62613 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 On 24/01/2021 at 16:44, Metr0Land said: 31466 seen at Holyhead shunting an empty parcels train on 14-6-90. I Cuthbertson collection (slide) by Ian Cuthbertson, on Flickr Afternoon parcels. by John Whiteley, on Flickr Bradford Forster Square 50012 - Hayle by Syd Young, on Flickr The Red Bank by RobT653, on Flickr Heaton "Afternoon Parcels" would make a great jigsaw; my first thoughts were that it was a painting. Brilliant photo! 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w124bob Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Apologies if this has appeared before, 45140 at Sandridgebury near St Albans in the 80's 18 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
montyburns56 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 20 hours ago, w124bob said: Apologies if this has appeared before, 45140 at Sandridgebury near St Albans in the 80's Now that truely is Express Parcels! 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9C85 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) Sorry to be a pain, but I believe that somewhere in this currently 48-page thread is a definitive list of the NPCCS codes for stock .... ie NEA etc. If someone could point me to it, I would be very grateful. Or alternatively... I have a Replica Railways 57ft BG that I am converting to allover BR Blue Newspapers branding c1980 and would like to at least try to get a realistic code and number on it, even though it will be covered in grime. Any suggestions would be appreciated . Thanks. Edited January 31, 2021 by 9C85 Corrected BG make from Mainline to Replica Railways 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 31, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, 9C85 said: I have a Mainline 57ft BG that I am converting to allover BR Blue Newspapers branding c1980 and would like to at least try to get a realistic code and number on it, even though it will be covered in grime. Any suggestions would be appreciated . Thanks. 50ft BG. Have you tried Paul Bartlett's site? https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsparcels. There are some on there. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9C85 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 9 minutes ago, TheSignalEngineer said: 50ft BG. Have you tried Paul Bartlett's site? https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsparcels. There are some on there. Sorry, it is too early on a Sunday morning for me to be making sense. It is Replica BG that I am working on ie BR-built. And I should have said that I will check out Paul Bartlett's site. Thanks 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9C85 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brnpccs/h1186318e The very thing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) NAV: Gangwayed Brake Van 90mph, steam heat only (predominantly Mk1 BG) NBV: Gangwayed Brake Van 90mph, steam heat only, dedicated Brute workings - code not used after about 1980. Express Parcels written on the side with yellow "Brute Circuit Only" spot. (probably all Mk1 BG but there is a photo of a Gresley BG in this condition but with no code) NCV: Gangwayed Brake Van 90mph, steam heat only, dedicated for Newspaper traffic (Mk1 BG) NDV: Gangwayed Brake Van 90mph, steam and electric heating (Mk1 BG) NEV, NEA, NEX: Gangwayed Brake Van 100mph, steam and electric heating NFV: Non-Gangwayed Brake Van 90mph, steam heat only (predominantly ex LMS BG) NGV: 6 wheeled Brake Van (BZ or BGZ). Doubtful if the code was ever carried NHA: Gangwayed Brake Van special maintenance for 110mph, steam and electric heating (Mk1 BG only) NIV: General Utility Van, steam piped only (rarely used, possibly on some ex SR GUVs. Seen on ex GW Monster) NJA, NJV, NJX: General Utility Van, electric wired and steam piped NKV: General Utility Van, steam piped only, dedicated for Brute traffic NLV, NLX: General Utility Van, steam and electric heating , dedicated for Newspaper traffic NMV: GWR Siphon, gangwayed (even those with gangway removed used this code) NNV: GWR Siphon, gangwayed, dedicated for Newspaper traffic NOV: Covered Carriage Truck NPV: Covered Carriage Truck, dedicated to Brute traffic NQV: Parcels and Miscellaneous Van NRV: Special Parcels Van (ex "Blue Spot" fish van) NSV, NSX: Post Office Sorting Van NTV, NTX: Post Office Stowage Van NUV, NUX: Post Office Stowage Van with brake compartment NVV, NVX: Two Tier Car Van NWV, NWX: Bullion Van NXV, NXX: General Utility Van, dedicated for Motorail NYV: Exhibition Van The third later is for the brakes: V = vacuum, A = air, X = dual braked Note: there were some NEV vehicles up to about 1979 which were vacuum braked only 100mph BGs. Some were soon given air brakes, others became NDV as they had BR1 bogies. They originally had special maintenance to run at 100mph but they were derated after about 1980. Most NCV stock had the guards equipment removed and were painted all blue, some