Improving the Hornby 4Vep.

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

As well as the 4Sub I have been working on this 4Vep this festive period. I got mine for £77 so wasn't worried about taking the knife to it. I started with the bogies. I drilled out the axleboxes and fitted new bearings. I used Romford wheels and the result is a nice free running bogie. The bogie was turned and refitted the correct way round. The pick up bogie is slightly more involved but as long as you are careful removing the pick up beam and guardirons they can be refitted easily after completing the bearing mods.

 

 

 

 

The body is a lot more involved. I tackled the cab end first. The corridor connection was removed and shortened by a couple of millimeters and the cab door moved forward. I decided to try and sort out the window problem and found that No Nonsense Kits make window surrounds of the correct shape. I removed the glazing then marked out the cab front with the outside of the window frame in the correct place. I then cut up to this line and put a sliver of plastic on the opposite side. The same was done to the cable boxes. If you cut carefully you can re use the glazing.

 

 

 

 

 

Roof details are MJT salvaged from my Lima/MJT conversion. Air horns and wipers are the excellent Replica products. It was renumbered with Replica numbers. The paint was touched up with Precision warning yellow. The buckeye is MJT. In most of the shots the unmodified Driver is included for comparison. Now that I have proved that these mods have worked I will post a step by step guide on how they were done. I have also corrected the corridor side in the interior. For all it's faults with a few evenings work an acceptable result can be had. I only have the unmodified Driver to do now. I have replaced the wheels on the power car with Ultrascales and it runs really well. Now I know this works I will have no hesitation on tackling the blue/grey one when it arrives.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[Southernman46]

 the blue/grey one when it arrives.

 

 

Is there any reliable "gen" out there on when this might be ?   Had expected it in the 2013 announcements.

[retbsignalman]

Hi!

 

Like the idea of drilling out the axleboxes to put in pin point axles and bearings. How did you manage to get the holes for the bearings precise (to avoid bogie wobble) please? Did you go from the outside in and put fresh axlebox covers on or work from the inside out? And if you are going down the route of pin points, is there a need to retain the bulk of the existing factory made bearing housings?

 

I have an NSE one which has had Ultrascale wheels and axles fitted, but runs like a three legged donkey on crutches. Much expense to basically polish a t#rd! After much running in, oil, love and attention not to add a) it ever running properly , b) it ever combatting the slight grade on the main line part of the layout (without a rubber band), I have put a Replica 64' chassis beneath it and replaced the now unnecessary 'electric couplings' with KD148s. All bearings have been oiled and it runs sweetly.

 

If I invest in a blue grey one, I won't be wanting to spend a fortune on replacement wheels and a new motor bogie/chassis like i have with this one....its only the fact it rode on the chairs of the code 75 track, relied upon a rubber band to make it go and had unusual sized inside bearings that led me to get Ultrascales. I found myself  stuck twixt the Devil and the deep blue sea as to what to do with it - keeping it after all the expense is the only option, after all flogging it on Eskip won't realise my mental and finantial torture!!

 

If the blue/grey one isn't any better, I can see it having to be 'demotored' , the bearings modified and it being a trailer unit to be hauled by either a 2EPB or a 4CEP.

 

A friend brought round a 'Belle unit. The comparisons are many.....the motor ran well straight out of the box with no jerky Lima-esque cogging motion and the carriages ran freely, without riding along every chair, which begs the question: If Hornby can get the 'Belle so right in the running and looks department, why does the VEP - a much needed and signature unit for any SR layout post '67 - have to be so very different? Surely they should flog more VEPs than 'Belles' even based upon the fact that not every SR modeller models the Central Division and there were only three 'Belle sets as opposed to the bread and butter nature of the VEP on all three Divisions.

 

Oh dear... I appear to have converted a simple 'well done Sir' and how do you do it into a rant. Sorry chaps and chapesses, I can only put it down to a lack of night shift induced sleep and the frustration of shelling out in excess of £200 for a much anticipated model. Apologies!

 

Cheers Graeme    

[Southernman46]

Yes, that was really helpful. There is another 4-VEP thread for that.

 

So unmasking my original Q from the above, is there are reliable "gen" out there on when the B&G version is likely to make an appearance ?

[retbsignalman]

Hi!

 

Yes, that was really helpful.

