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N gauge LSWR 3-Sub


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Hi Mark

 

Cyano is just short for cyanoacrylate - or superglue.

 

As an alternative to "lock" everything together have you considered soaking the bogie in Johnson's Klear floor cleaner?  I use it quite a lot as a gloss varnish, but it's very strong, self-levelling and slightly flexible.  I've used it in the past to "seal" brass detail parts onto plastic surfaces, to ensure they aren't pulled away during a moulding process.

 

cheers and merry Xmas

 

Ben A.

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Thank you for your replies gents. Appreciated :)

 

Izzy - it seems with the motor bogies the wheels are retained within the motor sub-housing by their cog wheels (sorry for lack of the proper word - I am quite ignorant in some respects!) ... the reason for reducing the outer frame to minimal (or not at all preferably) is so that when I add the etched frames (with axle boxes, conductor-shoe-bars etc) , the overall width stays within gauge.  

 

I did notice that with the Farish bogie frames,  simply sticking things to them without filing off existing detail made everything too wide, and ditto with the real power bogies.

 

I hope that makes sense / I hope I haven;t misunderstood your suggestion :)

 

What is Cryno btw ? A fuller?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Mark

 

Hi Mark,

 

Sorry about using the cryno shorthand, and thanks to Ben A for explaining. With regard to the Johnson's Klear, may I advise caution, as I tried the latest stuff/version on recommendation only to find the formula has changed, and it's now not the same product as in the past according to those who have used it before.

 

With regard to the motor bogie outer frame I know exactly what you mean re the overall width, but in my experience with these Farish bogies, the basic design of which is used in all their diesels, the outer frame acts as a keeper plate to retain the geared axles securely in place. The axles do just 'plug in' to the unit but are sometimes looser than others and can come out under load. However, if you  cut off the outer sides you can still fix a sub frame to the back and front. This is what I did with my Class 15 diesel and am currently doing with a Farish DMU power unit which will be used in a 309 EMU I am building.

 

To illustrate here are some shots of the Farish DMU power unit (out of one of the twin motor parcel units as yours and basically for anyone else reading this thread) followed by one of my Class 15 outer bogies, just made up out of added scraps of brass, N/S and plasticard. I am sure we are thinking along the same lines, but it might help with some ideas about how best to tackle it.

 

post-12706-0-36116900-1419585949.jpg

 

post-12706-0-43923500-1419585969_thumb.jpg

 

post-12706-0-85432900-1419585986_thumb.jpg

 

post-12706-0-68013700-1419586001_thumb.jpg

 

post-12706-0-06063000-1419586014.jpg

 

Cheers,

 

Izzy

Edited by Izzy
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Thank you very much indeed Izzy - that's a great help. I hadn't realised the frames unclipped like that. I've just unclipped mine and suddenly the way ahead is much clearer :)

 

It'll also make cleaning easier.

 

I appreciate your taking time to explain in detail and post photos. Thank you again.

 

 

--------------------

 

 

Your work on the Class 15 bogie is incredibly detailed, very impressive!

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  • RMweb Gold

Hi Mark, and merry christmas!

 

Glad to see you're persevering with the 3-sub, it's clearly paying off. I'm very iimpressed with the close-ups, not many modellers can display such neatness at this close range with the scale you are working in.

 

BTW I like the coins (especially the Farthings  ;) ).

Edited by Mikkel
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Thank you very much indeed Izzy - that's a great help. I hadn't realised the frames unclipped like that. I've just unclipped mine and suddenly the way ahead is much clearer :)

 

It'll also make cleaning easier.

 

I appreciate your taking time to explain in detail and post photos. Thank you again.

 

 

--------------------

 

Your work on the Class 15 bogie is incredibly detailed, very impressive!

Just glad to be able to help. Thanks for the kind remarks.

 

This whole thread of yours is impressive, and inspiring to many such as myself, and I'm looking forward to seeing the 3-sub finished and working as I'm sure are others (no pressure then!).