also had doors sealed. I say most as the Southern Region allocation kept blue and grey and there may have been others as well. The NIV code could have been given to some Mk1 GUVs (steam piped only) which did not have Brute chains but the vast majority of them (if not all) received NKV branding from the outset. An LMS BG which still had gangways (not many after 1978) could have been coded NAV. From the photos I've seen all the repaints from 1978 onwards carried the new codes. Codes were also added to existing stock from around 1978, possibly late 1977. The Southern Railway Van C (BY) was allocated code NHV but I doubt any ever carried it as they were all withdrawn by August 1978. Edited February 1, 2021 by Flood Added Bullion Van 3 12 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, 9C85 said: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brnpccs/h1186318e The very thing. Note that the Guards door and one set of double doors are sealed. More room for Newspaper sorting tables? Edited January 31, 2021 by Flood 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9C85 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Thanks Flood, that's exactly what I was looking for. I notice the word usually . So, in theory, could a GUV and a BR BG have ended up with the same code? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9C85 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 So now I am faced with a sheet of Railtec transfers for Newspapers branding, but I now realise that the numbers and codes apply to GUVs only, and I am rebranding a BG. Do I... a) Postpone the job and hunt for correct numbers, codes? Or... b) Pick a number and code and stick them on. I will be the only person who sees this coach and at least it looks better than plain sides? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9C85 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 And the answer is.... I decided that I could live with the wrong number, but not the code. I have branded only one side with Newspapers, so I have a choice of how it looks on the layout. If I was really brave, I would scratch off the second digit (6) and try replacing it with a zero, which I believe may be more prototypical? ...but am I really that bothered? ...evidently not. Next phase: Dulcote, then weathering - which will just about obliterate the transfers in any case Thanks for all the information. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 31, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2021 52 minutes ago, 9C85 said: So now I am faced with a sheet of Railtec transfers for Newspapers branding, but I now realise that the numbers and codes apply to GUVs only, and I am rebranding a BG. Do I... a) Postpone the job and hunt for correct numbers, codes? Or... b) Pick a number and code and stick them on. I will be the only person who sees this coach and at least it looks better than plain sides? The fact that you ask us suggests it matters. Keep looking for the right data. 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9C85 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Oldddudders said: The fact that you ask us suggests it matters. Keep looking for the right data. I have just found that Railtec do the transfers I need, but they are nearly £10 per sheet and I only need enough for one coach (possibly a couple more if I am feeling confident enough to repeat this exercise). I have put out a request in the 'Wanted' section of RMWeb. Somebody may have some unwanted transfers lying around - I have quite a few Motorail ones that came along with the Newspapers ones for my GUVs 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 5 hours ago, 9C85 said: Thanks Flood, that's exactly what I was looking for. I notice the word usually . So, in theory, could a GUV and a BR BG have ended up with the same code? Codes NA.. to NE.. were all for gangwayed full brakes (i.e. BG) so would never appear on a GUV. Likewise codes NJ.. to NL.. were for GUVs and would not appear on BGs. I only stated "usually" as LMS full brakes with gangways still fitted could have also been coded NA.. and possibly, but unlikely, NB.. I've changed the text now to remove the word "usually". 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, 9C85 said: And the answer is.... I decided that I could live with the wrong number, but not the code. I have branded only one side with Newspapers, so I have a choice of how it looks on the layout. If I was really brave, I would scratch off the second digit (6) and try replacing it with a zero, which I believe may be more prototypical? ...but am I really that bothered? ...evidently not. Next phase: Dulcote, then weathering - which will just about obliterate the transfers in any case Thanks for all the information. Newspaper Mk1 BGs were initially in the 805xx to 81xxx number series (randomly). In 1983 the 81xxx numbered stock became 84xxx so they didn't clash with Class 81s on TOPS. From October 1986 the