RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 16, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2013 WR buffs wakey, wakey and anyone that might have lived in, or are modelling/going to model a joint WR/whatever area. If you hadn't noticed, that nice chap at Comet models has introduced a Collett Driving Trailer (conversions circa 1955 from D117 Brake 3rds). Instead of just posting a pic of a soldered and mostly finished effort for someone else, as this is for me I thought you might like to see a bit more of the build for this as it is such a good looking little coach? If you don't then fair enough, go and have a look at Peterborough North or something lovely. I haven't started it this morning as I fell on my ar**e on the skating rink of a pavement on the way home from work and have dinged my back and arms (no guffawing now chaps as it was a 9.99 points performance ). Anyhow, this is what you get in the box (as well as some tissue paper that is included to help with the dribble that will occur when you see the delightful etches ). Looks tempting? Keep looking and I promise to take this to 'finished' condition (probably unpainted until the better weather). I'll try and tempt that other nice bloke, PMP of this parish, at Albion Yard, to pose it on his layout. Cheers, P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Clearly you are a man of taste! I look forward to seeing how you get on with this kit. Although these coaches were converted for use in South Wales, some did roam. 252 was working on the Fowey branch in August 1959 and there is a nice pic of it in "Steam in Cornwall" by Peter Gray. To my untutored eye it looks as if Comet have not quite captured the bodyside profile in this instance. These coaches were built in Collett's high-waisted period and the turnunder starts from just below the window line. This should present little difficulty to a skilled craftsman like you but puts the fear of God into a cack-handed article like me!. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Clearly you are a man of taste! To my untutored eye it looks as if Comet have not quite captured the bodyside profile in this instance. These coaches were built in Collett's high-waisted period and the turnunder starts from just below the window line. This should present little difficulty to a skilled craftsman like you but puts the fear of God into a cack-handed article like me!. Chris It's a standard turn under but for many people it is better than a flat etch. I described the method I use on one of my threads using a basic brass handled Swann-Morton knife and a steel ruler, and it is easy to form a more accurate GWR turnunder as described by Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 16, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2013 Cheers Chris. There is a good pic in Harris P124 (GW Coaches from 1840) and that confirms your knowledge as correct; it is a very subtle 'turn'. As Coach says, it's a 'standard' turn-under and I don't think I can be ar**d to alter it as it suits the end profile, but I do commend Coache's 'knife and ruler' method that I have archived somewhere. So, 54 hinges, 36 door 'bumpers' and 16 drops to do. This is how I prep for the hinges (and I know Coach only used to do the lower hinge as he was working to a deadline). Frogmore (MJT) hinges by the way and standard Comet brass wire for the bumpers. Usual method I assume; marker pen, dividers (little scratch) and then scribe push followed by 0.5mm drill. Blimey, those bumper holes look a bit big in the pic P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Pulham Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 followed by 5mm drill. Hi Phil, I hope that you are missing a decimal point here or the coach will be a bit draughty! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Marker pen...............I hope you thoroughly remove it afterwards, as it will bleed through cellulose and acrylic car paints. The lowest hinge is the only one to show prominently, but another reason for me not fitting them is they get in the way if a coach is required in full panelled livery. They do look good though when all are fitted. I etched them on one coach by starting with 22 thou nickel-silver and etching the sides down to half-thickness leaving all the door handles, hinges and destination board brackets full thickness. Very effective for Stanier stock but rather more expensive than the 'standard' method. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted January 16, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2013 Nice to see a coach build on here although out of my time period I still enjoy threads like this.Give me a nod if you want a photo of 252 Phil.Enjoy those hinges,a pain but well worth it. I hope the pavements ok in your street. Always wondered what the tissue was for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 16, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2013 Thanks Rob and Rob P. I've done that 5mm mistake before (doh) and Geoff TTP that time. Thanks Mr P! Thanks for the painting tip Coach. Don't think I'll ever need to do panelled livery as I only ever want to paint mine (one day I will, honest) and that's BR period. Yes I remove the marker with g.fibre brush, but thanks for the tip mate. I actually clean down all my stuff with Sif and water but the new owners will do their own clean I assume before they do anything in the painting field. I have soaked my own stuff in mild vinegar solution as well as that kills any solder residue I'm told. Like the etch method for leaving the detail; sounds very effective. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted January 16, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2013 Clearly you are a man of taste! I look forward to seeing how you get on with this kit. Although these coaches were converted for use in South Wales, some did roam. 252 was working on the Fowey branch in August 1959 and there is a nice pic of it in "Steam in Cornwall" by Peter Gray. Chris Can you tell me what page No 252 is on as I can't find it Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Can you tell me what page No 252 is on as I can't find it Chris. Page 33, Rob. 5572 is propelling her train into Lostwithiel in August 1959 over an embankment quite reminiscent of carpet underlay in both texture and hue. It's quite an interesting pic as it demonstrates the difference in body profile and window height between the two tranches of 1930s suburban stock for those who worry about such things. 