New Mk1 coach

[brushman47544]

At a recommended retail price of £36,50 the consumer would expect the running numbers, coach crests and set numbers to tally. This is about twice the price that Hattons are selling Bachmann Mk1 coaches for.

 

To satisfy its customers buying BR Mk1 green the choice facing Hornby seems to be:

 

to produce a Royal Wessex set with the coach crests, the correct running numbers and no set number,

 

to produce Set 869 with the correct running numbers and no coach crests or to produce

I agree it would be unfortunate if Hornby didn't ensure the details tallied when the information is so readily available. As to the Royal Wessex coaches, on past form I would have expected them to appear in a Train Set with, most likely, a MN,WC of BB loco. Wasn't their inclusion in Train Sets one of the reasons cited by Hornby for producing its new Mk1s?

[Robin Brasher]

Hornby could produce a Royal Wessex train set for the Swanage Railway with a pull-push set, an M7 and a Mk1 BR green composite and brake second with coach crests and Royal Wessex Swanage-Waterloo headboards but it would cost a fortune: about £240 just for a train pack.

[steve1023]

I don't want roundels on the green Mk1's, because as brushman has said, they are inaccurate for the set illustrated by Hornby.

 

I'm not looking for an arguement with you Robin but your constant posting on this is becoming tiresome, aswell as inaccurate. The coach in your image wasn't even a SR coach - I believe it was a midland region vehicle for most of it's life.

 

Given the sense of feeling regarding the shade of green on the Bachmann Mk1 (doesn't offend me to be honest - I'm hoping Bachmann release a model of CK 15915 in the same shade of green so I can have the full 6 car set 525 - without roundels so far thank goodness) I think Hornby stand more chance of getting sales on the green ones, but only if they are accurate (preferably without lights). I don' t believe for one minute that with the possible exception of you that anybody has pre-ordered these just because of the roundel. If you say Mr Kohler says they will come with crests, perhaps I should email him to let him know he's lost 4 sales here if they come with crests. Sorry mate but I want them to be accurate.

 

Steve.

[Robin Brasher]

I would be grateful if someone would let me know where Set 869 ran. I understand that it was transferred to the Waterloo to West of England services but I am not clear what this means. Does it mean the area covered by the former London and South Western Railway or does it mean Waterloo to Devon and Cornwall?

[Robin Brasher]

I don't want roundels on the green Mk1's, because as brushman has said, they are inaccurate for the set illustrated by Hornby.

 

I'm not looking for an arguement with you Robin but your constant posting on this is becoming tiresome, aswell as inaccurate. The coach in your image wasn't even a SR coach - I believe it was a midland region vehicle for most of it's life.

 

Given the sense of feeling regarding the shade of green on the Bachmann Mk1 (doesn't offend me to be honest - I'm hoping Bachmann release a model of CK 15915 in the same shade of green so I can have the full 6 car set 525 - without roundels so far thank goodness) I think Hornby stand more chance of getting sales on the green ones, but only if they are accurate (preferably without lights). I don' t believe for one minute that with the possible exception of you that anybody has pre-ordered these just because of the roundel. If you say Mr Kohler says they will come with crests, perhaps I should email him to let him know he's lost 4 sales here if they come with crests. Sorry mate but I want them to be accurate.

 

Steve.

When the debate about coach crests began no-one knew what numbers Hornby would put on the coaches and one would expect the coach numbers to tally with coaches with coach crests. Clearly as the coach numbers do not tally with the Royal Wessex coaches with crests Hornby should either remove the crests or change the numbers. Ideally Hornby would produce one set without crests with Set 869 written on the ends of the set and another set with crests and the correct numbers for the Royal Wessex.

 

The coach in my image was built at Wolverhampton in 1963 entered service on the London Midland Region as M35464. Now it has been restored as a Southern Region coach with a crest it is just as worthy to be represented as a model as SDJR 7F 288 and Canadian Pacific both in blue.

 

The problem with Bachmann's shade of green is that it does not match Bachmann's original shade or Hornby's shade so Bachmann's present green coaches look out of place with the former coaches. This probably accounts for the poor sales with 39-078E BSK Brake Second Corridor and 39-128C CK Corridor Composite no longer being available new and being available second hand for between £20 and £25. If anyone wants BR SR coaches without crests and lights the obvious solution is to buy some second hand Bachmann coaches.

 

The factor that is most likely to deter people buying Hornby BR Mk1 green coaches is their price and the fact they are only available with lights.

[royaloak]

At a recommended retail price of £36,50 the consumer would expect the running numbers, coach crests and set numbers to tally. This is about twice the price that Hattons are selling Bachmann Mk1 coaches for.

So you are comparing Hornbys RRP with retailer discounted Bachmann prices, thats a fair comparison!