Newspaper BGs began to receive Commonwealth bogies and were renumbered into the 952xx number series. So it all depends when you are modelling. You won't be surprised to know that I have lists of all the NCVs from 1978 to the end of B.R. so if you really want to renumber your model then you can choose an actual vehicle. Edited January 31, 2021 by Flood 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9C85 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Flood said: Codes NA.. to NE.. were all for gangwayed full brakes (i.e. BG) so would never appear on a GUV. Likewise codes NJ.. to NL.. were for GUVs and would not appear on BGs. I only stated "usually" as LMS full brakes with gangways still fitted could have also been coded NA.. and possibly, but unlikely, NB.. I've changed the text now to remove the word "usually". To be honest, I thought that would be the case but I wondered if some 'outside' management guru had been drafted in and decreed something like "it doesn't matter what it looks like or who built it, it's a van with a gangway and it carries parcels". (If it looks like a duck and quacks....) 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 On 31/01/2021 at 19:40, 9C85 said: To be honest, I thought that would be the case but I wondered if some 'outside' management guru had been drafted in and decreed something like "it doesn't matter what it looks like or who built it, it's a van with a gangway and it carries parcels". (If it looks like a duck and quacks....) "NCV: Gangwayed Brake Van 90mph, steam heat only, dedicated for Newspaper traffic" LMS BG for Newspapers with NCV code on the side. So its doesn't matter whether it was Mk1 design or LMS, as long as it meets the criteria. From Jamerail on Flickr Earlier you did ask whether a GUV and a BR BG could have the same code, they can't because a GUV has no gangways* and no brake compartment. Therefore it can never be a BG. *Just to cover my back - the 1978 Newspaper Van conversions meant that a batch of Mk1 GUVs were rebuilt with gangways and numbered in the 855xx series. 4 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9C85 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Flood said: *Just to cover my back - the 1978 Newspaper Van conversions meant that a batch of Mk1 GUVs were rebuilt with gangways and numbered in the 855xx series. That's where I was coming from - I had read that some GUVs had been fitted with gangways. Thanks for all the useful information. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted February 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2021 The gangway fitted GUVs were NLA - still well away from the letters used for the various BG. Steven B. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 On 02/02/2021 at 12:07, Flood said: "NCV: Gangwayed Brake Van 90mph, steam heat only, dedicated for Newspaper traffic" LMS BG for Newspapers with NCV code on the side. So its doesn't matter whether it was Mk1 design or LMS, as long as it meets the criteria. From Jamerail on Flickr Earlier you did ask whether a GUV and a BR BG could have the same code, they can't because a GUV has no gangways* and no brake compartment. Therefore it can never be a BG. *Just to cover my back - the 1978 Newspaper Van conversions meant that a batch of Mk1 GUVs were rebuilt with gangways and numbered in the 855xx series. Interesting that it doesn't have an 'M' suffix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 4 hours ago, leopardml2341 said: Interesting that it doesn't have an 'M' suffix. Most appear to have had the M, but not all . https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsparcels/e3551660 Paul 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 6 hours ago, leopardml2341 said: Interesting that it doesn't have an 'M' suffix. I'm sure I've read somewhere that the suffix for pre-nationalisation stock was dropped from repaints in the early to mid 1970s. The earliest example I can find is 1974 as shown below, the vast majority from 1977 onwards do not have suffixes. https://zenfolio.page.link/4oka8 https://zenfolio.page.link/wgNVi https://zenfolio.page.link/QFQnW https://zenfolio.page.link/o9rCR All photos from the Transport Treasury However the two-tier car vans kept there suffixes until withdrawal in 1988. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 On 02/02/2021 at 17:10, Steven B said: The gangway fitted GUVs were NLA - still well away from the letters used for the various BG. Steven B. Or NLX: 85531_Swindon_9-12-79 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted February 6, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 6, 2021 It has often been comment on this thread how parcels trains can be wonderfully mixed , not only in types but over the years with liveries. How is this for a mixed livery train? A Cravens class 129 I am modelling from Tri-ang bits. 7 1 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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