Improving the Hornby APT (1980s version)

[Horsetan]

Complete trains (less pantograph) still selling for under fifty quid?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-APT-set-5-cars-/173044974709?hash=item284a48c475%3Ag%3A9K0AAOSwXCBaPBZh&nma=true&si=XkVuIYa4V0td9iYIXTnj6nUIMEQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Not fifty quid by the time they're finished. More like £150.

 

Some sellers are now starting to ask for £200 and upwards. Good luck with that.

[Titan]

By the time it comes to the end of bidding they sell at £120-£155 .

 

I’ve always fancied an APT . The new crowdfunded one is just too expensive for something that will see only occasional use. So I bid on an APT and won it. As I like collecting things Hornby it fits in well. As mine has the black cab windows it’s about 35 to 36 years old . It’s taken me that long to get one!

 

 

Not fifty quid by the time they're finished. More like £150.

 

Some sellers are now starting to ask for £200 and upwards. Good luck with that.

 

That was the actual selling price, so you are right it was not fifty quid, it was actually sold for £49.99

 

Here is a list of around 20, yes 20 recently sold APTs, all under £100, - again, prices shown are the final, actual prices that they sold for, and I am not counting some of the incomplete sets that have crept in to the results. Six of the complete sets sold for £75 or less.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=48&_udhi=100&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&_nkw=Hornby+apt&_sop=2

Edited January 2, 2018 by Titan

[royaloak]

Jamie I think your last two posts really belong in the DJM thread where DJM and Durham Trains could see them and perhaps take note of the valid points you have made.

 

Colin

Indeed but why has he put motor driving when they were non driving motors?

Edited January 2, 2018 by royaloak

[Titan]

Indeed but why has he put motor driving when they were non driving motors?

 

Slight mix up in terminology - in real life they are all non driving motors, however the ones he refers to as motor driving are the powered non driving motors (i.e. the ones with a drive train in them), as opposed to the dummy non driving motors.

[JDW]

Haha yes, makes it clear as mud doesn't it!  It isn't the best choice of terms, that's for sure.  In model terms, driving= it drives the set, it has the drive in it.  In real terms, driving= where the driver sits.  

[royaloak]

Haha yes, makes it clear as mud doesn't it!  It isn't the best choice of terms, that's for sure.  In model terms, driving= it drives the set, it has the drive in it.  In real terms, driving= where the driver sits.  

I would probably used something like-

Non Driving Motor (powered) and

Non Driving Motor (unpowered)

 

Which would have been easier to read, especially as he has used the correct codes for all the other coaches.

 

He has still done a cracking job on the list though.

Edited January 2, 2018 by royaloak

[7APT7]

Hi All

 

Thanks for the information, I only every follow this thread on the APT, so I will have a look at the DJM APT thread, I never knew it existed, but I do now. Sorry guys, no harm done hey.

 

And yes it confused me to as they had both Motor Non Driving (powered) and Motor Non Driving (non powered), I was surprised to see that the 10-Car only had one power car and only the 14-Car had two Powered Motored Cars. I would have thought, both the 10-Car and 14-Car would have had two Powered on each APT.

Will not One Powered Car struggle to pull the other 9-Cars on the 10-Car set.

 

EBay seems to have its good times and bad times with regards to the Pricing of the Hornby APT-P. I guess that depends on if your selling or buying, I know all the ones I have bought over several years I have landed on some great bargains, but later in the year Nov/Dec time seems to be the month they make silly money. 

Kind of like the real thing, I can't come to terms with chopping them lol, I'm sure the right money will convince me otherwise.

 

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, always a great thread to read.

Hope all had a great New Year to  

 

Regards

Jamie

[RedgateModels]

Old topic, new stuff. Been busy chopping up 80’s apt’s 

 

dev coach

 

 

TF

 

 

and finally, DAV4

 

 

Not done any paint yet, will wait for better weather so I can get my airbrush outside 

Edited March 31, 2022 by RedgateModels

[jivebunny]

Old topic indeed!

 

The release of the new APT has given me the urge to dig my old one out and improve it. After trying to run it in for the first time in years, I've come to the conclusion that the first job is definitely going to be remotor the weak, screechy, slippery NDM... After that I'll probably look at cosmetic improvements (new wheels, reducing the bodyside and inter-trailer gaps, replacement pantograph and NDM detailing...), then grab my airbrush and give it a full respray into proper BR colours. I'm tempted to do some cut-and-shut jobs further down the line, but will probably limit myself to a test formation if I do. It will be staying as a DC model until I can either justifiy three decoders for it, or find the courage to run wires down the whole train.

 

First things first, I went ahead and had a pair of Eurostar powered bogies shipped over from the UK, having read that they were a straightforward drop-in replacement. Turns out they aren't 

 

I've searched far and wide but I can't seem to find any information about exactly how these need to be modified in order to drop them in to the APT frames. Hacking the coupling peg and side frames off the Eurostar bogies seems like an obvious starting point, but it looks the wheels will be left sitting very high in the APT bogie without further modifications. So high in fact that it looks like it might leave the base of the APT frame touching the rails.

 

So my numerous questions to any APT modding guru would be:

 

- Do you have any pointers as to how you did this?

- What should remain of the Eurostar bogies after modification?

- Do the APT bogie frames themselves need any modification?

- Can I save a millimeter of height by removing the plastic base plate from the Eurostar bogie (second pic) or will I live to regret it? 

 

I'll try and document this modification as I go along, to hopefully help others who might have similar questions in future.

 

Looking forward to your replies!