 

regards,

 

Izzy

Edited by Izzy
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Hi Mark,

 

The finishing line must be in sight now! At this rate you will have the units ready in time to celebrate the centenary of their introduction to passenger service. (No pressure there then either.) A century of Southern style third rail electric-who would have thought it?

 

All the best,

 

Colin

Edited by Colin parks
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Yes Mark, I'm sure you can do it!

 

Only another forty more years (must check that fact!) and the third rail system will have surpassed the time that steam haulage reigned on Britain's railways.....

 

All the best,

 

Colin

Edited by Colin parks
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  • 4 months later...

LSWR 3-Sub 24

Real life has left me with little time for modelling the last few months. I have got a few small bits done, so here's an update.

 

I'm nearly there with the 'kit of parts' for the six driving cars.

First were the headcode stencils / boxes.

3-Sub-223a-Headcode-box_zpsg3lku56q.jpg


I had thought about trying to make these from Microstrip or similar, with a computer printout headcode., but knowing this is going to be a major focal point on the units, I realised it would need to be something relatively neat, crisp and presentable, which was probably beyond my ability using plasticard and Mex pak.

Alan Docherty of Worlsey Works fame very kindly agreed to make some etches for me, and here they are in the picture below.

Top left is plain headcode 'F'

Top middle is 'F + dot',

Top right 'F + dash'.

Lower down you'll see 'blank' (rear of train).

3-Sub-223-Headcode-etches_zpsijrlgajx.jp

The idea is that I can use a mix of dry-brushing and osmosis to paint the black enamel stencil / white background.

Anyway, the next picture shows a couple of them glued on thin Plasticard and cut out.
I think they'll look good when finished. They have the sort of fine definition I could never have achieved with plastic or card at home.


3-Sub-224-Headcode-etches_zpsqpl1bvub.jp


Before moving on:

A question about the headcodes ...
 

On the prototype at the front of each unit was the headcode indicating route (F for eg) - and at the rear a blank (end of train). At a terminus the stencils (and tail lamp) swop ends.

 

My layout is a roundy, so on the surface having front and rear indicators permanantly fixed in place isn't a problem as such.

But what about when I run the units into the carriage sidings? Or if I have a future layout incorporating a terminus?

Then I'd need to turn the units by hand.

I'd read that some people have the route indicator at both ends of the train and ignore the fact there's no 'rear of train' so they can run them in both directions at whim.

But that means you never see the proper rear-of-train indicators.

 

I'm wondering what are peoples' thoughts on this quandary?

For now I'm thinking of having two units with proper 'front and back', and one unit with two 'fronts'.


---------------------------------------------------------


Well returnig to the matter in hand. Next are the connector boxes for the jumper cables. They have various lips and flanges to them ... (remember the photos from NRM York are of a later unit from the one I am modelling, so some details / positions are different - but they're good pointers).


3-Sub-225-jumper-cables_zpshqjb588c.jpg



... I'd never be able to reproduce those details so small.

 

But equally think these items are much less of a focal point than the headcodes and therefore a more abstract representation would be acceptable.

 

I played around quite a bit with different gauges of Microstrip in various combinations (lots in the bin) ... and eventually realised in this instance 'less-is-more'.

 

I ended up with a plain cube of 040 x 040 Microstrip with a 0.5mm slither of adhesive address label stuck acorss the top half of one face. The slither creates a slight shadow suggesting a little more 'substance' or surface variation to the item.

 

The next photo shows cubes of 040 x 040 at the top, and below that a series of them stuck to a strip of the adhesive label. These were later snipped off.

3-Sub-226-jumper-cables_zpswjmh2g1e.jpg


The following photo shows the result. I don't think they look too bad (imagining once they're painted).

They're pictured on the side of a train just so I could see how they were looking.

The slice of pastic rod on the right needs to be a size smaller I think.

