it from the Dn Independent, as they were repeatedly swinging the points. When I got to the points I stood between the blades and as the box swung them closed kicked the blade as hard as I could. This obviously helped the blades into position and the S&T kit detected them as closed and locked, as the hissing and banging stopped. I then walked over to the nearest signal post phone identified myself and asked if they had just cleared a problem with XXXpts by repeatedly swinging them. Then suggested that they still call the S&T to check them as next time they wanted to use them I probably would not be there to kick assist them.