 

Alan

 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by jivebunny

[Colin_McLeod]

On 27/01/2022 at 17:04, RedgateModels said:

Old topic, new stuff. Been busy chopping up 80’s apt’s 

 

Many thanks for reviving this thread (and other threads refered to therein)

 

I spent money on the DJM APT project and thankfully recovered it from my bank.  I then purchased a number of 80s Hornby APT items on e bay with a plan to cut and shut to give a reasonable impression of a 10 car APT-P with articulated wheelsets.

 

 

The project was put on hold when Hornby announced a retooled APT in 2020. However given the cost of the new Hornby version plus the now diminished sale value of my 80s APT I decided to proceed with my cut and shut plan.  I have ordered a 2020  power car to provide a modern mechanism but everything else will be original.

 

A quick read through this thread has uncovered some very useful tips which I will be studying closely.

[rob D2]

7 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

Many thanks for reviving this thread (and other threads refered to therein)

 

I spent money on the DJM APT project and thankfully recovered it from my bank.  I then purchased a number of 80s Hornby APT items on e bay with a plan to cut and shut to give a reasonable impression of a 10 car APT-P with articulated wheelsets.

 

 

The project was put on hold when Hornby announced a retooled APT in 2020. However given the cost of the new Hornby version plus the now diminished sale value of my 80s APT I decided to proceed with my cut and shut plan.  I have ordered a 2020  power car to provide a modern mechanism but everything else will be original.

 

A quick read through this thread has uncovered some very useful tips which I will be studying closely.

You might be disappointed with the “ modern mechanism “ when it melts !

[RedgateModels]

1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said:

I decided to proceed with my cut and shut plan.  

 

Let me know if you have any questions, I'll try to help

[Colin_McLeod]

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

You might be disappointed with the “ modern mechanism “ when it melts !

 

Hopefully it won't.  Has that been happening? If it has I'll have to reconsider using it.

 

 

 

34 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

 

Let me know if you have any questions, I'll try to help

 

Thank you @RedgateModels for that kind offer.  

[jivebunny]

3 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

..plus the now diminished sale value of my 80s APT...

 

You'd be surprised... Boxed five-car set sold on eBay today for upwards of £220. I bought mine seven or eight years ago for £65 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-APT-Advanced-Passenger-Train-Pack-OO-Gauge-DCC-Fitted-Mint-Condition-/313870558354?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m2548.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

[Colin_McLeod]

None of my 80s APT stock is boxed.

[RedgateModels]

28 minutes ago, jivebunny said:

 

You'd be surprised... Boxed five-car set sold on eBay today for upwards of £220. I bought mine seven or eight years ago for £65 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-APT-Advanced-Passenger-Train-Pack-OO-Gauge-DCC-Fitted-Mint-Condition-/313870558354?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m2548.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

that set was DCC fitted, very good box etc, although mis described as mint but with sections of ndm roof cabling missing ….

[LongRail]

There have been problems with the suppression resistor on the new motor I cut mine off there is a picture of one model which is claimed melted a hole through the body

[jivebunny]

If a mod (or the OP) wanders through here, it might be worth changing the subject of this 2013 thread to indicate that it's about the 1980s model and not the new tooling

 

Alan

 

 

[TRAILRAGE]

 

Fell in Love with these beauties at an early age after getting up close and personal with the 9-car set at the 1981 Old Oak Common Depot open day . Luckily with the help of Commoner and Stovepipe I have the complete numbers for that set. 

 

Me and My older Brother. I'm looking Pleased as Punch being stood next to this and he's just trying to look Cool!  

 

DTS-48107, TS-48201, TRSB-48406, TU-48303, TF-48503, TBF-48607, NDM-49002, TBF-48601, DTS-48101.

 

Thanks to Commoner and Stovepipe on here for confirming the Numbers, and The Stationmaster not only for starting that thread but for helping organise something that shaped my world. The Stationmaster mentions that it that it had been used for various trials and came straight from doing this. amazing effort to get it there from all. Never got to see one working but did manage to see some stored at the back Derby works from I seem to remember a Footbridge and at Crewe electric. from the old embankment at the Works. Think that was the 87 open day. 

 

40 years later!  Revived my old 6-car Hornby APT for a run recently as my Littleman hadn't seen it running  before. had to completely strip and rebuild the Motor Bogie as it sounded like a screaming Banshee and went slower than a sleeping snail! Magic runs as I good as I have ever seen it run. He cant get enough of it now and keeps saying he would love an APT. I guess I now know how my Dad must have felt! As I said it runs well enough and at some point the original wheels have been replaced with Bachmann Split Axle12mm Disc Brake wheels but it needs some rectification work.  A couple of  Body clips have broken but I'm not sure what the best way to do this. Running wise I'm amazed it still works as I bought it  at the Bournemouth Depot open day back in 1996 for £56 as a battered up Model with a Broken Bogie Pivot which had been badly glued. I still have the original Pantograph but I fitted it with a Sommerfeldt 968 and although not 100% correct looks way better for it.  Just need another one now! Waited 16 years to get one of these so couldn't pass it up. Purchased in separate parts a second NDM for about £25 in total and I wired it up to the Power car to provide extra pick ups but these for some reason have been removed.   

Contemplating fitting the extensions under the Body to get the correct depth and fitting some 10.5mm Wheels if I can get some at a decent enough Price. Then giving it  a coat of the correct shade of Intercity Beige.  

 

 

Both TBF's need fixing as they have both suffered with broken body clips.

 

Both NDM.s need the HT cable redoing

 

and definitely need another Pantograph for this one!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers Trailrage

Edited February 22, 2022 by TRAILRAGE
Adding pics