I little pip of glue where the cables connect to the boxes should suffice to represent the connections (again, once painted ... fingers crossed).


3-Sub-227-jumper-cables_zpscre29qow.jpg



-------------------------------------------------------



Next up are the large grab handles to either side of the doors to the drivers compartment and guards compartment.


3-Sub-228-Grab-handles_zpsdqfmo1yc.jpg


For similar reasons to above I decided to simplify these. Firstly I cut small lengths of 5amp fuse wire.

3-Sub-229-Grab-handles_zpswy57ciwd.jpg



Then tapped them together between to rules to straighten them up, and used a screwdeiver to bend a dog leg on the right hand end.


3-Sub-230-Grab-handles_zps3jfzzyaf.jpg



Next I did likewise on the left side.


3-Sub-231-Grab-handles_zpsahskwa79.jpg


I used an odd bit of brass and screwdriver to create the reverse curve at one end ...


3-Sub-232-Grab-handles_zpsdfcmpwlk.jpg


And the turned it over and did the other end.


3-Sub-233-Grab-handles_zpsy2mn0tg8.jpg
 

 

Below is the first batch. I know they're not perfect, but I think once they've had undercoat / a couple of topcoats / the highlights picked out with a fine brush / varnished, they just become a small detail you hardly notice, apart from the fact they are there (if that makes sense).


3-Sub-234-Grab-handles_zpsx6ovk4ld.jpg



 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Just checking my To-Do list: Still to come are the windscreen wipers and whistle, which will be represented by a little strip of something as they're barely noticeable.

 

Buffers, coupling hooks, lamp irons.

 

A few odd door handles have come off and need to be replaced.

 

Three interiors (six are done) plus glazing throughout.

 

The motormen.

 

The cosmetic element of the three 'real' motor bogies.

 

Then onto wiring / painting / decals / varnishing assembly.

 

I'm over the hill in terms of work-to-do, it's just finding the time!

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

Well that's the update.

 

Hope eveyone had a good Bank Holiday :)

Mark

Edited by Southernboy
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  • 1 month later...

3-Sub Update 25



I've had a couple of days off work so pressed ahead with the three non-motorised driving cars.

Here's an example of how they were looking yesterday ...


3-Sub-235-Cab-Primer_zpsldfbhfhd.jpg


... a bit of a mess and difficult to gauge how they would turn out when primed. I must confess I felt much trepidation at this point. Getting the cab fronts right is make-or-break to this project ... they're the defining characteristic face to all that follows ....


But in the event the primer hides a multitude of sins and I'm quite happy with the results :)


3-Sub-236-Cab-Primed_zpsmb8hnryq.jpg



In the picture below: I'm particularly pleased with the headcodes (you can make out the 'F', which will be much clearer when painted). And although largely out-of-focus, I really do think adding door and grab handles makes all the difference to the model - well worth the effort in my view. Likewise the verticals running along the solebar which support the running board - visually they really add authenticity. There are a few other details you can't make out at present (windscreen wiper and whistle) which I hope will be more evident when picked-out in final painting).


3-Sub-237-Cab-Primed_zpsufb8h4vi.jpg



Last photo below ... truss bars are still to add, the bogie needs screwing slightly closer to the underframe - and the bogie retaining bolt could do with a lick of paint to disguise it ... but generally I'm quite chuffed with how things have turned out.



3-Sub-238-Cab-Primed_zpskgdllxyl.jpg

 

 

There are a couple of details omitted, or compromised, but for good reason - and on the whole they are details that only the afficicado would pick-up on - I'm quite happy with the compromises I've made.

If anyone wants to get into the details please feel free to PM me :)


So next job will be the three motorised driving cars: These are already half-way there - many of the bespoke fittings have been made previously and I've dry-run most of the assembly. It's just finding the time, oh, and then learning to use an airbrush - somethings else I need to get to grips with - but all part of the learning curve, and not to be rushed!