252 is in unlined maroon and the other coach, 455, still in crimson three years after the livery change was introduced. 5572 had migrated to St Blazey for a couple of months, presumably to cover while 1419 was in works or otherwise indisposed. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 17, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2013 Apparently, Llantrisant had an A44 trailer (no 255) for working the Penygraig service. I have some photos here, which show an A44 in service (1957), but the quality doesn't show the number. Regards, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 17, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2013 Quality Ian is not an issue when it comes to my stuff so post away if you have the time and there is no copyright. I'm wondering if they had one of these on the Looe Branch in 1962, as I have a hazy memory of a 14XX rattling past us at Sandplace Halt where we stood looking stupid, having been told by the locals that it would stop if we put our hand out (like you used to/still do for a bus). More pics of the build later today; I've only achieved one sides worth of hinges/bumpers at the moment. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I'm wondering if they had one of these on the Looe Branch in 1962, as I have a hazy memory of a 14XX rattling past us at Sandplace Halt where we stood looking stupid, having been told by the locals that it would stop if we put our hand out (like you used to/still do for a bus). I don't think so. DMUs had taken over the Looe branch by winter 1961. Before that the staple rolling stock was B sets and 45xx prairies. One might have thought that with the reversal at Coombe Junction this would be the obvious place to use auto trains but on the GWR not all is obvious! There must have been some serious p-way work o the branch before dieselisation as for many years only coaches with 7 ft wb bogies were allowed on it. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted January 17, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2013 I shall be following this closely, as I have an A44 on order which I intend to start as soon as it arrives. I am currently half-way through building an A42, and construction has been very enjoyable so far. My A42 kit is missing a few parts, such as hinges and alarm gear, and I assume the A44 does too, so I have ordered Comet's "super-detailing" etch which includes these items. I might have a bit of trouble installing the hinges on my A42 since I have made up the body already. The photo of the A44 that appears on Comet's site looks odd with holes in the sides where the door bumpers ought to be. According to John Lewis, Great Western Autotrailers, Vol. 2 (Wild Swan, 1995), No. 252 was allocated to Laira in late 1957 or 1958. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 17, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2013 Thanks Chris; memory is obviously nearly gone.....I'm sure it was Sandplace as I had been potato picking in Duloe, so it was probably early summerish and Le Tour had just finished or was taking place? Can't believe it was as early as 1961 - frightening thought. Budgie, none of the the kits include hinges and alarm gear as many people do their own thing with this (and other) detailing. The 'Super Detailing' etch has useful stuff on it, however I tend to use Frogmore hinges from MJT. Genuine GWR/WR bods know far more about these detailing things and get them from all over the place. I don't know much about these suppliers I'm afraid. As you can see, Chris F, GWR Rob and Co. are great for supplying proto info and helpful tips. Anyhow, good luck; the DT is, as usual, a foolproof build as Comet kits are designed to be so so that I can do them I would describe them (Comet coaches) as 'layout coaches' (stealing the term layout from Mr. T. Wright's sensible description of his kit built loco's; thanks Tony). Easy to build because almost everything fits together well, robust and smooth running. OK they are heavy if you decide to have grades and sharpish curves on your layout, but hey ho. Completed the sides this morning i.e. hinges, bumpers and drops. (Commodes, grabs and door handles go on later). I have today decided that the rectangular bumpers on some coaches are going to be hinge etches in future. I believe the ones on this coach are round as far as I can tell (bit like household door stops) and are therefore 0.45mm brass wire; (got the dimensions right this time Rob P) Ignore the 'orrible solder seep please and I'm sorry my camera seems to have decided not to focus correctly today (it's getting old, like me). I can see the snow clouds building over 36E (GN & GC) and so I'll probably make further progress today (ends?) and tomorrow if I can use the snow as an excuse not to go to work Quack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted January 17, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2013 Mallard60022: My kit hasn't arrived yet, so I'm having to ask you this one: What is the distance from the end of the coach to the driver's door? There is a diagram in Lewis, scaled at 2mm:1ft, and this distance looks like it should be 1ft 6in (with the door being 2ft); however it looks a lot less than that in your pictures and the photo on the Comet site, but that might just be my eyesight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 17, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2013 Budgie - a scale 6"! Should be 1' 6" you say; I've just looked at my pic in Harris and you are absolutely correct. Anyway, the snow is arriving and so, as I am going outside and I maybe some time, I'm just posting the next stage. Driver's end: Passenger end/compartments: You will notice that I use a cunning 'brace' soldered between the coach sides (usually temporarily but sometimes it stays -excuse pun). This helps prevent deformation (of the carcass, not me) whilst I am throwing it around the sink/work-room/cell/ consultation office, Head's Study/ Matron's private treatment room etc. I've just noticed that I have not filed down the hinges; hours of fun this evening then P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Looks really good Phil. I've just started a rake of 9 Collets for the Usk branch train. All thirds and brake ends, the thirds are a pain in the proverbial all the hinges...starting the fourth one this evening. I was watching the DVD 'Steam routes North to Shrewsbury' there were quite a few services that ran with these rather odd looking coaches, wish I could find an excuse for running one on Little Mill. So far I have not been able to find a photo of one in that area. Crack on with the filing! Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 17, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2013 Cheers matey. 9 Collets - good grief, I'd be long gone before I completed a batch like that. You see mate, I never finish coaches, not even my own. Ebay will be in profit when I go to the Great BR Works in the sky (that's if SWMBO can find where I've hidden them all over the years ) Decided to do the under-frame this evening but can't be ar**d to do the sole-bar step board prepping (little bits of 0.45 wire as recommended by Comet and what I almost always use). The sbds are full length and don't do that 'orrible GWR 'overlap the ends' trick thank goodness, so tomorrow's work will be happy, happy, happy . I'm not sure why this coach requires the 9' Pressed Steel GWR Bogie? Seems odd on a short coach for branch-line work? I think I've read somewhere that some were fitted with 7' bogies but you all know how vague my mem ........... what was I saying?? Snow has gone away that's why I'm back in writing this, just in case you wondered. Will post the relevant undergarments pics tomorrow. Will I get to do the roof as well - who knows, who cares? P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted January 17, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2013 The A33 trailers had 7-ft bogies; they were numbered 4350 and 4364. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 18, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2013 No roof I'm afraid as I was delayed at work this morning and had to go back early this afternoon (oh joy - not). However, I have done the under-frame. I solder up my white-metal bits as I like the challenge The battery box on the right has since had to be moved right up against the vac cylinder so the 9' bogies have clearance. I suspect I might have to redo the truss rods too but that can wait. One thing I discovered when I 'married up' the u.f. to the body was that I had not allowed enough room for the floor to tuck up under the ends. Comet suggest using a bit of frame fret 'spacer'(is it 18thou/) when constructing the end/frame to the end to floor connecting piece (that gets soldered to the inside of the end). This 'spacer' is not thick enough and I would suggest twice this thickness of 'spacer'. I'll take a pic tomorrow that shows my repositioning to create a better seating of floor to body. I also filed off about 0.5mm of the ends to clear the buffer stock holes. Despite my errors I am enjoying this build and have been told I must now get a Baccy 45XX to go with this. I might just also get a Comet W18, which is an Intermediate Trailer to Diagram A42 (convert from C75, to go with it too). Goodnight for now. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 19, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2013 Good morning. If you have built a Comet coach before you will be familiar with the 'standard' and neat method of attaching the body to the under-frame. If not - sorry, however the first pic will give you some idea of how it goes (I hope). You may see that the 'gap' left between base of plate (with hole in) and bottom of the end is probably deeper than usual. It is also not the whole, nice neat Comet etched piece as I had to remove the original, carefully prepared and lovingly folded etch and cobble my own bits of junk to achieve what I needed as I had broken the original - doh I'm not proud of the rough soldering either nil points. The next pic shows that the body now sits on the under-frame in what IMO is a better position. I know the battery box is not quite in the right position (mentioned that in a previous post) I'm going to have to work out a 'fettle' to get the buffers to look right; maybe some plasticard over-lays to bring that beam forward? AR*E I've just noticed that the dynamo is back to front - who did that? You boy, fire up the soldering stick.... now! Wait, no it's not. It is actually showing from the other side and looks like it is fitted this side due to some sort of lens distortion. Hey, you boy, turn off that b***dy iron stick thing right now. That Driver's end plate looks like the body of some war plane just returned from a mission over enemy territory and having met some opposition....... Coat buttoned.................................... P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 19, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2013 Standard Comet bogie etches and OO wheels; no springing. Cast sides waiting for glue to go off. Will do the joining up and then take another pic. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted January 19, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2013 Standard Comet bogie etches and OO wheels; no springing. Cast sides waiting for glue to go off. Bogie etches and OO wheels.jpg Will do the joining up and then take another pic. P When I first started building Comet coaches I used to put that fiddly braking on the bogies.Now I don't bother as its not worth the effort.I do put the steps,if applicable, on the castings though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 19, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2013 I'm not for doing those either Rob. I know some folk do but can they really be seen if the coach is used on a layout? Here are the sides attached. Don't look too bad. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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