Modelling a traditional parcels train

[TheSignalEngineer]

Last one looks like a Mk1 BG. By the number of distant arms somewhere with closely spaced boxes?

[Tallpaul69]

52 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

Mogul 6309 with a short class C train. The first vehicle is (I think) a 6-wheel Thompson BZ, followed by a what could be a couple of long Minks. Can't tell what the last vehicle is, but it has a Mk1 profile. Lots of detail at the base of the box (love the dustbin!!)

 

I really should know the location, but I'm stumped.
 

 

In the late 50s 6309 was a Swindon Engine. The line looks to be 4 track ( or 2 track with loops?).

There looks to be railway buildings (Goods shed maybe?) on the right just visible beyond the signal box.

 

Am I helping any?

What intrigues me is the positions of the signals :-  

there is a two arm signal to the left of the track the mogul is on positioned behind the train, which has both arms "on" and another similar one behind the train with both arms "off".

Is one set  (that in the distance) for the track to the right of the train and  the other (behind the train) for the track the train is on?

 

All in all an interesting photo!

Cheers

Paul

[The Johnster]

Up and down running lines, a loop in one direction we don't know which, short blocks, a factory or large goods depot to the right behind the signal box.  On the left there is a brick structure, possibly the parapet of a bridge that passes just the other side of the box.  No sun at this spot which is a pity as we can tell from the trees in the left background that it is winter, and a shot in sunlight would have given us a possible time of day from the shadows; with that established we can make a stab at the direction the train is heading  The trees look to be part of the garden of a large detached house, so that may give somebody a clue.

 

I don't know where it is, which means it is nowhere between Cardiff and Carmarthen,  Worcester via Hereford or Gloucester), Swindon via Bath or Badminton, Westbury, or Taunton, these being my 'stomping ground' during my 1970s railway career and which I can claim fairly intimate knowledge. 

 

We are definitely somewhere on the GW.  Hopefully my above exclusions will help narrow it down. 

[TheSignalEngineer]

10 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

nowhere between Cardiff and Carmarthen,  Worcester via Hereford or Gloucester), Swindon via Bath or Badminton, Westbury, or Taunton,

My initial thoughts were a junction in the Reading towards Swindon section.

Edited December 17, 2020 by TheSignalEngineer

[hmrspaul]

I would suggest the two vans behind the ER BZ are WR Fruit Ds. They were used as parcels stock but don't seem to have wandered as much as the SR NPCCS did. 

 

Paul

[Miss Prism]

Yes, they are Fruit Ds - the raised step over the long lever brake is the clue.

 

[Metr0Land]

Kenton

 

Powderham

 

Redhill

 

Sonning Cutting

 

 

 

 

[Metr0Land]

Carnforth

 

Euston

 

Barton and Broughton

 

Peterstone (Newport)

 

 

 

 

[Northmoor]

On 19/12/2020 at 12:00, Metr0Land said:

Redhill

 

You've got to love a real train formation where the vehicle liveries alternate perfectly and the loco doesn't match either livery.

[Oldddudders]

6 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

You've got to love a real train formation where the vehicle liveries alternate perfectly and the loco doesn't match either livery.

And woe betide you if you run such a formation at an exhibition. 

[Grizz]

On 19/12/2020 at 12:00, Metr0Land said:

 

 

 

 

Redhill

 

Sonning Cutting

 

 

 

 

I remember seeing that ‘alternate formation’ passing Purley, and hauling it is the uniquely liveried 47475 in Trans Penine blue stripe. No camera again on that day.

 

The loco in the other photo is 47508 S.S. Great Britain. .....my favourite era of postal train Br Rail Blue / Blue and Grey / Large Logo etc

 

Thanks so much Metr0land for showing these photos. I might go up to the layout and re-enact those trains this afternoon. 

 

[montyburns56]

Tyne Yard 1990

 

 

[Oldddudders]

21 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

Tyne Yard 1990

 

 

As a Southern sort of cove I'm used to filthy vans being hauled by a cleanish loco. This is the reverse!

