Older Inspirational Layouts

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Kubes said:

Another layout I particularly bonded with was an 00 system which featured in the Model Railway Constructor annual. From a four platformed Victoria it wound its way round a garage sized room through an island platform representing Clapham Junction and then to a three platformed East Croydon before finishing with a reversing loop and a spur to the single platform of Reigate. All home territory to the young Kubes. Trains were a mix of home built 2Bil and 4Cors interspersed with loco hauled Maunsell carriages for the East Grinstead services and the Newhaven boat trains. All this in the days when the Triang EMU was the height of sophistication. And the line was operated using something that the builder, one L Carroll, dubbed "linked section control" whereby power was fed to each section by clearing the home signal and the train would be driven towards the operator. So a stopping train to Reigate would be under Clapham control from Victoria and once halted at Clapham the signal there would be cleared and it would then be driven to East Croydon by the Croydon operator and so on. Similarly a fast train from Victoria would have all signals cleared through the intermediate stations and would be driven by the destination operator all the way. It sounded like great fun to operate and the builder managed to fit it all in without it seeming over cramped. In many ways it would be my ideal layout even today!

 

I remember that well and I agree. It was a really well designed layout and gave me much inspiration. It was "my sort" of layout and I am sure I would have enjoyed operating it. I recall a follow up article in a magazine about the layout being dismantled, with a prototype "last train" type of article. 

[Donw]

There was a n article remembering the Sherwood lines not too many years ago. If I remeber arright Stan Dickson was one of the regulars and the article included some memories from his son who had gone with him on sessions. Stan had an  0 gauge layout in a small space which was very good for the time and later went out into the garden with terminii in a shed.  

 

Don

 

[PatB]

1 hour ago, Kubes said:

Another layout I particularly bonded with was an 00 system which featured in the Model Railway Constructor annual. From a four platformed Victoria it wound its way round a garage sized room through an island platform representing Clapham Junction and then to a three platformed East Croydon before finishing with a reversing loop and a spur to the single platform of Reigate. All home territory to the young Kubes. Trains were a mix of home built 2Bil and 4Cors interspersed with loco hauled Maunsell carriages for the East Grinstead services and the Newhaven boat trains. All this in the days when the Triang EMU was the height of sophistication. And the line was operated using something that the builder, one L Carroll, dubbed "linked section control" whereby power was fed to each section by clearing the home signal and the train would be driven towards the operator. So a stopping train to Reigate would be under Clapham control from Victoria and once halted at Clapham the signal there would be cleared and it would then be driven to East Croydon by the Croydon operator and so on. Similarly a fast train from Victoria would have all signals cleared through the intermediate stations and would be driven by the destination operator all the way. It sounded like great fun to operate and the builder managed to fit it all in without it seeming over cramped. In many ways it would be my ideal layout even today!

 

I've got that MRC Annual, and like the layout a great deal. It's an excellent, and surprisingly late ( the annual was between 1978 and 1982, I forget exactly which), example of the "system" layout concept, which was once very popular but which has since fallen from favour somewhat. I'm not sure if I'd have the chutzpah to use the prototype names though . 

 

The mention of the "closure" article sounds more like Weybourne to me (another layout I liked), but maybe such fancies were popular amongst "modern image" Southern modellers of the time. 

[Pacific231G]

2 hours ago, Kubes said:

Another layout I particularly bonded with was an 00 system which featured in the Model Railway Constructor annual. From a four platformed Victoria it wound its way round a garage sized room through an island platform representing Clapham Junction and then to a three platformed East Croydon before finishing with a reversing loop and a spur to the single platform of Reigate. All home territory to the young Kubes. Trains were a mix of home built 2Bil and 4Cors interspersed with loco hauled Maunsell carriages for the East Grinstead services and the Newhaven boat trains. All this in the days when the Triang EMU was the height of sophistication. And the line was operated using something that the builder, one L Carroll, dubbed "linked section control" whereby power was fed to each section by clearing the home signal and the train would be driven towards the operator. So a stopping train to Reigate would be under Clapham control from Victoria and once halted at Clapham the signal there would be cleared and it would then be driven to East Croydon by the Croydon operator and so on. Similarly a fast train from Victoria would have all signals cleared through the intermediate stations and would be driven by the destination operator all the way. It sounded like great fun to operate and the builder managed to fit it all in without it seeming over cramped. In many ways it would be my ideal layout even today!

Hi Kubes

Do you happen to know which MRC annual it featured in?

Presumably it had featured in MRC before then.

By  a strange coincidence, I have two articles from MRN about "The Southern Centra"  layout on my desk right now.

The first was in August 1961 "Four minutes to Brighton" and the layout was as you describe it from the MRC annual except that "Victoria" was then still only a three platform station (It had been Brighton in a previous point to point layout).

In a further article in January 1969 "New Victoria Line" he described his new and much enlarged Victoia station now with five longer platforms, an improved throat built on a sweeping curve  and a shunting neck serving a kick back parcels platform , carriage siding and MPD. It occupied the same position across the back of the garage but on a wider baseboard. The total size of the layout was 16.5 x 8.5 feet and most of the layout (but not Brighton and East Croydon was on boards that could be hinged up (as counterweighted bascules no less)  to make room for the car.  

