Portchullin Tatty Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Regarding your questions: - I also bought an Iwata and do not regret it at all. I have used several ebay/amazon type purchases which just aren't as good or durable. - I am not sure you need to go to the price you have for a compressor; try something like this? By the way Eileens do compressor/airbrush deals and has a 10% special on at the moment - so take a look at the rest of their site. - a single tinlet will comfortably do the whole of your 3 Sub; and a couple of sisters as long as you do not knock the pot over! - you want to use an etch primer (especially for brass); the two pack one from Precision is what I use but there are a couple of cans of ready mixed ones available - personally I have not used these but Ozzyo recommends them and he is a talented (and quite prolific) modeller so I am not arguing with him! - you will want a thinner appropriate to the paint you are using. I have started erring to ordinary white spirit rather than an enamel thinner - Ian Rathbone uses it and he really can paint! In this regard, buying/reading his book is a worthwhile investment Like your stuff (and layout). Something you may want to look (in the future it would be difficult to do now) is to solder a strip on the inside of the coach side at the head and base. Something like 1 * .5mm strip is sufficient. It stiffens the side and stops them from distorting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted November 23, 2013 Author Share Posted November 23, 2013 Thank you very much, some really helpful pointers and advice there. I have been looking at Eileen's as I prefer to use known and reputable sources, and it's particularly useful to know how much paint I need (I know it sounds daft, but it's difficult to gauge these things when you've not done it before). The Ian Rathbone website is quite inspiring! Many thanks again, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 I can recommend Eileens, the only thing to watch is the name. One friend seeing a plain brown bag labelled 'Eileens Emporium' was most curious and got the wrong idea entirely about what it purveyed 8) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted December 26, 2013 Author Share Posted December 26, 2013 LSWR 3 Sub Update: 14 Hello all, I thought it was time to post an update, although it's not very exciting I'm afraid. I like to plan ahead and get things 'in stock' ready for when I need them, so in recent weeks the following arrived ... Seven rooves from Etched Pixels. I only need six, but thought I should get one extra 'just in case'. Paints and primer arrived from Phoenix Precision. I have 'LSWR Green' and 'Southern Green 1923 - 1929' ... I'm looking forward to seeing the difference in the two greens and running subtly different liveried sets alongside each other. I spent quite some time tweaking artwork for bespoke transfers. Below is a picture of work-in-progress - the exercise here was about getting things the right size rather than showing them in the correct positions. It was also about checking details such as the LSWR used 'GUARDs COMPT' whilst SR used 'GUARD LUGGAGE'. Here are the unit numbers / carriage numbers I'll be using for my three sets... The first is LSWR E4 (which will run in LSWR livery)MBT No 6706C No 7554MBC 7202Then SR 1207 (ex E7)MBT No 8011C No 9374MBC 8753SR 1208 (ex E8)MBT No 8012C No 9375MBC 8754From what I understand, E4 was the first unit ever to run on the LSWR, so I absolutely have to have that. The next two unit numbers, E7 and E8 sequentially follow E4 in terms of unit type. The intermediate numbers were taken by other units that were outwardly similar, but differed in detail. Anyway, the decals were ordered from Precision Labels, who were very helpful, and delivery was received two days later. I also made up head codes in varying sizes (I'm not yet sure exactly the size I need). I have received my airbrush and compressor from Eileen's Emporium. This is the Iwata Eclipse CS, look at how shiny it is ... The cup size is 1/3 oz (10ml ?? ) But what I haven't a clue about is what proportion of the cup would I need to fill in order to spray (say) three carriages? I also bought a compressor - the AS186. Both items are still in their boxes at the moment, but I wanted to have them ready and waiting for when the time comes. I have to say Derek at Eileen's Emporium was enormously helping in recommending products according to my requirements. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So I've been buying plenty - but have I actually done any work? Well yes: But having already documented the basic work on the first of my 3-Subs, there seemed little point in repeating blow-by-blow exactly the same work on the two remaining units. On the other hand, today I thought I really ought to post something ... But how to make three sets of the same thing look visually interesting? Well below is the best I could do I'm afraid, sorry! The two blanks are for the motorised cars which I hope to get done over the next few days. Finally, I made some little labels to stick under the individual carriages so that as work progresses I can keep track of which is which. Oh, and following recent discussions about how to make trusses, as recommended, I've bought some guitar strings to experiment with. As always, comments and suggestions welcome. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 Good idea to label underneath. I always mark the diagram number under a vehicle so that I can remember what it is meant to become or what I built. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 Hi Mark, Good to see the progress n your trio of units. It looks as if you are making thorough preparations for the final 'push'. It has to be said that constructing nine vehicles at once is a major task! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 Frankland 3-Sub: 15 Since my last update I've been focused on coupling. The original 3-Subs used 'bogie block coupling': A single, centrally positioned, drum-shaped buffer (I believe around 1'2" diameter) through which a draw-bar passed from the carriages either side. Initially I thought it would be quite pleasing to emulate this. The bogies have conveniently placed holes for coupling as you can see below. I cut a drum and drilled two holes through which two rods were glued that would fit into the holes (and one rod was glued permanently to one bogie). It worked very well, but unfortunately just didn't look right. Unsure what the solution was, I asked Colin Parks how he coupled his 00 EMUs, and he kindly responded (post 632 below). Many thanks Colin! http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75582-4-sub-unit-4377-and-related-subjects/page-26 My couplings vary slightly by necessity because the N Gauge Society 8' Southern Steam Bogies are different in design (in my case the 'tongue' for the wire loop is suspended from beneath the top of the bogie rather than siting atop a cross-bar) - but in principle it's much the same. Here's an early prototype I made for testing. There is a slice of sprue used to represent the cylindrical buffer on the other side of the coupling - although it's difficult to see because it's green like the cutting mat - sorry! The wire is glued only on the very far-right to allow for plenty of flexibility. It took me quite a while to make the loops proper (I threw away more than I kept. Each time I tried to close the loop around the draw-bar it pulled off-centre more often than not. I didn't have to close the loop I suppose, but just felt things would be more reliable long-term if I did). Below are the 'tongues' - They are a bit rough-and-ready, but no one will see them and it's more about functionality than aesthetic consideration here ... This was looking a little better ... And I tested it on my tightest curves ... It's tight - but thought I could close the gap just that little bit more. The standard gap on my old generic N Gauge stock is 12mm. It is now down to 4mm. The sprue I used to represent the block-coupling is 3mm diameter, meaning it now looks a near-perfect (and near-prototypical) fit. Hoorah! One final thing for this update: I made a small adjustment to the bogies to make them look less SR (on the left in the picture below), and more LSWR (on the right). Basically it's just snipping off the bar that runs horizontally underneath the axle boxes: Although it's only a small detail, it should enhance the overall 'upright' appearance of the cars, which is a characteristic that comes out quite clearly in photographs of the units. Yesterday I finished the basic couplings and tested them thoroughly by running trains round-and-round. I made a short film to show you (well it makes a change from photos) ... but got a little carried away with the production: oops! Nevertheless, I managed to keep the video more 'practical' than fun - otherwise when I finally finish the units there would be little in the way of angles you haven't seen. Please be aware that there is still loads to do ... for eg. the rooves are still loose-fitted, trusses are still to-do etc. Hope the link works! Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanks522 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 As always Mark the work is excellent, the gap between the coaches really does enhance the unit. video is nice to, few unusual angles. Graham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofanenvelope Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Nice to have a bit of Frankland fix and good stuff Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MrSimon Posted January 26, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2014 Hi Mark, Great job getting the units running, and coupling so reliably! How do the couplings actually work? Is there a peg the loop goes round? Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Great work and video mark! I particularly like the point at 2:27 where one unit overtakes the other! The gap may be tight on the inside of the curve between the vehicles, but the units look all the better for the close-coupling. Sorry you wasted a bit of time trying my method of inter-unit coupling before hitting on your own successful design. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 .... Sorry you wasted a bit of time trying my method of inter-unit coupling before hitting on your own successful design. All the best, Colin Hello Colin, I think I didn't explain things very well: I did use your method, but simply inverted the tongues because the bogies I am using don't have the crossbar. Otherwise, as far as I can see, the couplings are as you suggested. Your help made all the difference and many thanks again! --------------- Thank you also Graham and Backofanenvelope. --------------- Simon, if you check post 632 below you'll see Colin's description of his coupling method. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75582-4-sub-unit-4377-and-related-subjects/page-26 I had to do it slightly differently, with the tongue suspended from underneath the top of the bogie, but it works a treat. Thanks again, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MrSimon Posted January 26, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2014 Ah, that makes sense - I couldn't work out how you were getting the clearance on top of the bogie. I'm going to have to remember this for if I ever get round to making a unit... Also, it has the bonus of ensuring the middle coach is always the right way round Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Hi Mark, I see now what you have done. The coaches buff up to the round component, but are not joined by it. Good idea. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 Hello again Simon and Colin, apologies as I meant to add the picture below to my last post by way of explanation, but then forgot! The wire is glued only at the far right-hand end (just to the left of the bolt) so there is plenty of room for flexibility in it. The original coupling arm on the bogie on the right was trimmed to make it less obtrusive - and on the other side of it, at the left-hand end is a slice of green sprue (around 3mm diameter) to represent the buffing drum. The drum doesn't quite touch the carriage either side, but when viewed from most angles looks as if it does. The coupling arm of the bogie on the left has been completely cut back, and then the tongue glued on. Thanks again, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Hi Mark, Your coupling method is now clear! The solution is more convenient than mine as you can drop your coach bogie with the lug onto the wire coupling loop whereas I have to lift the two ends of the coaches to couple them up. You might have to be careful with inner end steps and other fittings. The position of the emergency train brake fittings being the tightest spots on the EMUs I have built, with a gap of 1mm. In N gauge, that is reduced to a hair-raising 0.5mm. It could be fine, but beware the gap will close if the motorised coach is pushing the unit rather than pulling it. At lest you can fine-tune the distance between coaches by extending the wire or altering the position of the lug. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
c2c Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Hi Mark, Wow! You've been a busy boy! Since the my last read up in your thread I thought you were only making one unit......but now there's three! I just love your video graphics, you should be in film making with talent like that. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 " ...I thought you were only making one unit......but now there's three!" Hello Dave, I sort of changed tack without actually telling anyone. I initially bought etches for three units. My plan had been to work on one unit first to completion, as a learning curve, and then apply lessons to the other two. But things went much better than I had anticipated so I decided to jump on the Henry Ford bandwagon and create a production line. I'm still proceeding at a cautious pace though, because whilst I'm really chuffed with progress, there's nothing worse than getting over confident. So step-by-step is still the order of the day. ----------------------- Hello Colin: Thanks for your thoughts regarding coach ends, really very much appreciated. I have an idea for easy-to-release jumper cables between carriages. I'll post details when I get to it (if it works out that is!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
c2c Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I'm still proceeding at a cautious pace though, because whilst I'm really chuffed with progress, there's nothing worse than getting over confident. So step-by-step is still the order of the day. Wise words Mark and the correct attitude mate, I'm involved with a lot of prototyping and scratch myself. I found the best to time for thought solving is just after I wake in the morning, I lay for about 1/2 an hour in the most comfortable position I can get myself into. Its amazing what can be thought up! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Funny you say that Dave, I like to let such thoughts drift through my head as I fall asleep, in the hope that they'll permeate my dreams and I'll wake up with a solution subconsciously lodged in my head for the next time I return to a given task. I don't think it works though! Unfortunately in the mornings I have no brain function - just 'get ready for work routine auto-pilot'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 You've inspired me to attempt lots of things with Frankland (which I'm very grateful of), however I'm not sure I'm ready to have a go at etched coaches or units just yet - still got one of Rich's cast offs somewhere that looks a complete mess!