[The Johnster]

Can't have been many trains with brake vans in 1990, and carrying side lamps as well!

[Wheatley]

Unfitted departmental trains hung on on the ER until about 1990-ish. They were certainly still reasonably common in 1988-9.

[w124bob]

On 04/01/2021 at 18:48, montyburns56 said:

Tyne Yard 1990

 

 

That looks like the consist for the York Manchester TPO, around that date the train was routed into Piccadilly before going forward to Cardiff. It came down ECS from Newcastle to York, arriving around 20.30. A Man Vic driver travelled out on the cushions to work back about 21.30(ish). I had a couple of memorable trips back on this turn, first one was with a class 47, leaving York in blizzard conditions only arrive at Stockport in a light drizzle, this was when it ran direct to Shrewsbury via Crewe. The second memorable trip was because of an engine failure, the train arrived late at York with a coal sector 37 on the front. The Tyne Yard driver was hoping for a run through to Manchester and mega overtime, he was p****d off because I signed the traction! In the days when the job was still a York trip out and back to Stockport there was at least one Deltic run possibly as far as Crewe, anyone know any more. Interestingly I never encountered the return working.

Edited January 15, 2021 by w124bob

[The Johnster]

My memories of the train are from the Cardiff end, where it was known as the 'Northern' on the railway and the 'North Mail' in the GPO.  One of the Cardiff double home crew in the 80s and early 90s, though I was never able to determine whether he considered himself a railwayman or a postal worker, was a large black and white tom cat, who would saunter up about 2 minutes before departure time, 20.40 off Cardiff, and hop on the postal van with the supervisor.  He was fed and pampered by the Royal Mail staff so I suppose he should be considered postal.  On arrival at York at 05.20, he'd detrain and scarper, to go about whatever cats go about when they are not pinching sorters' sarnies, and show up for the evening departure in much the same manner he'd done at Cardiff the night before.  He knew the route, and would hide in a bag tender whenever the train was approaching a stop where he might be thrown out with the bags...

 

He could tell the time as well, and would become anxious if the train was not exactly running to time.  As the Mail contract included stiff penalty clauses for mail delayed by the railway, and equally stiff penalty clauses for trains delayed by the mail, everybody got anxious, but the cat was usually the one who informed the postal inspector if timings were even slightly amiss.  It was of course the postal inspector's job to time the train as the information was needed if there was a delay and either side made a claim on the other, which is why the one on the City of Truro Ocean Mails run had recorded the passing times and speeds.  Delaying Her Majesty's Mails, property of the crown while in the postal system, was reputed to be a treasonable offence which retained capital punishment; it was certainly regarded both by Royal Mail and BR as a 'hanging offence' in the colloquial sense.

 

He was always well groomed and was probably homed and fed in Cardiff and York as well as on the train!

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

How traditional do you like your parcels/mail trains ?

 

 

Gibbo.

[62613]

5 hours ago, w124bob said:

That looks like the consist for the York Manchester TPO, around that date the train was routed into Piccadilly before going forward to Cardiff. It came down ECS from Newcastle to York, arriving around 20.30. A Man Vic driver travelled out on the cushions to work back about 21.30(ish). I had a couple of memorable trips back on this turn, first one was with a class 47, leaving York in blizzard conditions only arrive at Stockport in a light drizzle, this was when it ran direct to Shrewsbury via Crewe. The second memorable trip was because of an engine failure, the train arrived late at York with a coal sector 37 on the front. The Tyne Yard driver was hoping for a run through to Manchester and mega overtime, he was p****d off because I signed the traction! In the days when the job was still a York trip out and back to Stockport there was at least one Deltic run possibly as far as Crewe, anyone know any more. Interestingly I never encountered the return working.

