Older Inspirational Layouts

[t-b-g]

I will refrain from getting involved in yet another DC vs DCC discussion on a thread which is supposed to be about older layouts. It has been discussed many, many times on here already.

 

All I will say is that the system on Buckingham does its job superbly and I am adopting it for my new layout, plus there is absolutely no chance of Buckingham being converted to DCC, at least not while I have it!

[St Enodoc]

16 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

I will refrain from getting involved in yet another DC vs DCC discussion on a thread which is supposed to be about older layouts. It has been discussed many, many times on here already.

 

All I will say is that the system on Buckingham does its job superbly and I am adopting it for my new layout, plus there is absolutely no chance of Buckingham being converted to DCC, at least not while I have it!

Understood, Tony, and that was absolutely not my intention.

 

As it happens, a good number of years ago I worked out a method using GPO 8PDT switches to do much the same as Buckingham's control system. It worked on a trial basis but would have been fearsomely complicated on a real layout so I abandoned it.

[Donw]

Yes I agree we close the discussion now. It is just different approaches. 

 

Don

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Getting back on track, are we inspired by layouts that were around when we were of a certain (impressionable) age? For me, it's those  layouts that were around in the late 1960s which especially inspired me. That'd be when I was around 12 - 15 years old.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Peter Kazmierczak

[Pacific231G]

17 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I have used DCC and the system on Buckingham is much more satisfying and enjoyable to work. You don't need to know which loco has been put on a train and which direction it is heading in and the locos do swap around a lot. Asking the operator at the other station "What loco have you put on and is it chimney first?" is hardly prototypical. All we do is accept the train that is offered, set the points and signals and turn the controller. 

 

 

Thanks. The wiring is not actually that complicated. It looks bad in the video because Peter Denny was constantly altering the track layout and the signalling, which needed the wiring modifying to cope with new moves without messing up old ones. After submitting the video, I did wonder if I should have added a wiring diagram showing how a platform at Buckingham is wired as it really isn't nearly as bad as the real wires make it seem.

 

If one would be of interest, I will put something together.

 

 

That would be very interesting Tony.

I rather liked the system that Geoff Ashdown came up  with for his EM Tower Pier (in my opinion a modern, though fairly traditional in its construction, classic which certainly inspires me now) in which essentially all tracks are connected to  a controller all the time except that anywhere where a loco would realistically  stop there is a "brake lever" (i.e. a dead section) and drivers must apply the "handbrake" when stopped. I think there may be some isolation of blind sidings by point setting as well. Locos aren't just parked in random locations so this seemed to make perfect sense and  a lot less complex than full control of power via signals *,

Tower Pier i a far less complex layout than Buckingham, operationally similar to Minories with a separate goods line and yard serving St. Katherine's dock,  and is very much a "signalman's layout" with proper block working with bell codes between the Tower Pier Box and the St. Katherine's Dock junction box (I'm not sure if that's what he called it)  i.e. the cassette based fiddle yard,  and an emphasis on prototypical operation. 

 

 

*Control of feeds by signals might not work for me anyway as on French railways there were far fewer signals, especially shunt signals, and without going into details, most shunting moves were hand-signalled by an "agent de manouevre" with signals protecting the whole area where shunting was taking place and "evolutions", standard moves such as running round a train, carried out under the train crew's responsibility.  

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Pacific231G

[t-b-g]

8 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

That would be very interesting Tony.

I rather liked the system that Geoff Ashdown came up  with for his EM Tower Pier (in my opinion a modern classic) in which essentially all tracks are connected to  a controller all the time except that anywhere where a loco would realistically  stop there is a "brake lever" (i.e. a dead section) and drivers must apply the "handbrake" when stopped. I think there may be some isolation of blind sidings by point setting as well. Locos aren't just parked in random locations so this seemed to make perfect sense and  a lot less complex than full control of power via signals,

Tower Pier i a far less complex layout than Buckingham, operationally similar to Minories with a separate goods line and yard serving St. Katherine's dock,  and is very much a "signalman's layout" with proper block working with bell codes between the Tower Pier Box and the St. Katherine's Dock junction box (I'm not sure if that's what he called it)  i.e. the cassette based fiddle yard,  and an emphasis on prototypical operation. 