Thanks for following :)

 

Mark

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  • 1 month later...

3-Sub Update 26

 

 

Sometimes it's just nice to sit back and look at what you've done.

 

This afternoon I got to the point where I could prime the three (to be motorised) driving cars.  That means I finally have three, primed, sets of 3-Subs, ready to paint. 

 

 

So I just had to take a few photos of what feels like a milestone  ...
 

 

3-Sub-240-three-primed-sets_zpssdhkptld.

 

 

 

 

I love the uniformity - all three exactly the same.

 

 

 

 

 

3-Sub-241-three-primed-sets_zpsbtermpng.

 

 

 

 

People in Frankland like uniformity, and conformity too. 

 

I can just picture these lined up in the Frankland carriage sidings. Rumour has it that when inaugurated the new service will run at 20 minutes intervals (on the hour, 20 past and 20 to) - but we shall see.

 

 

 

3-Sub-242-three-primed-sets_zpsopf344i1.

 

 

 

To one side on my desk: The interiors are 90% finished, the motormen are selected and need painting, motors to wire, glazing to sort, all those are odd jobs really.

 

The main thing now is airbrushing and applying decals.  I hope the decals are still  ok - I bought them 18 months ago thinking I'd be using them very soon after. 

 

And I think I may need a few more enamels. In particular I don't have a 'lead white' which I believe LSWR / Southern used on the rooves (  I'll weather it down a bit ). I looked at Phoenix and couldn't see lead white - any suggestions any one?.

 

Apart from that - it's just learning to use the airbrush - not used one before, but then again I hadn't soldered until a couple of years ago - wish me luck!  :)

 

All the best,

 

Mark

Edited by Southernboy
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Hello Mark,

 

Lovely job with these - the uniformity is very pleasing!

 

With regard to Lead White, I suspect it may just be a nod to the fact that the paint was lead based, and that once lightly weathered with some roof dirt any "clean" white would do, however I could be wrong.

 

EDIT:  Looks like you got two versions of a similar answer!

 

cheers

 

Ben

Edited by Ben A
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Hello RMWebbers,

 

Many thanks indeed for your comments and 'likes' - always very much appreciated :)

 

On the subject of 'Lead White' - I was using the term more as a general colour reference much as you would 'Maunsell Green' or 'BR Blue'.  It was just I couldn't find something suitable on the Phoenix website - and had been reading much about how Humbrol Enamels (the obvious alternative) had changed their formula and were to now be definitely avoided.

 

Two of the three 3-Subs will represent recently out-shopped units in the new SR livery, so would have relatively clean rooves (white with a hint of weathering). The other unit will be older (and still in LSWR livery) , so will have the more familar darker rooves. Anyway, I'm sure I'll find a suitable paint.

 

KeithHC:

Just out of interest I have Mon 25 Oct 1915 as the first day of operation ('The Riverside Electrics / South Western Monograph No. 5 / p86). 

 

--------------------

 

On a related note for interest: In the same publication (p60) I have E4 as the first completed unit out of Eastleigh - E4 is the unit I have modelled in LSWR colours.

 

The other two units that will be in SR livery are those that immediately followed E4 in sequence, but with their SR numbers.

 

Well, with a layout largely based on imagination like mine, you do need to pretend there's at least some semblance of logic in what you're doing / foundation in historical research - otherwise how will Frankland ever be taken seriously? :scratchhead: :)

 

Thanks again,

 

Mark

Edited by Southernboy
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On the subject of 'Lead White' - I was using the term more as a general colour reference much as you would 'Maunsell Green' or 'BR Blue'.  

 

Two of the three 3-Subs will represent recently out-shopped units in the new SR livery, so would have relatively clean rooves (white with a hint of weathering). The other unit will be older (and still in LSWR livery) , so will have the more familar darker rooves. Anyway, I'm sure I'll find a suitable paint.

