plasticbasher Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) The problem I see with fitting smaller wheels than Hornby did, is you would need to do likewise with the power car: - Not easy if you are retaining the Ringfield mechanism, given the wheels have gears on the back which are probably bigger than the actual wheels should be. - Also the coupling between the power car and the next vehicles has lateral movement, but any vertical movement is limited to "slop". I doubt they'd work too well if constantly at an angle. Bigger wheels may be unprototypical, but they look nicer..! Although I must concede that the photo's of the real thing show it is very low to the track and the model seems to sit a bit higher, even though it's roofline is lower than other stock. I think I'll probably leave mine at 13mm (but finer than the coarse original ones) and let more dedicated people try smaller wheels (plus the extra cost would be too much for me). plasticbasher Edited March 14, 2013 by plasticbasher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Gibson do 9mm disc wheels (we use them in our ruston 48DS kit) but they are a little difficult to find as they were originally produced only for 3mm with1/16th axles. They are now available in 00/EM and P4 with normal 2mm axles..... Found them. Ref no.s 3007 (8mm) and 3009 (9mm). Interesting.....! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
winky84 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I have used a full compliment of Bachmann 12mm disc wheels on my set. They may not be prototypically accurate, but they do look aesthetically 'right' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
winky84 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 after flicking through my copy of Modern Locomotives Illustrated 176, It gives technical info about both APT-P and APT-E. Unfortunately, it does not provide wheel sizes for APT-P, however, it specifies that all the wheels on APT-E were a diameter of 915mm which would be just a smidge over 12mm. I do not know whether the same size wheels were used on APT-P though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
winky84 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I have used a full compliment of Bachmann 12mm disc wheels on my set. They may not be prototypically accurate, but they do look aesthetically 'right' I revise my previous statement. Just taken some axles off a lowmac and fitted them to a driving car. Looks mush more like the photos now. Re the drive axle issue, as I plan to go for a twin Black Beetle set up and drive wheels are available in 9.6mm or 10.5mm, this should not present an issue. I revise my previous statement. Just taken some axles off a lowmac and fitted them to a driving car. Looks mush more like the photos now. Re the drive axle issue, as I plan to go for a twin Black Beetle set up and drive wheels are available in 9.6mm or 10.5mm, this should not present an issue. *much more... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 .....mush more...... You've just reminded me, on the 33rd day of Lent, how I used to be after I'd had a few drinks.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted March 17, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17, 2013 While the unpowered axles of the trailing cars may be very small I'd be incredibly surprised if the power car wheels were that small simply because of the gearing effects. Andi 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) The diagram in the EMU book states a wheelbase of 3350 mm for the power car. By approximately measuring the wheel radius and comparing it to the wheelbase from the general arrangement we have an approximate wheel diameter of 860 mm = 11.35 mm (about 2mm larger diameter than the trailer wheels, 150mm or 6 inches 1:1). I've looked through Modern Railways and the B.R. APT promotional booklet and there are no wheel diameters quoted. Below is the general arrangement for the power car from the promotional booklet. Edited March 17, 2013 by Flood 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I don't think it would be a gearing issue - after all there is a gear reduction between motor and axle so you can have any size wheel you want and choose the drive ratio to suit. Indeed as motors turn much faster than axles the smaller the wheel the less gearing you need as the axle speed gets closer to motor speed. It is more likely to be a weight issue - it is preferred to have larger diameter wheels for heavier loads, and the power car would have a much heavier axle load compared to the trailers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
winky84 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) I have now fitted a full compliment of 10.5mm disc Romford wheels on all bar the driving car which will have 10.5mm discs on Black Beetles at a later date (when funds allow...). Very happy now. Looks right. On a side note, and you may need to sit down for this, but I managed to find the wheels I was after in my local model shop AND they were cheaper than buying them off the internet... Edited March 20, 2013 by winky84 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
