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New Haven Neil

Older Inspirational Layouts

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5 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

I hope there was a layout as it won the Railway Modeller Cup for 1968. According to the Peco website it was featured in January (as Railway of the Month) , February and October 1968. Unfortunately, my run of bound volumes doesn't include that year so I can't tell you anything more about it. Railway of the Month did almost invariably include a layout plan.

There was indeed a layout and very good it was too. The January 1968 issue included a plan - the terminus was built across the diagonal of a room with the fiddle yard on one of the long walls. There was a later, extended version of the layout as well. When I'm back home at the weekend I'll try to remember to check the references in my copy of the late Bill Massey's Railway Search Index.

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8 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Hi Malcolm

Are those transparencies available anywhere? Though I accept that later versions of the CMR reflected P.D. Hancock's developing interests, the original version of the CMR was always far and away my favourite and It would be wonderful to see it in colour. I was never quite sure whether the cover picture on the April 1954 Modeller was taken from a colour photo or was a tinted B&W  image. I can't check that easily as I have it in a bound volume, which  doesn't include the front covers.

 

David

The short answer to your query is that as far as I am aware these early transparencies have not been published.   A couple have been offered to the RM but as yet no indication they might be published.    There are 12 in total of the first 1950/60 version of the layout, not all taken at the same time as, for instance, Craig Castle does not feature in one slide but does in another.   I would date them from 1955 to 1958.   I was uncertain at first whether they had been taken by PDH or a visiting photographer but David Ronald confirmed PDH did dabble in colour photography in the 50's.  This would possibly be borne out by the poster article in the July 1959 RM as the surviving posters [photos] from that time are in colour.  I might add these colour transparencies have been extremely useful when researching various aspects of the C&MR.  The colour photographs of the last 1970/87 version of the layout were all taken, according to the transparency mount dates, in March 1979 or earlier.  All the published transparencies and a number of unpublished ones survive in the PDH Collection.

 

With regard to the April 1954 RM cover photograph.  This must have been one of the first uses of colour in the model railway mags.  It appears to have been professionally sourced [and paid for by RM?] as it is labelled 'Railway Modeller' and 'Agfacolour by Alexanders of Edinburgh'.    Copies were available from the RM for seven and one half [old] pence, post paid, so there might be an odd one or two out there.  There are a couple in the PDH Collection one of which is displayed on my model room wall above Dundreich.

49096622171_313dae4efe_c.jpgIMG_3148 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

 

Malcolm

 

 

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6 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Were there any photos or plans available of Vivien Thomson's Eastbourne? Was there even a layout? I remember borrowing the Peco book from my local library and being disappointed that it was just about modelling buildings... should have paid more attention to the title I suppose!

The layout, including track plan appeared in RM. I don't remember which issue, though ive probably got it in a box, in the loft.

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30 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

The layout, including track plan appeared in RM. I don't remember which issue, though ive probably got it in a box, in the loft.

This was in 1968, and I recollect that it was the start of many articles by Vivien Thompson.  I would certainly like to see them again.

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10 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

 

The Wild Swan imprint is now owned by Titfield Thunderbolt and, in its  website, Simon Castens does mention criticism of the lack of colour photography.  According to this, Paul Karau, who set up Wild Swan eschewed digital publishing and stuck with physical layout of pages on sheets. Some book designers prefer to work that way and, given the very high quality- often glass plate- images from official photographs that the books included, that probably did make sense.  I have a few of Wild Swan's modelling books though and, colour is an essential element of modelling. Though my own efforts come nowhere near, I do refer quite often to Cottage Modelling for Pendon and the images on the end boards only emphasise what's missing inside.

The addition of colour to MRJ in 2002 certainly did it no harm but I don't know what production methods Paul Karau used for it.

 

Historically I believe Wild Swan's main product was the archive railway histories/albums, generally early 60s and before, so few colour photos would have been available. The few subjects (more recent histories and modelling books) may not have represented a significant enough proportion of their output to justify the outlay on new technology and its associated learning curve.

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4 hours ago, dunwurken said:

David

The short answer to your query is that as far as I am aware these early transparencies have not been published.   A couple have been offered to the RM but as yet no indication they might be published.    There are 12 in total of the first 1950/60 version of the layout, not all taken at the same time as, for instance, Craig Castle does not feature in one slide but does in another.   I would date them from 1955 to 1958.   I was uncertain at first whether they had been taken by PDH or a visiting photographer but David Ronald confirmed PDH did dabble in colour photography in the 50's.  This would possibly be borne out by the poster article in the July 1959 RM as the surviving posters [photos] from that time are in colour.  I might add these colour transparencies have been extremely useful when researching various aspects of the C&MR.  The colour photographs of the last 1970/87 version of the layout were all taken, according to the transparency mount dates, in March 1979 or earlier.  All the published transparencies and a number of unpublished ones survive in the PDH Collection.