In the first article Carroll mentions three earlier articles "Linked Section Control at Work" MRN June 1958, Signal Box Sub-sectioning MRN June 1956 and "Train Exchange" MRN May 1955. I've just finished sorting my collection of early MRN and MRCs into boxes so  I'll have to see if I have them. 

 

In both the articles I'm looking at now he mainly focussed on the control arrangement which were based on section switching through the lever frame  and signalling so it was clearly the fairly intensive running of main line trains in a prototypical way that really interested him.

 

The trains he was running in 1961, all home built, included a 4 coach Brighton Belle set (due to be rebuilt as a 5-BEL) , a 4-COR, and  pair of 2-BIL sets and,  loco hauled, a five coach "City Limited" set, a 4 coach Hastings set (used for the Newhaven boats train pending construction of a Bulleid set as well as other steam hauled services) and a three coach 60ft birdcage set. I assume that by the time Victoria had been enlarged he'd also built more sets to occupy it.   

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Pacific231G

[Flying Pig]

3 hours ago, Kubes said:

Another layout I particularly bonded with was an 00 system which featured in the Model Railway Constructor annual. From a four platformed Victoria it wound its way round a garage sized room through an island platform representing Clapham Junction and then to a three platformed East Croydon before finishing with a reversing loop and a spur to the single platform of Reigate

 

Previously critiqued on the perennial Minories thread during last year's Spring growth spurt:

 

 

[Kubes]

7 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Hi Kubes

Do you happen to know which MRC annual it featured in?

Presumably it had featured in MRC before then.

 

 

Yes it was 1979. The article is credited to S W Stevens-Stratten who was the editor of MRC. It's mostly written in the third person but an occasional 'I' slips in which suggests that at least some of the text was provided by Mr Carroll. I have a full set of bound copies of MRC and I don't recall seeing the line there but I have seen it in MRN as you say.

[D-A-T]

I have this one in my inspirational folder. I’d be keen to see any other of the mentioned articles, especially on control. 

 

[Kubes]

35 minutes ago, D-A-T said:

I have this one in my inspirational folder. I’d be keen to see any other of the mentioned articles, especially on control. 

 

I'll see what I can do!

[kevinlms]

15 hours ago, Pandora said:

I think there was an  acclaimed prize-winning layout in RM, it was the source of many articles in RM, and judged "best layout of the year",  yet it was eventually revealed  ( I believe on passing away of the builder ) that all the shots of trains were posed for magazine photography, as  nothing could be run under power,  as the layout had never ever been electrically wired for operation of the locomotives,  the track was electrically dead!

I do not think it was the Madder Valley layout, can anyone identify the layout in question?

 

Was that Royston Junction by David Lees?

[bécasse]

11 hours ago, Kubes said:

Another layout I particularly bonded with was an 00 system which featured in the Model Railway Constructor annual. From a four platformed Victoria it wound its way round a garage sized room through an island platform representing Clapham Junction and then to a three platformed East Croydon before finishing with a reversing loop and a spur to the single platform of Reigate. All home territory to the young Kubes. Trains were a mix of home built 2Bil and 4Cors interspersed with loco hauled Maunsell carriages for the East Grinstead services and the Newhaven boat trains. All this in the days when the Triang EMU was the height of sophistication. And the line was operated using something that the builder, one L Carroll, dubbed "linked section control" whereby power was fed to each section by clearing the home signal and the train would be driven towards the operator. So a stopping train to Reigate would be under Clapham control from Victoria and once halted at Clapham the signal there would be cleared and it would then be driven to East Croydon by the Croydon operator and so on. Similarly a fast train from Victoria would have all signals cleared through the intermediate stations and would be driven by the destination operator all the way. It sounded like great fun to operate and the builder managed to fit it all in without it seeming over cramped. In many ways it would be my ideal layout even today!

Lewis Carroll was also responsible for the Model Railway Club's first OO gauge layout, the Longridge, Brampton Sands and Calshot Railway, a massive roundy-roundy built shortly after the Club moved into Keen House and quite innovative (hand-built track using Fleetwood-Shaw's method, for example) for its time.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

9 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Previously critiqued on the perennial Minories thread during last year's Spring growth spurt:

 

 

 

I built a near-replica of it in my 13'6" x 7'6" shed last summer.  See my Eagle Has Landed thread, page 38

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[PatB]

2 hours ago, Kubes said:

Yes it was 1979. The article is credited to S W Stevens-Stratten who was the editor of MRC. It's mostly written in the third person but an occasional 'I' slips in which suggests that at least some of the text was provided by Mr Carroll. I have a full set of bound copies of MRC and I don't recall seeing the line there but I have seen it in MRN as you say.

