Hornby 'KitKat' van and similar - prototype?

[JohnR]

14 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

True, but it depends what you're trying to achieve. You have done wonders turning them into excellent models of actual vehicles; mine is just a freelance bodge.

 

I'm in the same category - just want something thats not egregiously wrong and looks right.

 

Is that the 15' wooden underframe, c43 or the 16' one, C303?

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, JohnR said:

Is that the 15' wooden underframe, c43 or the 16' one, C303?

 16' - the KitKat van body is 64 mm long. But both underframe kits come with solebars for 15' and 16' length, it's just the floor that's packaged with the kit that is different and you don't need that; the solebars and headstocks are stuck directly to the underside of the van body.

 

I was intending to build a rake of these for my freelance biscuit factory but got distracted into building models of real wagons!

[Poor Old Bruce]

On 01/10/2019 at 09:17, Poor Old Bruce said:

If you are not into kit building new chassis, the Dapol chassis for their rectangular tar tank is a good fit for both the H&B and the L&Y vans. You just have to run a file across the backs of the end stanchions of the H&B van to make it fit (the L&Y van doesn't have such niceties). The chassis are available as spares from Dapol.

 

On 01/10/2019 at 10:27, Ruston said:

Which L&Y vans do you mean?

 

Looks like I owe you a huge apology for not responding at the time Ruston, I must have given up on this thread or got distracted with the knee injury I was suffering (still am for that matter). The L&Y vans I was referring to are the ancient ones introduced under the Trackmaster name by Pyramid Toys and later retooled by Tri-ang and done in 'Big Four' liveries. You probably know the ones I mean but I will try to get some piccies to show you all, I hope it won't take another 18 months to post them!

[Compound2632]

39 minutes ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

The L&Y vans I was referring to are the ancient ones introduced under the Trackmaster name by Pyramid Toys and later retooled by Tri-ang and done in 'Big Four' liveries. 

 

They bear an uncanny resemblance to this (second photo down). One would have to add the roof door detail, good views here.

[Poor Old Bruce]

29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

They bear an uncanny resemblance to this (second photo down). One would have to add the roof door detail, good views here.

 

Thanks Stephen, them's them. I would ask if the roof door was compulsary but it looks like not much more than two or three bits of microstrip and some tarpaulin coloured paint.

[Compound2632]

34 minutes ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

Thanks Stephen, them's them. I would ask if the roof door was compulsary but it looks like not much more than two or three bits of microstrip and some tarpaulin coloured paint.

 

That's what I did when I built the Geen whitemetal kit, though I ruckled up a piece of paper for the tarpaulin. I believe that the tarpaulin covered or had sewn into it a series of battens, to support it over the opening.

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Compound2632
sp.

[Poor Old Bruce]

23 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That's what I did when I built the Geen whitemetal kit, though I ruckled up a piece of paper for the tarpaulin. I believe that the tarpaulin covered or had sewn into it a series of battens, to support it over the opening.

 

 

Something would be needed to support the tarp' otherwise it would just sag like the one in the wagon at the bottom of picture you referenced yesterday. Are there any photos showing open hatches?

[jwealleans]

I don't believe I've ever seen one - it would be an interesting find.

[Compound2632]

Yes, there are some good overhead shots of L&Y goods stations but they're outdoor views. Probably the roof cover would only come off for unloading by crane inside a goods shed or warehouse.

[Poor Old Bruce]

These are the Lanky vans. The first pics are of a Trackmaster one. For its age (over 70 years) it's not too bad really, the buffers are near enough scale height, not like the later Tri-ang offering, with reasonable solebar detail. The addition of a handbrake handle would help. If I could manage to get it apart (in such a way that I could get it back together again!) to change the wheels, I think it would make a useable addition to a layout.

 

 

The end view shows the height relative to a later Tri-ang version (centre) and a cut down one

 

Middle and right vans fitted with Dapol Reactangular Tar Tank chassis which may be a bit 'heavy duty' for such a van but is a quick fix. The cut down one was one picked up at a swapmeet for a pound or two to recover the roof. When prising that off, the top plank got damaged but the rest was fine so I took a saw to it and re-profiled the ends to see how it worked out and make a PO van for my industrial shunting plank.

 

[Ruston]

On 08/03/2021 at 09:03, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

 

Looks like I owe you a huge apology for not responding at the time Ruston, I must have given up on this thread or got distracted with the knee injury I was suffering (still am for that matter). The L&Y vans I was referring to are the ancient ones introduced under the Trackmaster name by Pyramid Toys and later retooled by Tri-ang and done in 'Big Four' liveries. You probably know the ones I mean but I will try to get some piccies to show you all, I hope it won't take another 18 months to post them!

No worries. I have converted three of the old Triang vans into L&Y types. I think I cut them down in height by a plank or two and made new headstocks. One was put on a Ratio LNW underframe and one had an all-new frame with etched guard irons and proper L&Y axleboxes and brake levers.

 

Edit:

 

This is one on the Ratio underframe.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Ruston

[Ruston]

Another one.