 

I like the GW Ulthuan Grey colour for a fresh roof. It's pretty much white, but definitely not white (and nothing like the greenish hue that is on colour swatches). 

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I like the GW Ulthuan Grey colour for a fresh roof. It's pretty much white, but definitely not white (and nothing like the greenish hue that is on colour swatches). 

Rich, I assume that is Games Workshop Ulthuan Grey as opposed to Great Western!

 

Mark, the units are looking really good and like the rest of your work, difficult to believe its only 2mm scale.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello all,

 

just a quick question to the more knowledgeable and experienced out there in RMWebLand.

 

Probably next weekend I'll start practicing with my airbrush - and once happy that I'm reasonably competent - spray the 3-Subs.

 

My inclination is to first spray rooves and coach ends, and after that spray the cab fronts and carriage sides. My reasoning is:

1) The front and sides are focal points, whilst

2) The rooves and carriages ends are lesser focal points, so a little touching-up later if over-sprayed will be not so noticeable.

 

Hopefully there'll be no over-spraying at all, as I'll use masking tape - but my question is 'just in case' (being new to airbrushing).

There's usually some sort of received-wisdom for such things.

 

Obviously bogies and underframes will be separate so are not an issue.

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

Mark

Edited by Southernboy
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Hello all,

 

just a quick question to the more knowledgeable and experienced out there in RMWebLand.

 

Probably next weekend I'll start practicing with my airbrush - and once happy that I'm reasonably competent - spray the 3-Subs.

 

My inclination is to first spray rooves and coach ends, and after that spray the cab fronts and carriage sides. My reasoning is:

1) The front and sides are focal points, whilst

2) The rooves and carriages ends are lesser focal points, so a little touching-up later if over-sprayed will be not so noticeable.

 

Hopefully there'll be no over-spraying at all, as I'll use masking tape - but my question is 'just in case' (being new to airbrushing).

There's usually some sort of received-wisdom for such things.

 

Obviously bogies and underframes will be separate so are not an issue.

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

Mark

 

I would do it in the order you suggest. I find that when painting coaches, I don't want to be touching up the sides in case any over-spray creeps in on to them. So I do the roof and ends first, then mask, spray the sides, and then touch up roof and end if I got anything wrong or the masking tape pulls any paint off.

 

This orderm also works if (like me) you cheat and spray your roof and ends with spray cans from Halfords.

 

But I would say this. In 2mm/N, people will spend a lot of time looking at the roofs of your coaches as they run through the landscape. So it pays to get these right. And with all those lovely conduits on the roof, you want people to admire them.

 

Chris

Edited by Chris Higgs
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Thanks Chris. Very much appreciated :)

 

I was thinking of somehow slightly (and subtly) accentuating the conduits and their fixings as I spent some time ensuring they were reasonably correctly modelled. Probably a little dry-brushing will do the trick.

 

Your comment about "... people will spend a lot of time looking at the roofs of your coaches.. " is totally correct of course, but equally I like to get close-up-and-personal with bogies and underframes when it comes to photography, so I'll apply an equal level of attention there.

 

Thanks again for your feedback.

 

Mark

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Help!

 

Hello all,

 

This week I received delivery of a range of paints from Phoenix Precision (very helpful people), and today was about to start airbrushing for the very first time (well practice airbrushing). But have fallen at the first hurdle.

I can't get the tin of thinners open!

Phoenix-Thinners-01_zpsju995zpb.jpg

I unscrewed the lid, and there's an inner-seal as you can see in the picture above. The gap between that and the threaded bit is thinner than my finger nail, so I can't prise it out.

Am I supposed to puncture / drill through it?

Sounds daft I know, but I really can't make sense of it. And I don't want to to do the wrong thing either.

 

Being a Bank Holiday weekend I can't ring Phoenix until Tuesday - and I'd really hoped to make a start today.

Anyone know what I'm supposed to do?

 

Many thanks in advance,

Mark

Edited by Southernboy
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