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Michael Delamar

Modelling a traditional parcels train

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2366032859_9de756c14e_z.jpg?zz=1
R0798 - Manchester Victoria by BarkingBill, on Flickr

 

Id like to start a thread on Parcels trains.

the main reason being to compile info on what vehicles where used in a typical parcel train and also the best and worst of the RTR and kit built offerings of these vehicles.

my favourite era is the 1960s but these trains ran well into the 90s, I model 4mm but any scale is welcome, as are photographs of the prototype.

 

so to compile a list ill start off with

 

Bachmann mk1 full brake...

 

 

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Id like to start a thread on Parcels trains.

the main reason being to compile info on what vehicles where used in a typical parcel train and also the best and worst of the RTR and kit built offerings of these vehicles.

my favourite era is the 1960s but these trains ran well into the 90s,

 

As you say,the era is wide-ranging. In the early/mid-80's, 5M12 Glasgow-Red Bank empty newspaper trains was virtually always all bogied - mostly BR GUVs and a few BG's with a random LMS 50' BG in there - all very available in 00. Often loading to 20 vans on a Sunday via the S&C with one of the last few 40's on the front, or a CD 47 as the 40's disappeared.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ingythewingy/4483236455/

Pretty much all GUV/BG

 

It was around 1980 when there was a wholesale culling of pre-nationalisation stuff, of which LMS BG's and SR stuff seemed to be the last survivors in any quantity. Before that, almost anything goes. IIRC, the last LMS 6 wheel Stove R's were still around in the mid 70's.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

edit:

pic added

Edited by newbryford
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If modelling the 60s then a fair amount of pre-nationalisation stock was still in use. Big-4 BGs as well as things like GWR siphons and assorted CCTs add plenty of variety. I think the main key for this period is simply to avoid uniformity as the pic at the top of the thread demonstrates.

 

Just out of interest, how many vehicles can we identify? My main interest is the western so my guesses may well be wide of the mark. Working back from the loco

 

1. ?

2. CCT, maybe SR?

3. Mk1 BG

4. MK1 GUV

5. MK1 GUV

 

Any better offers?

Edited by Karhedron
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On the Manchester shot

1- LMS CCT?

 

Then I offer you a variation, subbing for a Parcels DMU at Snow Hill in 1964

 

post-9767-0-81111600-1357301631.jpg

Copyright C E Steele

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As Eric suggests No 1 looks like one of these LMS ones, Parkside kit.

 

post-7104-0-61476600-1357302849.jpg

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Hornby cover the 4-wheel and bogie SR passenger brakes, the LMS 50' van,Gresley and Hawkesworth full brakes, with the LMS CCT, SR PMV and CCT promised. All seem nice models.They also do the ex-Lima CCT, which does need some work.

Bachmann have the BR, LMS and LNER (Thompson) full brakes, also the BR GUV.

Dapol do the Fruit D.

Parkside do kits for two versions of the LMS CCT, SR PMV, CCT and BY, LNER 'long' CCT and GWR Fruit D.

Lima used to do BR CCT and GUV, LMS 42' bogie CCT and BR-built GW Siphon G- nice bodies, but the underframes and bogies were lacking.

There was quite a lot of variety into the mid-1970s; BR gradually pulled out (or was driven out) of the parcels market, so a lot of older stock went. Then, in 1980, they pulled out of the door-to-door market, leaving residual station-to-station stuff, newspapers and mails, which saw the demise of the last pre-Nationalisation stock, along with a lot of BR-built material.

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Hi All,

 

Having indulged in a little research a while back, kit built and RTR potential parcels vehicles that I COULD use for my Little Didcot collection:

 

Dia. P18*Monster No. 484 - Conversion from outside to inside framed Coopercraft kit.

Dia. P19* Python No. 565 - Parkside Dundas Kit

Dia. Y11 Fruit D No. 2913 - Parkside Dundas Kit

Dia. Y9 Fruit C No. 2862 - Parkside Dundas Kit Conversion

Dia. S10 Bloater No. 2671 - Parkside Dundas Kit Conversion

Dia. Y2 Fruit No. 47886 - David Geen Kit

Dia. Y7 Fruit B Bannana Van No. 105599 - Parkside Dundas Kit Convertion

Dia. L23* Travelling Post Office No. 814 - 247 Developments Kit

Dia. K40* Collett Bow Ended Full Brake No. 1184 - Comet kit although I will do this vehicle as preserved with one end bowed as built and one end flat + offset gangway to go with TPO No. 814. Some of these vehicles were so treated in service but not No. 1184. It gives the C & W gang a reason to restore it though...

Dia. K41* Collett Full Brake No. 111 - Comet Kit Conversion (new gutters mainly - these vehicles were also an inch different in width from the K42s* the kit is based on but life is too short...)

Dia. K45* Hawksworth Full Brake No. 316 - Hornby RTR or Comet Kit

Dia. K14* Dean Full Brake No. 933 - you can get enough bits from Shire Scenes and Dart Castings to make this one just about feasible... Unbelievably, this was still in service in the late 1950s!