 

Control of feeds by signals might not work for me anyway as on French railways there were far fewer signals, especially shunt signals, and without going into details, most shunting moves were hand-signalled by an "agent de manouevre" with signals protecting the whole area where shunting was taking place and "evolutions", standard moves such as running round a train, carried out under the train crew's responsibility.  

 

 

I agree about Tower Pier. It is superbly thought out. A modern classic indeed.

 

That system does sound rather like Grandborough Junction, which doesn't have all the subsidiary signals. There are isolating sections in each platform, just long enough to cater for any loco on a train which might stand there but which allow a pilot to attach or detach vans etc. from the rear of the train. Sidings in the marshalling yards and goods yard are isolated by the points but everywhere else is live to the Grandborough controllers unless it is switched to Buckingham or a loco is isolated by the switches. 

[Pacific231G]

6 hours ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Getting back on track, are we inspired by layouts that were around when we were of a certain (impressionable) age? For me, it's those  layouts that were around in the late 1960s which especially inspired me. That'd be when I was around 12 - 15 years old.

Hi Peter 

There are a number of older layouts that  I now find particularly inspiring but not necessarily the same older inspirational layouts that inspired me as a youngster. 

 

Those that most inspired me as a younger modeller, and judging by their prominence in my cuttings files  still do,  include the original Craig and Mertonford (I'm afraid the later versions left me rather cold) ,  Rev. P.H. Heath's 00n3 Llanfair, Max Pyrke's Berrow, Peter Denny's Leighton Buzzard mk 1, David Lloyd's Augher Valley  and a few others. 

Older layouts that inspire me now also include several that I was aware of but less inspired by at the time  such as Charford, Leighton Buzzard mk 2  and of course the Madder Valley. There have been several such as Frank Dyer's Borchester Market and Andy Hart's Achaux  that I either didn't know of or which I did see but that didn't fit in with my then interests. Borchester probably wouldn't have made much impression as articles unless I'd seen it in operation  when it was restored by the group from I think Newhaven: when  I did see it was fascinated by it. The same would probably have been true of  Tower Pier though that's a current layout. 

 

 Older layouts have inspired most of those that I've actually built or designed myself. Paul Stapleton's 0 gauge Wyandotte Transfer inspired my  first adult effort, a North American H0 switching layout;  Leighton Buzzard mk 1,  didn't inspire an actual layout but did provide the foldover baseboard design for an H0e rural steam tramway terminus while Rev. P.H. Heath's "Piano Line" led to  a developed design for a colleague. More recently, so perhaps not really an older inspirational layout, it was the H0m side of Giles Barnabe's St. Emilie that attracted me to the layout, but it was the enjoyment I got from its standard gauge terminus  while operating the layout at a number of exhibtions, that really inspired me to build my current H0 layout.  

Edited April 18, 2021 by Pacific231G

[D-A-T]

Does anyone know if there is an online listing/database of RM Railways of the Month?

I can semi-visualise the layout in my mind but it’s name has escaped me.

Any help or guidance gratefully received!

Thank you. 

[Donw]

3 hours ago, D-A-T said:

Does anyone know if there is an online listing/database of RM Railways of the Month?

I can semi-visualise the layout in my mind but it’s name has escaped me.

Any help or guidance gratefully received!

Thank you. 

 

Not a lot to go on there.

 

Don

[New Haven Neil]

On 17/04/2021 at 18:19, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Getting back on track, are we inspired by layouts that were around when we were of a certain (impressionable) age? For me, it's those  layouts that were around in the late 1960s which especially inspired me. That'd be when I was around 12 - 15 years old.

 

I think that was pretty much what was in my mind when I started the thread, but it stretches to me being perhaps 20.  That's a while ago though......  

[Nearholmer]

Bit difficult to explain on that basis why I find 0 gauge layouts of the 1930s, 40s and 50s so inspiring, since I wasn’t in existence for most of that time!

 

 

[ianathompson]

16 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Bit difficult to explain on that basis why I find 0 gauge layouts of the 1930s, 40s and 50s so inspiring, since I wasn’t in existence for most of that time!

 

Snap!