As I recall, the introduction in the MRC annuals always stressed that the content was heavily skewed towards articles for which there hadn't been room in the magazine. As such, I wouldn't be particularly surprised if the layout hadn't previously featured in the regular magazine. 

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, bécasse said:

Lewis Carroll was also responsible for the Model Railway Club's first OO gauge layout, the Longridge, Brampton Sands and Calshot Railway, a massive roundy-roundy built shortly after the Club moved into Keen House and quite innovative (hand-built track using Fleetwood-Shaw's method, for example) for its time.

I think I saw that at Central Hall in about 1966. It was indeed massive but that's about all I remember about it.

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

I built a near-replica of it in my 13'6" x 7'6" shed last summer.  See my Eagle Has Landed thread, page 38

 

 

There is so much stuff on RMWeb now that unless you make it a full time job, you can miss things quite easily. I had missed your thread up until now. I have had a good read now. Most impressive. That will be great fun to operate, whatever country it is set in.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

16 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

There is so much stuff on RMWeb now that unless you make it a full time job, you can miss things quite easily. I had missed your thread up until now. I have had a good read now. Most impressive. That will be great fun to operate, whatever country it is set in.

 

Well, it was fun for a while.... it's dismantled now.  I could not manage the duck unders, and the missing foot of length and width made the Clapham and Croydon stations impossible to include, plus making the Victoria platforms unworkably short.  And in the end I realised I didn't want to sit in a 'cockpit' and operate a railway, I wanted unimpeded walk-along ops. I also could not get the KDs to work with British OO stock.  

 

So, back to HO!

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

Well, it was fun for a while.... it's dismantled now.  I could not manage the duck unders, and the missing foot of length and width made the Clapham and Croydon stations impossible to include, plus making the Victoria platforms unworkably short.  And in the end I realised I didn't want to sit in a 'cockpit' and operate a railway, I wanted unimpeded walk-along ops. I also could not get the KDs to work with British OO stock.  

 

So, back to HO!

 

I must have missed that bit but there are lots of pages to look at!

 

If it is any consolation, you are not alone in starting projects and then changing direction.

[Kubes]

I've sent D-A-T a pdf of the MRC Annual article on Lewis Carroll's railway. If any other RMwebers would like a copy please pm me and I will oblige. Though it might be a day or two as I'm out all day tomorrow and back working on Monday.

[Nearholmer]

Does it have a walrus and carpenter walking on the sand scene on it?

[RJS1977]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Does it have a walrus and carpenter walking on the sand scene on it?

 

No, Walrus and Carpenter were shunting the Guinness brewery at Park Lane ;-)

 

(Two Hibberd 0-4-0DMs, one now at Quainton Road and the other at Wallingford - later replaced by the 08s 'Lion' and 'Unicorn' both also now at Wallingford).

[Nearholmer]

The walrus and the carpenter

Were walking hand in hand.

If only, said the carpenter,

The law would understand.

 

(I think Spike Milligan, but am not sure)

[pete_mcfarlane]

15 hours ago, D-A-T said:

I have this one in my inspirational folder. I’d be keen to see any other of the mentioned articles, especially on control. 

 

I remember being impressed by the article in the MRC annual ('South for moonshine'), especially by the model EMUs. This was in the early 1990s when I acquired my late Grandfather's railway books, and modelling the Southern electric was rare.

 

I think Clapham Junction has a few less platforms than in real life.  That's the only bit for me that doesn't work - I can believe the 5 platform Victoria and 3 platform East Croydon, but not the tiny Clapham Junction. 

[RJS1977]

3 minutes ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

I remember being impressed by the article in the MRC annual ('South for moonshine'), especially by the model EMUs. This was in the early 1990s when I acquired my late Grandfather's railway books, and modelling the Southern electric was rare.

 

I think Clapham Junction has a few less platforms than in real life.  That's the only bit for me that doesn't work - I can believe the 5 platform Victoria and 3 platform East Croydon, but not the tiny Clapham Junction. 

 

Yes, looking at the plan earlier I thought that if the East Croydon-Reigate section was on the same level as Clapham Junction, a set of platforms could be put in between EC and Reigate (Redhill?) which would make Clapham Junction look bigger.

[LBRJ]

Just thinking about IMREX 84...

 

I may be wrong, but I sort of remember that the following were there....

 

The ESLR Rice & Barlow

Bodmin P4 North London Group

Petherick  Barry Norman

and

Victoria Square by Mac Pyrke

 

IF I am right, just how good was the show!!!

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by LBRJ

[St Enodoc]

51 minutes ago, LBRJ said:

Just thinking about IMREX 84...

 

I may be wrong, but I sort of remember that the following were there....

 

The ESLR Rice & Barlow

Bodmin P4 North London Group

Petherick  Barry Norman

and

Victoria Square by Mac Pyrke

 

IF I am right, just how good was the show!!!

 

 

 

I think that was the year I was there helping Terry Onslow with his Southern Electric "Witton" layout.

[Donw]

Whn I saw ESLR  at IMEX next to it was Jas Milham with Yaxbury. Worth going to for just those two layouts.

 

Don