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Great Gathering A4 Collection


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No sign of my cabinet as yet. I sent in the vouchers on 31st December, have spoken to Eileen at Picture Pride Displays four times, have emailed Hornby Customer Care twice and I am still none the wiser! PPD say that Hornby go and collect them and then send them out. Seems like the usual chaos and confusion does not just apply to China!

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... in any case a spot of research back at the time of their liquidation showed that basically the original company was little more than a name and separate set of books working out of the same premises as Handbourn's - they seemingly being the original parent company and the concern which actually made the cabinets.

This is incorrect.  Handbourn Cabinets Limited are a new company, incorporated on the 22nd July last year, four days before Picture Pride Displays Limited declared insolvency.

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This is incorrect.  Handbourn Cabinets Limited are a new company, incorporated on the 22nd July last year, four days before Picture Pride Displays Limited declared insolvency.

So,I take it you are another in the list of those who have not received the display cabinet ? I would suggest a more vigorous approach to Hornby is needed.This is a great shame and a pity that Picture Pride are perhaps having their reputation somewhat tarnished as a result of the sorry saga of "The Great Guttering".

Three of their display cabinets sit proudly on my upstairs landing and have hung there displaying a portion of my collection since 1998.I remain very pleased with them.On contains Dominion of Canada and Dwight D Eisenhower from the G.G.I was fortunate to view their prototypes in the rain at Barrow Hill on the 9th.

I sincerely wish that the matter is speedily resolved for all concerned.

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Maybe a different name but it was all the same company at the same address when the change took place last year.

 

Unfortunately they may now have problems with the trade suppliers who were left out of pocket when they decided to liquidate last year.  The likelihood is that they are now having to pay their suppliers in advance which makes for a considerably tougher trading environment.  I very much doubt that Hornby have offered them any advance on the cabinets ahead of delivery.

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Email from Hornby saying they have a final few GG sets to sell.... having previously 'sold out'. Phonelines open next Wednesday.

 

In other news, the Great Goodbye box sleeves (5 of 6) are on display at Shildon this week. Rather handsome with a garter blue theme rather than the previous red. Just the sleeves, no boxes. Stupidly I didn't get any pictures.

A GG set is being used to advertise Great Goodbye pre-orders from locomotion models. In the flesh they don't look as bad as on here. But nonetheless, the are still not quite correct.

 

Interestingly however, the 'lopsided' OHL flash on 60009, may not have been a factory error. I can guess it was specified by Hornby, given their reference to photographs. Sadly as with the rest of the other OHL flashes, it represents 2009, not 2013/4. Slanted sign is shown here:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23119954@N07/3672801132/in/photolist-6Ay4Ps-6hvSK1-7KRBpF-6hw173-6hrNH8-6hvUBm-6hrLNc-dS8Jot-dXbEjj-ijM2Kn-eLWpGV-ijM1LD-fb14dW-6UK5ov-dohswn-kfmusZ-fFJtHW-4ED2aG-6UKcLR-6UPdHw-6UK3iX-6UM2KH-6UL5Va-6UQ3H3-iAyYyG-6UPpcY-6UR7py-6UPodY-dVeCSe-ik4qqU-fNcUeN-eEroEF-dm6spc-ed9HEC-iAMi9T-d7CF5m-edS6jM-5d9TLz-7iVPRC-f2LMDz-g27MBi-d3XNoh-fovLA5-exA5sk-eWqDdx-f8RN2Z-f96iQN-dRJ6RG-f8PZ9u-6UKZJ4-dxRgEZ

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Bachmann have just upgraded their A4 chassis. They should have done a complete retool, with a laser scanned body. This would have been an 'ultimate' A4, and possibly pick up subtleties in shape that Hornby missed. Valve gear aside (where Bachmann's mix of etched and cast parts looks better) there are a few areas where Bachmann could trump Hornby, but will they at any point soon? I'd say a it will be a decade at least. If it was on the agenda, they would have done it for Mallard 75 to capitalise on sales. I'd say the Hornby A4, even after 9 nears, is still very good, too good for Bachmann to commercially challenge.

 

Not totally correct on the models not being done before, certainly by Hornby. Indeed none of these models have been produced in their present condition by Hornby. Even 60009 when last done had a Streamlined not 1928 (or actually 1929) corridor tender. My purchase is based on the fact that Hornby has not produced an 'as preserved' A4 in the 9 years this model has been in production, and now all 6 come along at once!

 

As for value - clearly there's no guarantee. What appears to be the case is that the 'additional' 500 probably won't be identical to the first 500, so they should be distinct models. We shall see.

Clearly a totally mint set of either issue will be worth something in 20-30 years time, but that would obviously be unused.

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As for value - clearly there's no guarantee. What appears to be the case is that the 'additional' 500 probably won't be identical to the first 500, so they should be distinct models. We shall see.

Clearly a totally mint set of either issue will be worth something in 20-30 years time, but that would obviously be unused.