No real idea why I am so enthused by continental natrrow gauge when I never really saw it in the flesh.

 

Ian T

[t-b-g]

As Leighton Buzzard has had a mention, I thought I would attach a snap showing the station which had, until last week, never been attached to the rest of the layout since it came to me, around 10 years ago.

 

I have no idea where the years have gone but we had a good run on the exhibition circuit with it and I wanted to get the running in and out of the fiddle yard as good as I possibly could before I covered up all the approach pointwork and curves.

 

Well, last Thursday, the moment arrived and the little terminus was lifted onto its new legs and the layout now looks pretty much as it did the first time I saw it, when I had the opportunity to go down to Truro to meet Peter Denny and to see his layout.

There is quite a bit of work still to do on the wiring and on the track before we can run trains up the branch but it is a big step forward.  

[Pacific231G]

16 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

As Leighton Buzzard has had a mention, I thought I would attach a snap showing the station which had, until last week, never been attached to the rest of the layout since it came to me, around 10 years ago.

 

I have no idea where the years have gone but we had a good run on the exhibition circuit with it and I wanted to get the running in and out of the fiddle yard as good as I possibly could before I covered up all the approach pointwork and curves.

 

Well, last Thursday, the moment arrived and the little terminus was lifted onto its new legs and the layout now looks pretty much as it did the first time I saw it, when I had the opportunity to go down to Truro to meet Peter Denny and to see his layout.

There is quite a bit of work still to do on the wiring and on the track before we can run trains up the branch but it is a big step forward.  

Great to see it again Tony, I enjoyed it all the exhibitions where I saw it and its good to see it back in its proper place as part of Buckingham. When I look at this it almost seems as if Peter Denny went back to the early Buckingham Mk 2 perhaps?) when that was the terminus of a single track branchline. 

[Pacific231G]

6 hours ago, D-A-T said:

Does anyone know if there is an online listing/database of RM Railways of the Month?

I can semi-visualise the layout in my mind but it’s name has escaped me.

Any help or guidance gratefully received!

Thank you. 

Hi Don

If you can describe it a bit, just anything you remember about  it,  someone here may well be able to recognise it. I might it if it was in an older RM and others will probably be more familair with more recent RoMs .

[t-b-g]

41 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

Great to see it again Tony, I enjoyed it all the exhibitions where I saw it and its good to see it back in its proper place as part of Buckingham. When I look at this it almost seems as if Peter Denny went back to the early Buckingham Mk 2 perhaps?) when that was the terminus of a single track branchline. 

 

You are not wrong in your thoughts.

 

Peter told me that when the opportunity arose to build a new Leighton Buzzard, he tried to make it as much like the earlier version of Buckingham as he could. He said that although the new Buckingham was more interesting operationally, he always preferred the way the earlier one looked.

 

The track plan is very similar and of course there is the lovely station building that was on Buckingham Mk.2.

 

I think that is one of the reasons why I like it so much. I really liked the Mk. 2 Buckingham and LB is as near as we will get to it now.

[D-A-T]

2 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Hi Don

If you can describe it a bit, just anything you remember about  it,  someone here may well be able to recognise it. I might it if it was in an older RM and others will probably be more familair with more recent RoMs .

Hi

It was similar to Crewisle and Metropolitan Junction (EM). A very compact layout with structures and scenery pretty much limited to the railway itself. It had through and terminating platforms. Probably published in the 80s or 90s and I think it was the Mk III version so had history/previous articles? LNER possibly but I could be wrong. I don’t think it employed a backscene. Central operating space I think.

Thank you for helping. 

[kevinlms]

8 hours ago, D-A-T said:

Does anyone know if there is an online listing/database of RM Railways of the Month?

I can semi-visualise the layout in my mind but it’s name has escaped me.

Any help or guidance gratefully received!

Thank you. 

I have this listing from my index.

 

Nowhere near complete and some might argue with my logic (including Peco).

 

I have included follow up parts and included them as RotM too, which certainly wasn't what Peco designated them. I'm referring to the continuation, which is one or more in following issues.