[Multiple identity account 2]

At a recommended retail price of £36,50 the consumer would expect the running numbers, coach crests and set numbers to tally. This is about twice the price that Hattons are selling Bachmann Mk1 coaches for.

 

 

I have gotta agree with everyone else, you made a very unfair and inaccurate comparison.

[Robin Brasher]

I have gotta agree with everyone else, you made a very unfair and inaccurate comparison.

Hattons are selling the Bachmann 39-153C BR Mk1 FK for £15 compared with a discounted price of £33.80 for a Hornby  green Mk1. Perhaps a fairer comparison would be to compare the recommended retail prices of £28.35 for a Bachmann BR Mk1 green CK with £36.50 for a Hornby BR Mk1 green CK.

 

The main point at issue is that Hornby should make sure that the running number of an expensive coach should tally with the type of coach they are making.

[newbryford]

Hattons are selling the Bachmann 39-153C BR Mk1 FK for £15 compared with a discounted price of £33.80 for a Hornby  green Mk1. Perhaps a fairer comparison would be to compare the recommended retail prices of £28.35 for a Bachmann BR Mk1 green CK with £36.50 for a Hornby BR Mk1 green CK.

 

 

Still not a fair comparison. Generally, new releases aren't cheap or discounted heavily as demand is usually good for a new model. Prices will normally be discounted further as demand tails off and the retailer wants to shift stock. Give it 12-18 months and you may see Hornby Mk1's at £15.

 

I've bought new Bachmann Mk1's at £10-11 (about 12 months ago) if they happen to be of an "unwanted" prototype - in my case Regional Railways liveried NEA full brakes.

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Multiple identity account 2]

Perhaps a fairer comparison would be to compare the recommended retail prices of £28.35 for a Bachmann BR Mk1 green CK with £36.50 for a Hornby BR Mk1 green CK.

 

 

Right so you are trying to compare a Bachmann coach selling for 28.35 which is no doubt detailed to a Hornby coach which is fairly detailed and with a good paint finish etc. and has fitted lights selling for 36.50.....?

 

I think I give up trying to explain something very simple to you.

 

A word of advice - if you don't like what Hornby is offering then why moan so much about it? Go for your favorite cheaper Bachmann versions and don't buy the Hornby version. No one is forcing you to by even a single coach.

[frobisher]

Perhaps a fairer comparison would be to compare the recommended retail prices of £28.35 for a Bachmann BR Mk1 green CK with £36.50 for a Hornby BR Mk1 green CK.

Indeed. Though let's see what the 2014 RRP of the Bachmann items will be (but I doubt they will be more than the £36.50 of the Hornby ones).

 

I suspect we're victims of our own wishes here. Over the last year or two, I've lost count of the number of posts on the subject of Southern Region Green and how Hornby had got it right, and Bachmann had continually got it wrong, and how many would be prepared to buy MK1's in the correct green if Hornby produced them, even for a premium. And look see what premium MK1's Hornby have produced this year...

[orcadian]

Indeed. Though let's see what the 2014 RRP of the Bachmann items will be (but I doubt they will be more than the £36.50 of the Hornby ones).

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that 'wait and see' is a very good idea for the next few months, but eventhen, we should compare like with like. The Hornby Southern Mk 1's are currently listed as coming with lighting fitted. Will Bachmann duplicate this, I wonder?

 

(Slightly o/t, I'd prefer my Hornby SReg Mk 1s not to have lighting but that's a personal preference!)

 

Richard

[brushman47544]

I suspect we're victims of our own wishes here. Over the last year or two, I've lost count of the number of posts on the subject of Southern Region Green and how Hornby had got it right, and Bachmann had continually got it wrong, and how many would be prepared to buy MK1's in the correct green if Hornby produced them, even for a premium. And look see what premium MK1's Hornby have produced this year...

 

Exactly - but as you say for a premium price and as Robin says...

 

The main point at issue is that Hornby should make sure that the running number of an expensive coach should tally with the type of coach they are making.

 

...which I also agree with. For that price the number and livery details should be accurate but based on its website images, Hornby risks getting it wrong. Whilst I might have a go at changing livery details on a Railroad priced model, I not prepared to risk making a hash of what is going to be an expensive coach, four times over.

[Dunsignalling]

This diverges a bit from the discussion of the application or non-application of BR coach roundels to SR green Mark 1s. 

 

Hornby haven't put them on the WR brown / cream Railroad ones I saw in my local model shop earlier today.

 

I'm open to being corrected if the WR also considered them optional, but that livery just doesn't look right to me without them.

 

John

[Legend]

As posted before, I am really impressed with these coaches and have now bought all 6 currently available to supplement my Bachmann rakes and maybe even supplant some Bachmann coaches as I find Hornby have less phantom uncouplings and derailments than Bachmann over my undulating track. However I am a bit perplexed over the range offered in 2014. Per the new catalogue the SO is being offered in crimson and cream,but it's the only one. Meanwhile there is no SO in chocolate and Cream. Is there any reason for this?