 

To be honest I doubt if a different box will make much difference! Basically there will be 1000 of each produced, which hardly qualifies as a limited edition!

 

In 20-30 years time, what sort of condition will the be in even if stored unused? Will the plastic have gone brittle and crack at the slightest provocation?

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To be honest I doubt if a different box will make much difference! Basically there will be 1000 of each produced, which hardly qualifies as a limited edition!

 

In 20-30 years time, what sort of condition will the be in even if stored unused? Will the plastic have gone brittle and crack at the slightest provocation?

What sort of condition is any model in after 20 years time? My 1992 tender drive Flying Scotsman is in pretty good nick. Box rather tired, but model inside is fine. Hardly any difference since when it left Margate! plastic is fine. My 1960 B12, again the body is fine, even if some of the lining has come off. My 2001 MN is still perfect. But then again, we have seen Class 31 chassis disintegrate etc...

 

The messages I and others are getting is that the models themselves will have slight differences. Lets hope at least the lamp irons and number positioning will have been corrected. For the collector, this should qualify as a different model, although I don't know the mindset. If they are identical, I agree, we have a limited edition of 1000. But lets wait and see what actually emerges.

 

What would be interesting to see is IF there are improvements, will the first batch or the second batch be worth more in the long term? The second because it would nominally be more accurate, or the first, because there's a greater chance more people will have tinkered with it, leaving fewer mint examples?

Further question: what will be worth more: a complete set of 6 models PLUS display case, or complete set of six models PLUS vouchers for case?

 

Just an interesting comparison from an investment perspective: Australian Scotsman in 2009, price about £100. Hornby (Archive) recently sold a mint one for £182. Adjusting for inflation, if that had been a private seller, that would have been a £50 profit.

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To be honest I doubt if a different box will make much difference! Basically there will be 1000 of each produced, which hardly qualifies as a limited edition!

 

In 20-30 years time, what sort of condition will the be in even if stored unused? Will the plastic have gone brittle and crack at the slightest provocation?

Survival of any model is entirely dependent upon the conditions in which it is kept. Ambient and indoors are the keywords!

 

Lofts are a particularly bad idea due to severe temperature fluctuations. A late friend of mine stored his lesser-used items that way; most showed visible deterioration after only two or three years and several Mainline/early Bachmann locos (with split axles) had become completely unusable due to the wheels coming loose.

 

As to "collectability", what degree of demand might exist to make model locomotives valuable in 20 or 30 years time is completely unknown as is which ones will be of most interest to a new generation of collectors. It is more likely to be the few surviving examples of "dodgy" items than what we may consider "collectible" right now. Given the thread on the deterioration of Mazak chassis castings, that may present a bigger danger for loco bodies than any inherent weakness in the plastic.

 

In my own case it's not relevant as:

 

1. I buy models for my own pleasure and alter them to my own requirements.

 

2. I may realistically still not be worrying about it in 20 years time! If I last a further ten, I'll be more likely to be rejoicing in that fact than that the value of some of my models might have almost kept up with inflation.

 

John

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Bachmann have just upgraded their A4 chassis. They should have done a complete retool, with a laser scanned body. This would have been an 'ultimate' A4, and possibly pick up subtleties in shape that Hornby missed. Valve gear aside (where Bachmann's mix of etched and cast parts looks better) there are a few areas where Bachmann could trump Hornby, but will they at any point soon? I'd say a it will be a decade at least. If it was on the agenda, they would have done it for Mallard 75 to capitalise on sales. I'd say the Hornby A4, even after 9 nears, is still very good, too good for Bachmann to commercially challenge.

 

Why bother? I own a fair few of the latest Hornby A4's, and even in anything was done by another manufacturer I certainly wouldn't be in a great rush to ditch them and buy others. Only issue I have is that Hornby took a massive backward step with these models by removing the prong drawbar and replacing it with the dreaded 4-pin. I do not wish to simply cut this connection, as others have done, as it is a waste - tender pickups are provided, and you discard them through this. Thats why i'm currently trawling eBay for older models in order to switch chassis blocks with those I have now - its getting hard though, and the price is going up.

 

A much more lucrative option for Bachmann lies in the Thompson Pacifics, of which there is a fair amount of demand. To be honest, I cant see why they havent announced any to date. The conversion from the existing Peppercorn model has been illustrated on here and elsewhere - as far as I can see, its a no-brainer.

 

I saw a SNG as part of this set go for 250 notes on eBay the other week. To be honest, you can keep them for that much - like I say, I plan to pull it apart anyway so i'll be waiting for them to appear on eBay after the market has been diluted by the Great Goodbye sets.

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I hope them that are trying to make a profit fall flat on their faces and backfires on them. I hope it goes like the RTC Test car 6 when they suddenly appeared on ebay the first time around they were going for stupid amounts of money but then Bachmann screwed them by bringing another load out which suddenly dropped the price of them. I still intend on buying the Railroad/Super detail models and buying the parts for them and create my own set. It is more satisfying that way as you get the feeling of achievement and pride in them, more than what you would get from buying an over priced and under-rated model!