winky84 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Two more Hornby APT vehicles arrived in the post for me yesterday. Break out the dremel... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Two more Hornby APT vehicles arrived in the post for me yesterday. Break out the dremel... Hi Andi Hope you have settled down in your new place mate... Any Progress on the APT Cut up and Pictures of the sad word... Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I just checked my photos again and the photo on the previous page with the tape measure is from a trailer and not the power car so the assertion that this might have larger wheels could be true. There's only one way to find out and it's sitting in a very accessible location near to Crewe station! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted June 21, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) Hi Andi Hope you have settled down in your new place mate... Any Progress on the APT Cut up and Pictures of the sad word... Jamie At the moment we are still moving, some stuff has made not made it yet, one of which is a sensible internet connection. I'm piggybacking onto a neighbour's BT fon connection at the moment and the signal is sketchy at best. We get our proper connection on Friday next week all being well. There are a million boxes to be unpacked... BUT... and it's a big but. BUT... I now have the room to build (and store) the revised corners for Dagworth Andi Edited June 21, 2013 by Dagworth 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) Just found an interesting image that shows just how low the APT sits on the track. Look at the roof line compared to the 86 in the shot below from Haydon Walker on Flickr. It's significantly lower than the height of the cab of the 86. Also, a small plug for DEMU Showcase this weekend. One of our layouts (Coppell) features a full length APT-P. Edited July 3, 2013 by lyneux 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Hi mate Thanks for sharing the Photo, never noticed the sitting position of the driver before... Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted July 9, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 9, 2013 The diagram in the EMU book states a wheelbase of 3350 mm for the power car. By approximately measuring the wheel radius and comparing it to the wheelbase from the general arrangement we have an approximate wheel diameter of 860 mm = 11.35 mm (about 2mm larger diameter than the trailer wheels, 150mm or 6 inches 1:1). I've looked through Modern Railways and the B.R. APT promotional booklet and there are no wheel diameters quoted. i've looked through a few sources i have and the only specific mention of wheel diameter is in a schematic of the BT11 articulated bogie, wheels 780mm dia. presumably all unpowered wheels would be the same, but unable to find out definitively if the powered wheels were the same Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
winky84 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 10.5mm Romfords FTW then... (Unless anybody makes 10.26mm wheels?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 i've looked through a few sources i have and the only specific mention of wheel diameter is in a schematic of the BT11 articulated bogie, wheels 780mm dia. presumably all unpowered wheels would be the same, but unable to find out definitively if the powered wheels were the same Hi Mate So have Hornby made ALL the APT wheels in specification to the Powered wheels or the non-powered wheels... and if so, if I was to replace all the current Hornby APT wheel sets according to the above, would the APT not look right if I was just to put bigger wheels to the nearest mm on the Power cars only thus making it appear more to the real thing... look forward to your feedback and thanks for the information. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted July 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2013 Hi Mate So have Hornby made ALL the APT wheels in specification to the Powered wheels or the non-powered wheels... and if so, if I was to replace all the current Hornby APT wheel sets according to the above, would the APT not look right if I was just to put bigger wheels to the nearest mm on the Power cars only thus making it appear more to the real thing... look forward to your feedback and thanks for the information. Jamie Neither, Hornby used their standard 12mm wheel which is too big to be correct for either powered or non powered vehicles.... Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Hi Andi Thanks for the fast info mate, hope life is good foe you... so which size wheels are the closest for both powered and the non-powered,,, Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 This is getting crazy now! The best information you can have is to measure the prototype. On page 2 of this thread I have a photo of the prototype (non powered vehicle) with Mike holding a tape measure to the wheels clearly showing from the rail head to axlebox centre a distance of 14 inches which makes the diameter 28 inches. This is a scale 9.3mm. Granted the power car wheels may have a different diameter and I didn't measure these. You can believe whatever you want to believe from other sources (which may or may not be right) but until someone posts a photo of the prototype with the tape measure next to it then we really don't have any better evidence (I will do this next time I get to Crewe!). Obviously 9.3mm wheels are hard to source, so for most peoples purposes 10.5mm wheels will probably look better than the 12mm Hornby ones. Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 There's been this thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/73590-prototype-wagon-with-23-dia-disc-wheels/ recently where someone has bought some 9mm dia. wheels and is looking for a use for them. Perhaps APT could be that use! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf27 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I have fitted Rmford 10.5mm wheels to some of my APT vehicles and its makes a huge difference. I will see if I can get some pics up at the weekend. cheers Shane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7APT7 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I have fitted Rmford 10.5mm wheels to some of my APT vehicles and its makes a huge difference. I will see if I can get some pics up at the weekend. cheers Shane Hi Shane Interesting...! Look forward to seeing the Pictures, Are you leaving Bigger Wheels (12mm) on the power cars then...? Thanks for you comment... Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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