[Invicta]

On 08/03/2021 at 10:21, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

Thanks Stephen, them's them. I would ask if the roof door was compulsary but it looks like not much more than two or three bits of microstrip and some tarpaulin coloured paint.

IIRC, depending on the period you're modelling, you might be able to get away without the roof door- I think they were often removed in later LMS ownership?

 

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Invicta said:

IIRC, depending on the period you're modelling, you might be able to get away without the roof door- I think they were often removed in later LMS ownership?

 

Possibly from the later big L&Y vans but I doubt any modification to the Diagram 3 vans, which were elderly and of low capacity, would have been seen as worthwhile. 

[Invicta]

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Possibly from the later big L&Y vans but I doubt any modification to the Diagram 3 vans, which were elderly and of low capacity, would have been seen as worthwhile. 

 

I've got the David Geen Diagram 3 kit in my box of unbuilt kits, and thought I recalled mention in the instructions of the roof doors being removed in later life- I could well be thinking of the larger vans though, as I've also got one of the old MAJ kits for the bigger (Diagram 62 or something like that?) vans in the same box

Edited March 10, 2021 by Invicta

[Poor Old Bruce]

Will have to check if the preserved similar (ex Cadbury's) one at Chasewater has a roof hatch.

[Compound2632]

26 minutes ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

Will have to check if the preserved similar (ex Cadbury's) one at Chasewater has a roof hatch.

In Cadbury's internal use, hatches:

 

 

[This photo was posted elsewhere on RMWeb; I'm afraid I don't know its ultimate origin.]

 

It would appear that the van as delivered to Chasewater in 1967 still had the hatch, although the photo shows the non-hatch side.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Compound2632

[Poor Old Bruce]

37 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

In Cadbury's internal use, hatches:

 

 

[This photo was posted elsewhere on RMWeb; I'm afraid I don't know its ultimate origin.]

 

It would appear that the van as delivered to Chasewater in 1967 still had the hatch, although the photo shows the non-hatch side.

 

Rats!!! Will have to invoke Rule 1, for now at least.

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

Rats!!! Will have to invoke Rule 1, for now at least.

 

I'm sure that some other industrial user of these vans might well have re-roofed them. But really, the roof hatch isn't that difficult to model.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Compound2632

[john new]

On 11/03/2021 at 08:29, Compound2632 said:

In Cadbury's internal use, hatches:

 

 

[This photo was posted elsewhere on RMWeb; I'm afraid I don't know its ultimate origin.]

 

It would appear that the van as delivered to Chasewater in 1967 still had the hatch, although the photo shows the non-hatch side.

A sign of the stressed times we live in - at first glance I read the tarp slogan on the barge as ... CARRYING COVID.

[Invicta]

On 08/03/2021 at 10:50, Compound2632 said:

 

That's what I did when I built the Geen whitemetal kit, though I ruckled up a piece of paper for the tarpaulin. I believe that the tarpaulin covered or had sewn into it a series of battens, to support it over the opening.

 

 

 

On 11/03/2021 at 11:40, Compound2632 said:

 

I'm sure that some other industrial user of these vans might well have re-roofed them. But really, the roof hatch isn't that difficult to model.

 

Just had a delve through my unbuilt kits and if it's helpful for anyone wanting to detail the old Triang van and add the roof doors, the instructions for the David Geen Dia. 3 kit gives the following dimensions for them:

 

"Roof sweeps at 8' apart, end 6" past centre of roof. Roof door canvas 6' wide, slats under are 5'2" long, fastened by bar through canvas loops and pinned to sides. Bar 2"x1/2" x 5'8" sewn into canvas is trapped down by locking bar"

 

Both the David Geen kit and the old MAJ Diagram 62 instructions suggest using microstrip for the battens and either tissue paper, fine cotton fabric or thin plasticard for the actual door canvas, similar to the method Stephen outlined a few posts back.

[Asterix2012]

I just received a copy of LYR wagons volume 2 and having a quick look through I wonder if this

http://britbahn.wdfiles.com/local--files/gueterwagen-der-lancashire-and-yorkshire-railway/LYR_30_tons_Bogie_Covered_Goods_2.jpg

could be made from three of the old triang insulfish bodies?

 

And if so what underframe/ bogies might be suitable?

 

sorry I cannot figure out how to include the image here

[MR Chuffer]

5 minutes ago, Asterix2012 said:

old triang insulfish bodies

A rare beast indeed, only 25 built and suffered from poor access through the single door on each side. Might be easier/cheaper to create from scratch rather than carve up multiple insulfish vans.

[Il Grifone]

Coming rather late to this, Trackmaster wagons are easy to rewheel. The body prises off - it's held by 4 pegs (as are the later Tri-ang versions) and then can be split into two halves (held together by steel rod inserts), which also releases the primitive couplings for replacement by something else.

The underframe would be quite reasonable for pre-1923 RCH wagons (it has crown plates and is of rather chunky build), if it were not a scale 16 feet over headstocks and 9 foot 6 inch wheelbase.

[DanInHisDen]

Where can I get replacement rooves for them?