 

With regard to the April 1954 RM cover photograph.  This must have been one of the first uses of colour in the model railway mags.  It appears to have been professionally sourced [and paid for by RM?] as it is labelled 'Railway Modeller' and 'Agfacolour by Alexanders of Edinburgh'.    Copies were available from the RM for seven and one half [old] pence, post paid, so there might be an odd one or two out there.  There are a couple in the PDH Collection one of which is displayed on my model room wall above Dundreich.

49096622171_313dae4efe_c.jpgIMG_3148 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

 

Malcolm

 

 

Thanks Malcolm

It wasn't obvious from the thumbnail images of the cover that were all I could find. I wonder whether "Alexanders of Edinburgh" really did just shoot that one scene?

I'd not seen your Flickr album before and there's some really excellent stuff in there. It's great to see Dundreich and I think the photo of PDH at Boness is the only one I've seen of him later in life. Thanks for putting them up.

Edited by Pacific231G
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12 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Were there any photos or plans available of Vivien Thomson's Eastbourne? Was there even a layout?

 

A few photos of the layout here: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74169-pre-grouping-layouts/&do=findComment&comment=2887404

 

But I can't recall ever seeing a plan.

 

Cheers

David

Edited by DavidB-AU
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11 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

I'd love to see a plan - Eastbourne is a fantastic subject for a decent sized terminus-based layout

As mentioned above, there was a plan in Railway Modeller. 

When she moved to the York area the layout had been dismantled

Baz

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IIRC she replicated if not every last catch-point of Eastbourne station as it was c1910, then at least enough of it, and accurately enough, that looking on nls maps at the relevant 25" maps will give you the layout plan.

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12 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Thanks Malcolm

It wasn't obvious from the thumbnail images of the cover that were all I could find. I wonder whether "Alexanders of Edinburgh" really did just shoot that one scene?

I'd not seen your Flickr album before and there's some really excellent stuff in there. It's great to see Dundreich and I think the photo of PDH at Boness is the only one I've seen of him later in life. Thanks for putting them up.

David

I only use my flickr account to host photos posted on forums but there are more photos on an archived Picasa account which can be found here: -

https://get.google.com/albumarchive/112904466287746079405?source=pwa

Malcolm

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So nice to see those pictures of Eastbourne again. To add to my previous post though, how could I have left out dear old Buckingham?

Takes me back to the MRJ show in 1990 where I spent most of my time watching Leighton Buzzard and John Charman's Charford.  Seeing those layouts made my day. 

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3 hours ago, 4109 said:

So nice to see those pictures of Eastbourne again. To add to my previous post though, how could I have left out dear old Buckingham?

Takes me back to the MRJ show in 1990 where I spent most of my time watching Leighton Buzzard and John Charman's Charford.  Seeing those layouts made my day. 

Hi 4109

AFAIK Peter Denny only exhibited Leighton Buzzard mk 2 that once (and from what I've heard you were fortunate to get near it) and Leighton Buzzard Mk 1 also only once and then as a static exhibit. However, since taking on the stewardship of Buckingham, Tony Gee,-TBG of this parish- has exhibited it several times, often accompanied by Peter Denny's sons and I've enjoyed it enormously on several of those occasions.  The high spot for me was ExpoEM in 2011 which included both Leighton Buzzard and Geoff Ashdown's Tower Pier- also a truly inspiring layout and very much still with us though it was never designed for exhibition.

I understand that the MRJ show was also the only latter day exhibition outing for Charford and that's a layout I'd have loved to have seen.

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9 hours ago, dunwurken said:

David

I only use my flickr account to host photos posted on forums but there are more photos on an archived Picasa account which can be found here: -

https://get.google.com/albumarchive/112904466287746079405?source=pwa

Malcolm

Thanks Malcolm. There are some very interesting  and inspiring photos there and I hadn't realised that quite so much of the final CMR had survived. Is the 7mm CMR a newer project?

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20 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

Thanks Malcolm. There are some very interesting  and inspiring photos there and I hadn't realised that quite so much of the final CMR had survived. Is the 7mm CMR a newer project?

 

The 4mm CMR was dismantled when PDH and his mother moved into a bungalow. 

 

The 7mm CMR was started in the loft of the bungalow (using some of the 4mm buildings as forced perspective). Some shots of the layout under construction appeared in Railway Modeller about 20 years ago but I don't know how close the layout got to completion.

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16 hours ago, 4109 said:

So nice to see those pictures of Eastbourne again. To add to my previous post though, how could I have left out dear old Buckingham?

Takes me back to the MRJ show in 1990 where I spent most of my time watching Leighton Buzzard and John Charman's Charford.  Seeing those layouts made my day. 

 

The thing that made my day was the queue for lunch took ages but I was lucky and Don Boreham was next to me in the queue had a fascinating chat with him and his friend. I did enjoy  seeing Leighton Buzzard and Charford along with all the other exhibits.

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14 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Thanks Malcolm. There are some very interesting  and inspiring photos there and I hadn't realised that quite so much of the final CMR had survived. Is the 7mm CMR a newer project?