 

Also getting the brassmasters kit for them enhances the look of them no end. They give the loco more depth and looking like an A4 instead of the plastic look of the detailing around the wheels on the chassis.

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We'll I noticed Harburn Hobbies had a Great Gathering set at Model Rail Scotland at weekend. 2 days in and it was still there, so given the number of enthusiasts in the place it hardly flew off the shelves. I'm constantly surprised at what people will buy because it's a limited edition. I suspect this bubble has burst

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So what's the consensus people? Will the 510 Great Goodbye Sets Saturate the market and devalue the Great Gathering Sets?  I'm sensing that even with 510 additional sets there will still be more than enough demand.

 

There will probably be demand for the individual models, as A4s are popular, but I'd be surprised if they go for any more second-hand than other newer-tooling Hornby A4s, at least in the short term. In the longer term complete sets might increase in value - who knows? It can be difficult to predict these things in some cases, and this is one of those cases.

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Hi All

For those of you who may be interested, the Great Gathering set of A4's is available over the phone from Hornby again!

 

The phone line number is: 01843 233519 and is open from 5:30pm tonight (Wednesday 26th February).  Once the allocation has been sold the phone lines will close as before.

 

And for those who are still waiting for your GG display cabinet, I chased them up today and I have been advised that the GG cabinet orders are taking between 8 and 10 weeks to complete.  I was also advised that I could change the colour of the doors.  There are 4 options - Maroon (as shown on the vouchers), Black, Blue & BR Green.  These all have a gold inlay on the rim of the door.  They can also supply PECO track to suit the cabinets for an additional cost.

 

Steve

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I have a funny feeling the majority of the sets just sold by Hornby yesterday for £999.99 will make their way on to E-bay for a greater sum, it's a real shame but this seems to be the way some people work.

 

I have a funny feeling the Great Goodbye locos will be on shelves for a long time, it's a lot of A4s to flood the market, esp if Hornby have just got rid of their last sets now.

 

Roy

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I would have bought a Great Goodbye Bittern, really want this loco in this livery, but with the errors re the numbers on the Great Gathering loco I have no faith that this will be corrected, and so have cancelled my pre-order. Once again very little info from Hornby on this. Hopefully they will corect the errors and hopefully the locos will as alluded to above sit on teh shelves so that I can see what the prodcut is like and then place an order, rather than gamble £160 on a loco that may have errors on it.

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I have noted a particular issue with my Great Gathering locos regarding the  black plastic moulding of the tender base, it  is very irregular on the edges, with nicks on the sides. This is very evident on DOC since it has a lining, whereas on  the other locos the problem is present but it is not noticeable since there is no lining. In addition, for some reason the tender tops  do not sit flush on the tender base even when it is screwed in, on 4 out of 6 locos. This type of defect is not present on any of their previous offerings that I have purchased. Has anyone else noted similar issues. I am quite disappointed in the quality of this "premium" product. I have contacted Hornby with a complaint, still awaiting a response. I hope that their corporate philosophy has not changed  and they will honour their garantee .

Hornby DOC tender

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I have noted a particular issue with my Great Gathering locos regarding the  black plastic moulding of the tender base, it  is very irregular on the edges, with nicks on the sides. This is very evident on DOC since it has a lining, whereas on  the other locos the problem is present but it is not noticeable since there is no lining. In addition, for some reason the tender tops  do not sit flush on the tender base even when it is screwed in, on 4 out of 6 locos. This type of defect is not present on any of their previous offerings that I have purchased. Has anyone else noted similar issues. I am quite disappointed in the quality of this "premium" product. I have contacted Hornby with a complaint, still awaiting a response. I hope that their corporate philosophy has not changed  and they will honour their garantee .

I have exactly the same problem on all x5 of my GG models. DDE and Mallard being the worst. The insert on the top of the tender, which forms the water filler on DDE isn't stuck in properly and therefore the tender body has a gap under the rear corner as well as the rear buffer beam is wonky. Mallard has very ireegular bumps on the black edge similar to your photo of DOC. I have spoke to Hornby and they have said to post the tenders back to them and they'd sort it out. I just haven't got round to posting them yet though.

Let me know if you get a response off them.

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Still glad I have not bought this set. My model of Commonwealth of Australia tender is much better quality. Hornby have seem to have let things slip since making the other models. Even the recent railroad models are better than the quality than what is shown in the picture of the tender.

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Life expired moulds or new moulds made of poor quailty or poor quality plastic used ? = poor and sad :blackeye:

 

Normally the moulds should have been checked before using them to make the GG & Great Goodbye. It is really sad to know that Hornby one of the UKs best known model makers is allowing the production and quality of the models to slip so much. It is about time that they got it sorted and be back to the quality they are reknown for. Maybe they should return manufacturing back to the UK.

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