[orcadian]

This diverges a bit from the discussion of the application or non-application of BR coach roundels to SR green Mark 1s. 

 

Hornby haven't put them on the WR brown / cream Railroad ones I saw in my local model shop earlier today.

 

I'm open to being corrected if the WR also considered them optional, but that livery just doesn't look right to me without them.

 

John

John, you've intrigued me!

 

I've just thumbed through about 8 Ian Allan photo albums, and it would seem that in 1959 there were some choc & cream Mk 1's without roundels, but the majority do seem to be carrying them, especially the BSKs (?BCKs - I didn't look at this detail!).  By 1961, it looks to me as though all the photographed choc & cream stock, with the exception of the 'lettered' catering vehicles carried the coaching stock roundel.  Perhaps someone needs to alert Fox transfers (other suppliers are available!) that they may get an increase in demand for these!

 

Richard

[Multiple identity account 2]

 

 

Hornby haven't put them on the WR brown / cream Railroad ones I saw in my local model shop earlier today.

 

 

John

The BR Choc/Cream ones that Hornby produced were part of the railroad range. So that meant less livery decoration.

 

The SR versions probably have the roundels because it's in the main range and Hornby are willing to add as much of the livery details as possible on what is otherwise a plain green coach.

[brushman47544]

The SR versions probably have the roundels because it's in the main range and Hornby are willing to add as much of the livery details as possible on what is otherwise a plain green coach.

 

Let's not go round the whole debate again. The problem is that the BR green ones shouldn't have roundels based on the coach numbers shown. Very few BR green coaches had them, whereas most Choc/Cream WR ones did. As main range, Hornby should get the coaches right, so remove the roundels or change the coach numbers (and limit their prototypical use considerably).

[Hilux5972]

The pics are pre production. Why don't you just wait until they come out before getting into the debate again.

[Metr0Land]

The pics are pre production. Why don't you just wait until they come out before getting into the debate again.

 

Am guessing that for some people with the recent supply disruptions they're caught between a rock and hard place.  We know that Hornby frequently issue a model which isn't the same as the advanced catalogue. 

 

So, do you place an advance order with a retailer only to find it's not the model you thought you're ordered, or do you wait until it's released and then find they've flown off the shelves when it did turn out to be a variant you want?

 

(Am not interested in the Mk1 coach but can see this being a potential problem with other yet to be built models)

[Multiple identity account 2]

Let's not go round the whole debate again. The problem is that the BR green ones shouldn't have roundels based on the coach numbers shown. Very few BR green coaches had them, whereas most Choc/Cream WR ones did. As main range, Hornby should get the coaches right, so remove the roundels or change the coach numbers (and limit their prototypical use considerably).

Never wanted to start any debate at all...!??

 

Just gave an opinion as to what Hornby might have been thinking, they have had incorrect names and liveries on models before so why don't you'll wait till it is released or if you are worried about the incorrect image tell Simon. I spoke to him about the NR Class 47 and MML HSTs and he was positive with feedback.

 

I agree with what you say about the accuracy as it is for the main range but I have no clue why you think I want to start a debate?

[brushman47544]

Never wanted to start any debate at all...!??

 

Just gave an opinion as to what Hornby might have been thinking, they have had incorrect names and liveries on models before so why don't you'll wait till it is released or if you are worried about the incorrect image tell Simon. I spoke to him about the NR Class 47 and MML HSTs and he was positive with feedback.

 

I agree with what you say about the accuracy as it is for the main range but I have no clue why you think I want to start a debate?

 

Tried to send you a PM but blocked.

 

I chose my words carefully, using "Let's ..." so that the comment wasn't directed at you personally. The issues including those you mentioned already been discussed earlier in the thread and I was simply suggesting we don't reopen the debate about how the coaches may/should look until we know more from Hornby.

[Venator]

I'm just pleased that Hornby have added some non Pullman coaches with lights into their range. Yes £33-£36 is a bit of a premium but it's something I'm willing to pay for. Those who are not could, presumably, fit the lights to a Bachmann MK1?

 

I always pre order because I don't want to get caught out and then suffer even higher Ebay prices.

[Hilux5972]

The coaches that have lights are also available without them which is good. Gives people the option ad buying models if they don't want lights.

[S.A.C Martin]

The pics are pre production. Why don't you just wait until they come out before getting into the debate again.

 

Because the entire point of a pre-production model is to check whether or not it is correct and ready for production. If you spot something wrong physically at the pre-production stage, chances are you can't modify the tooling but liveries can and have been changed as a result of feedback by modellers in the pre-production stage.

 

Lord knows, everyone and their mother will moan if they come out with a livery howler, why not be constructive and give them feedback which would lead to an improved product?