 

14 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

The 4mm CMR was dismantled when PDH and his mother moved into a bungalow. 

The 7mm CMR was started in the loft of the bungalow (using some of the 4mm buildings as forced perspective). Some shots of the layout under construction appeared in Railway Modeller about 20 years ago but I don't know how close the layout got to completion.

David

As RJSS1977 points out the 7mm CMR was started in his loft but it was never completed, partly due to age but also partly due to the lack of insulation and the cold in the winter.  It was featured in 'Return to Craig' in the Nov. 2001 RM.   In addition to the buildings some of the 7mm narrow gauge and standard gauge stock was acquired by E&LMRC members, I myself acquiring the 7mm 'Alistair'.  

Malcolm

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And of course at the bungalow PDH also had the distraction of the Torlum Hill Light Railway running round his garden....

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By the time I was old enough to join the Edinburgh & Lothians MRC John Charman and Charford had moved on to pastures new.  I also did not manage to get to the MRJ exhibition [young family and no spare cash to skive off down to London] so never saw the layout in the flesh.   Don Rowland informed me that when Charford was dismantled John returned to him a wagon Don had built many years before for John and Charford.  What happened to everything else I know not.

Malcolm

Edited by dunwurken

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1 hour ago, dunwurken said:

By the time I was old enough to join the Edinburgh & Lothians MRC John Charman and Charford had moved on to pastures new.  I also did not manage to get to the MRJ exhibition [young family and no spare cash to skive off down to London] so never saw the layout in the flesh.   Don Rowland informed me that when Charford was dismantled John returned to Don a wagon Don had built many years before for John and Charford.  What happened to everything else I know not.

Malcolm

Phil Knife (Abbotsbury Southern) knew John Charman well and wrote an article about Charford for the British Railway Modellers of Australia journal "The Clearing House" a while ago. I'll try to dig it out and post some more information.

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On 21/11/2019 at 07:07, St Enodoc said:

There was indeed a layout and very good it was too. The January 1968 issue included a plan - the terminus was built across the diagonal of a room with the fiddle yard on one of the long walls. There was a later, extended version of the layout as well. When I'm back home at the weekend I'll try to remember to check the references in my copy of the late Bill Massey's Railway Search Index.

OK here we go - a full list of RM articles, many of which describe building construction in styrene sheet, by Vivien Thompson:

 

1/68 Railway of the Month - Eastbourne

2/68 Eastbourne - Locomotives and stock

7/68 Building Blakesley

10/68 Eastbourne - Making the station buildings

12/68 Wokingham

2/69 Rotherfield & Mark Cross

4/69 Slinfold

6/69 Claygate signal cabin

8/69 Cottages for Eastbourne

4/71 Railway of the Month - Eastbourne extended

9/71 Buildings at Eastbourne 1 - The backscene takes shape

10/71 Buildings at Eastbourne 2 - Warehouses and store sheds

11/71 Buildings at Eastbourne 3 - Around Ashford Square

12/71 Buildings at Eastbourne 4 - On the terraces

12/72 Buildings at Eastbourne 5 - A look at the shops

2/73 Buildings at Eastbourne 6- Gildredge Hotel

5/73 Buildings at Eastbourne 7 - The goods shed

7/07 Eridge

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5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Phil Knife (Abbotsbury Southern) knew John Charman well and wrote an article about Charford for the British Railway Modellers of Australia journal "The Clearing House" a while ago. I'll try to dig it out and post some more information.

Phil Knife wrote an article called "Charford in Retrospect" in the June 2013 issue of The Clearing House, which was a follow-up to an earlier one in December 2001 describing the line's final closure.

 

In summary, the original Charford was started in 1953 in a caravan while John Charman was in the RAF. It represented a Southern Railway branch in Dorset  in summer 1947, running from Chard Junction to Charford (located where the real Charmouth can be found). There was a GWR twig off the branch at Whitchurch Canonicorum to Bridport.

 

After John's demobilisation in the early 1960s the layout was extended in a new permanent location, where it remained until part of it was exhibited at the Model Railway Journal Central Hall exhibition in 1990. The original 1953 boards were incorporated in the expanded layout.

 

During the 1990s this version of Charford was dismantled and replaced by a new version, which incorporated part of the main line as well. By July 2001, due to John's failing eyesight, the line closed and was dismantled for good. Charford Station and the more recent Marshwood Junction boards were saved and continued under the ownership of other modellers, as did some of the locos and stock.

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On 10/12/2013 at 16:19, 5050 said:

Ooo yes, I remember that!  I also have a feeling that - just once or twice - the inevitable happened and the 'held back' train was let go only for something to derail before it got to the other end where it was normally caught by someone who was also good at wicket keeping.  The resulting carnage was impressive.

 

Didn't happen often.

 

Thankfully.

 

Someone will now reply that it never ever happened.

Oh it did, saw it do so at York Assembly rooms. Sound track fastest train etc, then oops....  

 

Wasn’t that also the layout that finished the  sequence with a rat.

Edited by john new
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