Unlikely.....

There is another 4-VEP thread for that.

Probably, and its inevitably all been said before...I refer to my final paragraph....

So unmasking my original Q from the above, is there are reliable "gen" out there on when the B&G version is likely to make an appearance ?

Not a clue sir!

 

Cheers G

[RFS]

Hatton's web-site says for the blue-grey version that it's "due into stock on or after Monday 3rd June 2013".

 

And £160 too!

[5Bel]

Hi Graeme,

 

I did the wheelbearings from the outside in. So far I have encountered no problems with squareness. Because the Romford axles are 2mm there was no need to remove any plastic from the bogies. With the Ultrascales on the motor bogie the unit runs sweetly, as good as the 5Bel. Hopefully they will do the blue/grey one, as the units really are a must have for the Southern Electric modeller.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[retbsignalman]

Hi Ian,

 

Thanks for that, I've got a couple of B4S bogies in the 'Stuff and Projects' box, I'll give it a go!

 

Kind regards,

 

Graeme

[Colin parks]

Hi Ian,

 

Nice bit of VEP surgery there.  The cab front certainly is a great improvement on the original Hornby effort.  The VEP's performance will be very much improved with the alterations to the wheel bearings. There is a tool available for drilling out one-piece bogies/wagon chassis to take pin-point bearings, although I can't recall the name of the manufacturer. 

 

Perhaps it wouldn't be too easy to use on an inside bearing design such as this model has, there being no holes to guide the drill from the inside.  When fitting bearings to a Hornby Stanier brake van last year, a 0.5mm  pilot hole was drilled through the axle box (axle centre) from the outside, then the correct size drill for the bearing was bored from the inside.  It only left a small hole to plug.  (I must confess I never did plug those holes!)

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[5 C]

Hi Ian,

 

Nice bit of VEP surgery there.  The cab front certainly is a great improvement on the original Hornby effort.  The VEP's performance will be very much improved with the alterations to the wheel bearings. There is a tool available for drilling out one-piece bogies/wagon chassis to take pin-point bearings, although I can't recall the name of the manufacturer. 

 

Perhaps it wouldn't be too easy to use on an inside bearing design such as this model has, there being no holes to guide the drill from the inside.  When fitting bearings to a Hornby Stanier brake van last year, a 0.5mm  pilot hole was drilled through the axle box (axle centre) from the outside, then the correct size drill for the bearing was bored from the inside.  It only left a small hole to plug.  (I must confess I never did plug those holes!)

 

All the best,

 

Colin

It's the Bob Payne RTR drill, available from Alan Gibson:

 

www.alangibsonworkshop.com/RTR%20Drill.pdf

 

Andy

[5Bel]

Hi Colin,

 

The 0.5mm pilot hole is exactly how I did it. Luckily I managed to get the holes square. I have done a series of photos on how I did the cab mods and will post them when I get access to my computer at home.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[The Evil Bus Driver]

Excellent conversion! Personally I would have gone for a replacement door moulded into the gangway (3d printing anyone?) but this would work wonders imho. I might get some scrap bodies or something to practice on but as far as mine goes i don't have a roundy-roundy layout to run it in on (what I have seen of it seems to be a good one) but with a replacement body i might be persuaded to alter the face of the unit and do the bogie mods. I might well oil the axles until such a time as a temporary measure though. And get a spare bogie to experiment with too.

[SRman]

I am very interested in how Ian did the cab mods because, to me, that is the bit that lets the original model down the most. I wasn't going to buy any at first because of the front end appearance but I did relent and get one blue unit and one NSE one because both came at much reduced prices, making them more worthwhile purchases (for me).

 

I may do the bogie mods or I may not - free running is a very good idea but the back-to-front mounting doesn't bother me that much because I can't see the bogies clearly when running anyway.

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for the comments. The Vep is nearly complete, only the corridor side to do. Here are some pics of the mods I did to the body and the bogies.

 

Model split down into the components for modification.

 

The first thing I did was to mark out the door in the connection for re use. The connection was then removed for modification.

 

Cab front marked out for cutting using dimensions from the Hornby Vep thread. If you are careful you can do it without breaking the cab handrails.

 

Windows and cable recess reshaped.

 

Cab front glazing modified by splitting into three parts, the cab windows having their outside edges trimmed down and the centre one thinned down to fit inside the new corridor connection.