In 1980 and 1981, there were several; you could hear them coming up the Tame Valley for miles. I think it was weekdays only though; I was a regular at the Stalybridge Station folk club which was in the Buffet Bar, and ran until the station closed after the York train had left (sometimes at quarter past midnight). It always seemed to be a 37 or 40 then

 

[62613]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

My memories of the train are from the Cardiff end, where it was known as the 'Northern' on the railway and the 'North Mail' in the GPO.  One of the Cardiff double home crew in the 80s and early 90s, though I was never able to determine whether he considered himself a railwayman or a postal worker, was a large black and white tom cat, who would saunter up about 2 minutes before departure time, 20.40 off Cardiff, and hop on the postal van with the supervisor.  He was fed and pampered by the Royal Mail staff so I suppose he should be considered postal.  On arrival at York at 05.20, he'd detrain and scarper, to go about whatever cats go about when they are not pinching sorters' sarnies, and show up for the evening departure in much the same manner he'd done at Cardiff the night before.  He knew the route, and would hide in a bag tender whenever the train was approaching a stop where he might be thrown out with the bags...

 

He could tell the time as well, and would become anxious if the train was not exactly running to time.  As the Mail contract included stiff penalty clauses for mail delayed by the railway, and equally stiff penalty clauses for trains delayed by the mail, everybody got anxious, but the cat was usually the one who informed the postal inspector if timings were even slightly amiss.  It was of course the postal inspector's job to time the train as the information was needed if there was a delay and either side made a claim on the other, which is why the one on the City of Truro Ocean Mails run had recorded the passing times and speeds.  Delaying Her Majesty's Mails, property of the crown while in the postal system, was reputed to be a treasonable offence which retained capital punishment; it was certainly regarded both by Royal Mail and BR as a 'hanging offence' in the colloquial sense.

 

He was always well groomed and was probably homed and fed in Cardiff and York as well as on the train!

Wasn't called Skimbleshanks was he?

 

[The Johnster]

His name escapes me at this remove in time, but I can confidently assert that it wasn't Shimbleshnanks.  He probably had at least 3 names, from his 'owner' in Cardiff, his 'owner' in York, and his TPO name.  I do recall him being referred to as a sort of Spoonerism of 'Cooking Fat' after nicking someone's sarnies...

[Tallpaul69]

On 19/12/2020 at 12:00, Metr0Land said:

Kenton

 

Powderham

 

Redhill

 

Sonning Cutting

 

 

 

 

Hi All,

Just catching up with this thread after a few weeks absebse!

Can you tell me the approx. date for the above four trains?

 

If they are (say) c1990, what would have changed in the liveries of locos and stock by 1992?

 

Many thanks

Cheers

Paul

[Metr0Land]

Afraid not.  If you click on each picture you'll see what info the photter has put on Flickr, which sadly in all 4 cases doesn't show the date the photos were taken.

[Metr0Land]

31466 seen at Holyhead shunting an empty parcels train on 14-6-90. I Cuthbertson collection (slide) by Ian Cuthbertson, on Flickr

 

Afternoon parcels. by John Whiteley, on Flickr

Bradford Forster Square

 

50012 - Hayle by Syd Young, on Flickr

 

The Red Bank by RobT653, on Flickr

Heaton

[Steven B]

On 22/01/2021 at 14:48, Tallpaul69 said:

Hi All,

Just catching up with this thread after a few weeks absebse!

Can you tell me the approx. date for the above four trains?

 

If they are (say) c1990, what would have changed in the liveries of locos and stock by 1992?

 

Many thanks

Cheers

Paul

 

Searching Flickr for the loco numbers can help track down when locos changed livery:

 

31439 (Kenton) was repainted into Regional Railways livery in 1992.

 

47537 (Powderham) went into RES in late 1992.

 

47475 (Redhill) had the yellow cab roofs painted grey at some point between May and Sept 1991. By Sept 1993 it was in RES red/grey livery (i.e. taken between 1991-1993)

 

47508 (Pictured in Sonning Cutting) was in Intercity livery by Sept 88 so this image must pre-date this. I'd guess this is a newspaper working rather than a parcels train.

 

I think any of these four trains would pass for between '90 and '92.

 

Steven B.