 

Perhaps it should be pointed out that Peco didn't always follow their rules. For instance 1961 November had 2 RotM's!RotM 20210525.xlsx

 

 

[Nearholmer]

The trad way to identify a RotM seems to be to give a tantalisingly vague description, perhaps mentioning in passing that it used GEM point-levers, or some other tiny detail, then, within ten minutes, someone on RMWeb will have positively identified it, and have fond memories of operating it.

 

The virtue of the hive mind.

[kevinlms]

21 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

The trad way to identify a RotM seems to be to give a tantalisingly vague description, perhaps mentioning in passing that it used GEM point-levers, or some other tiny detail, then, within ten minutes, someone on RMWeb will have positively identified it, and have fond memories of operating it.

 

The virtue of the hive mind.

Even a ten year error in guestimates, doesn't seem to deter anyone!

[D-A-T]

What an excellent resource RMWeb is!

And yep 10 years out!!!!

I think the layout I was thinking of was Ashdon and Midport and it was in the December 1982 issue of RM. 

I did have a vague feeling it was named after its builder and so it was. 

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by D-A-T
Typo

[New Haven Neil]

8 hours ago, t-b-g said:

As Leighton Buzzard has had a mention, I thought I would attach a snap showing the station which had, until last week, never been attached to the rest of the layout since it came to me, around 10 years ago.

 

I have no idea where the years have gone but we had a good run on the exhibition circuit with it and I wanted to get the running in and out of the fiddle yard as good as I possibly could before I covered up all the approach pointwork and curves.

 

Well, last Thursday, the moment arrived and the little terminus was lifted onto its new legs and the layout now looks pretty much as it did the first time I saw it, when I had the opportunity to go down to Truro to meet Peter Denny and to see his layout.

There is quite a bit of work still to do on the wiring and on the track before we can run trains up the branch but it is a big step forward.  

 

Yes, yes and thrice yes!  This is still one of THE layouts for me, I can't really explain why, but seeing it in those old RM's when I was a lad just fired me up.  It still does.....

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, New Haven Neil said:

 

Yes, yes and thrice yes!  This is still one of THE layouts for me, I can't really explain why, but seeing it in those old RM's when I was a lad just fired me up.  It still does.....

 

There is still something magical about it. Although individual aspects of the layout have been surpassed in terms of accuracy and quality it remains my all time favourite. That is down to the design, the fact that one person built almost everything from scratch but mainly due to the way it operates.

 

A few hours running the layout with a couple of friends is as good as the hobby gets for me. The size, design, complexity and the level of concentration required to run it are all perfect. Not too much. Not too little. It has a balance and a harmony to it that I have never seen in another layout. 

 

When you combine that with the articles and books and age of the models and you know what an influence it has had on so many, to me it is still the number one layout in the history of the hobby and that makes me a very lucky and happy man to have it now.

Edited May 25, 2021 by t-b-g
To add gratuitous photo!

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, D-A-T said:

What an excellent resource RMWeb is!

And yep 10 years out!!!!

I think the layout I was thinking of was Ashdon and Midport and it was in the December 1982 issue of RM. 

I did have a vague feeling it was named after its builder and so it was. 

 

That layout also appeared in Model Railway Constructor for 1977 April and 1981 May.

[D-A-T]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

There is still something magical about it. Although individual aspects of the layout have been surpassed in terms of accuracy and quality it remains my all time favourite. That is down to the design, the fact that one person built almost everything from scratch but mainly due to the way it operates.

 

A few hours running the layout with a couple of friends is as good as the hobby gets for me. The size, design, complexity and the level of concentration required to run it are all perfect. Not too much. Not too little. It has a balance and a harmony to it that I have never seen in another layout. 

 

When you combine that with the articles and books and age of the models and you know what an influence it has had on so many, to me it is still the number one layout in the history of the hobby and that makes me a very lucky and happy man to have it now.

To me that is one of the iconic photos of  Buckingham that sums it up. A station approach with complicated, but not too complicated, track work which flows. Add in the signal box and signals and it just works!

I could waffle on about evolution, the fact it is a refinement of several previous versions and just not luck but that would be pretentious. After all it is only a model railway! (Ducks for cover ).

As has been said, it is the top of the list. It is THE model railway. And I’m still jealous of Tony!