Dia. O33 Churchward Siphon G bogie Milk Van - Adapted Lima RTR.

 

Diagram numbers with * are in the carriage index, those without are in the wagon index. There are a few weird ones in there but I am somewhat restricted because I am working within the confines of the GWS collection.

 

I hope this helps!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

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I have seen shots of ordinary 4 wheeled brake vans and 4 wheeled vans mixed in so they should be included and sometimes passenger stock such as BCKs

 

post-27-0-05999200-1357313617_thumb.jpgMirfield_with_eastbound_parcels_train_on_Calder_Valley_main_line_geograph-2723112-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg 26/6/1964

Edited by Michael Delamar
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Lima CCT needs new w irons as those moulded are accurate in what should be there but not necessarily the right size! ABS used to do a fine Whitemetal replacement, which I would assume is still current. Some floor chopping will be required to fit 14mm wheels, the model has always been fitted with 12mm or less.

 

New buffers would also be welcome. The body for its age holds up well, the roof can benefit from new vents again available from a few sources.

 

Can't recall if CCT should have window frames or not?

 

Abs also do some nice wma battery boxes and other gubbins.

 

Ian

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The Calder Valley photo is interesting, Michael, in that the first two vans are horseboxes. I wonder when it was taken? ABS still do all the bits for updating the CCT- one day I'll get round to doing mine,though the original Lima ones are a pain to dismantle to work on. I'm tempted to do a modified ex-LMS 42' van; the Lima one is the one with the conventional carriage roof, but there were some others done with a high arced roof, purportedly to carry aeroplanes.

Edited by Fat Controller
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Roger Chivers used to do a lot of etched brass kits for NPCS.  I've got several of the Southern ones including the bogie luggage and scenery vans, very nice they are too.  If you see any on Ebay grab them.

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My version of the early mornibng parcels train to Kingswear

 

post-7090-0-80919100-1357316958.jpg

 

A K40 BG Mk1 BG Fruit D Mink G

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Michael,

 

Have a look at Mostyn on the Barrowmore MRG site, they have some lovely parcels rakes in 4mm with all manner of different vehicles.

 

Cheers

 

Dave 

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According to an ex-railwayman friend goods brake vans were common in parcels trains because they had a stove which many parcels vehicles with guards accommodation didn't have. While vehicles like BGs were fitted for steam heating there was no guarantee they'd be in a position in the train to be supplied from the locomotive.

 

Jeremy

Edited by JeremyC
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Some of my photos of parcels trains in the 70s.

 

post-5613-0-51866400-1357328673_thumb.jpg

Swayfield Class 25 D7503 down parcels Aug 71 C673

 

post-5613-0-16018000-1357328661_thumb.jpg

North Muskham Class 31 down parcels 3rd Aug 74 C1733

 

post-5613-0-89574700-1357328667_thumb.jpg

Sandy Class 31 up parcels Aug 74 C1782

 

post-5613-0-39888700-1357328652_thumb.jpg

 

 

post-5613-0-54551100-1357328644_thumb.jpg

Boreham Class 37 up parcels April 75 C1957

 

post-5613-0-95110100-1357328656_thumb.jpg

Margaretting Hall Class 31 up parcels 19th April 75 C1989

 

post-5613-0-71200000-1357328648_thumb.jpg

 

David

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A couple of shots from the early 80s showing that ex SR and LMS NPCS was still around

 

40060 Man Vic 22 Feb 1981

post-1161-0-83966900-1357332030.jpg

 

40181 ManVic 31 May 1983

SR vans recorded as S125, S1427, S2124

post-1161-0-75661400-1357332028.jpg

 

 

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Don't forget the DMU, usually tagged on the rear of the consist, when travelling to and from works.

5A00 on the ECML was a favourite for this,

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 I'm tempted to do a modified ex-LMS 42' van; the Lima one is the one with the conventional carriage roof, but there were some others done with a high arced roof, purportedly to carry aeroplanes.

 

These came up in a thread a while back- http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/49684-a-rarely-photographed-npcs-vehicle/

and this looks as if it might be the 'aeroplane van' version. http://www.flickr.com/photos/david_christie/6404229321/in/set-72157626818480878

 

IIRC, the volume of the Essery & Jenkinson LMS Coaching Stock books covering NPCS refers to them as aeroplane vans- Funnily enough, it's a conversion I've had at the back of my mind for a few years but have never got round to as well.

Apart from the obvious roof modification to do the 'aeroplane' version, how much other work does the Lima 42' van need to bring it up to scratch- The bogies definitely need swapping, as Lima modelled it on BR Mk1 bogies-  as I recall, someone suggested that the Bachmann LMS bogies are a fairly easy swap for these?

 

How about smaller 4-wheel stuff- Hornby announced the LNER fish van for 2013- didn't some of these end their days as parcels vans?. Sticking with a fishy theme, how about other fish vans- Roger Chivers does a plastic kit for an 6-wheel LMS fish van- did any of these find their way into parcels traffic?- and if so, how late did they last? 

 

There's also the LNER 'Pigeon van' in the Chivers range- again, presumably these saw service in general parcels traffic?

Edited by Invicta

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