<br /><br />These are looking great Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Frankland 3-Sub: 16 Hello Ladies and Gents, Work continues on the 3-Subs, albeit slowly, and in some cases somewhat painfully, but I guess that's all part of the learning curve. I'll start with the cab fronts. As a beginner I thought I'd try two approaches to forming the curves around the lower cab fronts. Firstly using Squadron Putty, which seemed ok ... And secondIy I tried solder. The solder just accumulated over the brass 'whiskers' of the etch but would not fill the gaps in between. As you can see below, those I tried to solder now look like a smile with it's teeth bashed out! When I tried to form a smooth curve around the lower-cab front, the brass 'whiskers' either broke off, or distorted into obstructive positions ... I later found the Squadron Putty prone to flaking. In both instances of applying solder or putty I found as I (very gently) sanded or filed the surfaces, the brass whiskers readily snapped or contorted at the first excuse ... Obviously I did something wrong (although I was quite disciplined about preparatory cleaning etc - so not quite sure where I went wrong - but hey-ho!) On another forum someone suggested mixing Squadron Putty (which is an epoxy based putty) with Araldite (epoxy resin) ... but I thought I'd go one step further and just use Araldite alone as a filler for the curved cab-fronts. No pictures of progress - but keep fingers crossed that it works for me! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't know about others, but I always seem to work towards a 'kit-of parts' from which I assemble the final thing ... A little progress this week on the dummy motor bogies. I used some old Farish generics as my starting point.Trimmed off the curved ends.And snipped off unwanted gubbins on the side of the bogies. Below is before and after ...I extended the length and depth of the bogies with Microstrip.There will be some detailing to add: The fuse boxes, shoe bars and conductor shoes for instance, but I'll add these nearer the end of the build as they'll be easy to knock off whilst I'm constantly handling things.Another detail will be foot boards... I thought the best way to make them would be from offcuts of brass. And then I remembered that at Christmas someone bought me some 00 scale lineside fencing which I kept in case it came in useful ... ... it's turned-out to be perfect for the (slightly lopsided) 'T' shape that I will need ... The only thing I'm unsure about here is adapting the above to the 'real' motor bogies. As you can see in the next picture, there's less room for manoeuvre inside and out of the bogie frame ...I think I'll just have to botch that when I get to it, and not tell anyone Next up are trusses ... Earlier advice was to form these from guitar wire and etc ... but before I got to it Mr Etched Pixels came up with the items below which I am exceedingly happy with to say the least. That has saved me a lot of time and (probably) frustration too in the last week I have moved on to interiors. Below you see the components for a Trailer Composite. At the bottom of the picture is some 'dummy' glazing - which is used to ensure the interiors are a neat fit. Below are the interiors. The gaps in the floors/seats at each end are where the nuts and bolts that retain the bogies protrude into the carriages. Once all are painted I'm sure you'll not notice them. On the compartment dividing walls I've scribed a line 4mm from the top, the idea being that this marks the line between the top of upholstery and bottom of the paneling. Hopefully when I paint them the scribed-line will work by osmosis to create a border between top and bottom colours. At least that's the theory! The next picture shows the compartments in situ. I also put a couple of figures in there just to see how they would look. Btw - I could have just glued the interiors to the floor of the carriages - but have this idea in my head that I want to make an interchangeable set of interiors crammed with people for photography of intense rush-hour trains on Frankland. ----------------------------------------------------------- On a separate note: I've spent over a year on this project now (!!) From the experience of the great and good out there in RMWebLand ... is that normal? I'm starting to get a little frustrated with my slow progress! Either way - as they used to say at the end of Dad's Army, 'Thank Your for watching' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofanenvelope Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Guess it's down to the time you have available. Stop working and you have all the time in the world, but no money As always I look forward to your updates here and on Frankland.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MrSimon Posted March 2, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 2, 2014 I've found I'm a much slower modeller in London than when I lived elsewhere, it eats your modelling time! Also, I've always found learning new modelling skills to take time. I think you've done really well to get 9 brass coaches doing laps of Frankland - self propelled - in a year after starting from scratch. I used Humbrol Model Filler on the tram and it seemed easy to shape and smooth once it had dried - shame it's dark grey! Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Clever use of OO fencing for footboards - like it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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