 

Windows and cable recesses filled on the corridor side with 1mm square plastic section

 

No Nonsense Kits window surrounds.

 

Surrounds fitted to ends.

 

Ends touched up with Precision Paints warning panel yellow which is a good match.

 

Set renumbered with Replica rub on transfers and glazing refitted.

 

Corridor connection cut in half.

 

Corridor components ready for reassembly.

 

Corridor connection ready for putting back on the body. This is now half the size of the original and the door is set forward as per prototype.

 

The undersize Hornby roof vents were removed and replaced with MJT ones from my old Lima/MJT donor model.

 

Wheels were removed and the axle boxes drilled with 0.5mm drill as near as I could to the centre!

 

The holes were then drilled with a 1.9mm drill then eased out with a broach to accept the Romford plain bearings.

 

Axle fitted, bearings superglued into place.

 

The end conversion is not as hard as it sounds, you just need the confidence to take a knife to the model. If you do one mod to this model then I would suggest the bogies need doing. It really does give the model a new lease of life, this one runs really well now. I now have the corridor side to mark out and chop, but it is now very dark here in Lincolnshire so it will have to wait for another day. I hope these pics have been of some use for anybody who is contemplating modifying their own model. It goes to show what this model could have been with a little bit more research/development from Hornby (but lets not get into that here!!!) I will post some pics of the completed model once I have completed the interior and the Sun comes out.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[SRman]

Really useful and inspiring, Ian. Thanks for posting this.

 

Just one question: how did you go about cutting those corridor connections in half?

[5Bel]

Hi SRman,

 

Thanks for the comment. The corridor connection was cut very slowly with a fine toothed razor saw along the centre line where there is a ridge. You do get a little margin of error as you have reduce the depth of the front part anyway. I did try and get a photo of the process but ran out of hands to hold the camera!!

 

Cheers for now, Ian

[SRman]

Thanks Ian. That's sort of what I pictured in my mind but I can also picture the process taking a slice out of my fingers! I'll give it a go even before doing any other modifications.

 

[Southernman46]

Sheeesh - is that all it needs ??....................

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

Continuing with the modifications the corridor side is now complete. I have used the corridor side from my donor unit as a replacement. This was from the Southern Pride interior kit. There was no finesse in removing the Hornby side, I used pliers and razor saw to get it out.

 

Southern Pride corridor side cut down to fit the Hornby body.

 

Plastic removed from the Hornby moulding.

 

New side fixed in place and interior refitted to chassis.

 

Body refitted, you can see through to the other side!!

 

The finished result.

 

Now that's better!!

 

I have really enjoyed doing this conversion. It was not particularly hard and improves the looks 100%. There is the obvious point that I should not have to do it at all, but the end result is something that I can call my own. I will do it again to the blue/grey one when it arrives, unless Hornby do it themselves! The unit will now return to it's box until I get a layout that it can stretch it's legs on. I hope this post has been of use to people, just to show what can be done.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[Colin parks]

Hi Ian,

 

I have just been catching up with your 4 VEP topic after a pretty heavy first week back at work.   The unit looks a whole lot better now you have done all the conversions and improvements.  It was bold of you to tackle the cab fronts, but they now have the right 'face', with the re-positioned windows and MU recesses. 

 

Well done!

 

Colin

[5Bel]

Hi Colin,

 

Thanks for the comments. The only thing extra I would have liked to have done was to repaint it blue/grey, trying to get the glazing out however was nigh on impossible. I will wait for the Hornby blue/grey one to be released and discounted!!

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[The Evil Bus Driver]

I will have a play with some spare bodyshells first off, that way if it works I have a direct replacement.

[5Bel]

I will have a play with some spare bodyshells first off, that way if it works I have a direct replacement.

Hi,

 

Good luck with your conversion. I have one question for you and that is where did you get the spare bodyshells? Wouldn't mind some myself for future conversions.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[The Evil Bus Driver]

I haven't yet. I'm scouring Ebay. teeth and Hens comes to mind.

[John Oxlade]

It strikes me that in this day and age, and going on the quality/accuracy of other models, that Hornby dropped the ball on this one. Shame cos I need a couple in blue/grey and now I'm not sure I can be bothered.