250BOB Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Bit of help if possible please. The Q1 runs fine with the tender attached....remove the tender, and it is virtually a non starter......start/stop, extremely poor. Only does half a cm before needing another nudge. Pretty certain its not the pickups......have tweaked them for all their worth, although everything points to them.?? Wheels spotless, backs as well.....totally cleaned. When the loco is skewed slightly one way, it works, also skewed the other way it works.....what is it that we are improving by skewing the locos wheels.? What else could it be other than the pick ups.......its nothing obvious.....3 of us have at this for two days now. We thought of removing the base plate next and looking in there......is there anything obvious we are missing.? Or is it something subtle, cos we think we have covered all the obvious bases. Thanks.......Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim49 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Bob, I had a Black 5 that behaved exactly as you describe. Turned out that although the loco pick-ups were bearing properly against the wheel backs, the rest of the electrical path to the motor was a joke and not contributing anything to the party. The pick ups on one side join up to become a single strip of copper which is sandwiched between the keeper plate and the chassis. This strip has to be placed precisely or the path is not complete and power does not get through. The other side I think was hard-wired so no problem there. Try loosening the keeper plate and then re-tightening it in the hope that you make the small adjustment that will be required to sort it out. I stripped the whole thing down and successfully re-assembled it but the sand pipes were never the same again! HTH Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 As above. This loco still has the old style construction with no wires soldered to the pick up strips on the loco. There's a peg on the bottom of the chassis block that contacts one pick up strip, so the chassis block is then live to one rail, and pick up from this rail is then routed to the decoder socket via the wire from the worm cover securing screw. The other rail, an eyelet in the inner keeper plate makes contact with the pick up strip, and a wire goes from eyelet to decoder socket. When you skew the loco on the track you work the pick up wiper strips a little so they shift a bit and temporarily make better contact with the 'onward connection'. Soldered wire connections are the way forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Hey Guys.............I have seen this stud arrangement on a previous Hornby loco that I had apart 3 or 4 years ago.......I thought then that this was a bit of a wing and a prayer. As you both suggest....the keeper plate has got to come off and get a closer look at what is going on. Thanks both for such quick replies tonite. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted February 7, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2013 I've also just bought a second Q1 for my layout - 33005 with later emblem to go with 33017 with earlier enblem. The pickup problems seem to be worse on the newer one but I think I've improved things now. One thing I've noticed is that the later tender is much lighter: 75 gm on the scales compared to 115 gm on the earlier so it looks like it doesn't have any weighting. The new Q1 runs much better with the older, heavier tender so I may add some weight to the newer one. If the tender pickups are doing their job they should eliminate any problems with the loco pickups. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted February 7, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2013 Indeed the tender innards have been redesgined with a smaller weight - new tender at top with old underneath. Looks like I need to add some weight to the top one ... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim49 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I suspect that the tender weight has been reduced in size to give more space for a speaker. Easily solved as you say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 I've also just bought a second Q1 for my layout - 33005 with later emblem to go with 33017 with earlier enblem. The pickup problems seem to be worse on the newer one but I think I've improved things now. One thing I've noticed is that the later tender is much lighter: 75 gm on the scales compared to 115 gm on the earlier so it looks like it doesn't have any weighting. The new Q1 runs much better with the older, heavier tender so I may add some weight to the newer one. If the tender pickups are doing their job they should eliminate any problems with the loco pickups. These are my pals Q1's but I dont know what models they are........other than one is weathered and the other not. The pristine model runs perfectly.......the weathered one like a dog.!! The weathered one with the pristine tender is fine.......so you think,, ahh, its the tender. But, the pristine loco works fine with no tender.......the weathered loco no go at all. So it looks like the problem lies in both loco and tender on the weathered model. We will be opening the loco up in the near future to have a look inside he base plate at whats going on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim49 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Was the weathering done by Hornby or by the owner? If the latter perhaps he has been a bit heavy-handed and got paint on the inside face of the wheel rims, just where the pick-ups bear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 I think we almost solved it tonight. By a long process of elimination, and removal of the base plate, then the pick up, then another base plate which one of the pick up studs has a wire running from. It appears that the connection between wire and pick up stud is hit and miss. We will have to remove the motor so that that wire can be pulled down to reveal the back of the stud, and then check out and resolder the joint. I shall try and post a few pics over the weekend to show the issue. We have sweat blood on this tonight..!!! Bob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed 66 plant Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I think we almost solved it tonight. By a long process of elimination, and removal of the base plate, then the pick up, then another base plate which one of the pick up studs has a wire running from. It appears that the connection between wire and pick up stud is hit and miss. We will have to remove the motor so that that wire can be pulled down to reveal the back of the stud, and then check out and resolder the joint. I shall try and post a few pics over the weekend to show the issue. We have sweat blood on this tonight..!!! Bob I can vouch for that!!!!!! ----- It is my loco and I was with Bob trying to correct it--I think we are about to get there, Thankyou all for your help and a big thankyou to Bob, regards, Ed 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 I can vouch for that!!!!!! ----- It is my loco and I was with Bob trying to correct it--I think we are about to get there, Thankyou all for your help and a big thankyou to Bob, regards, Ed It was a pleasure Ed, we both had a very enjoyable evening getting to know your Q1 thoroughly. Had another squint briefly this morning, where the wire comes down through the body and connects with the stud. It is absolutely definitely where the problem lies. The stud that goes through the plastic base plate, also holds a small metal tab in place that the wire is attached to. The join between tab and stud is not a soldered joint.....and it does need to be in order to overcome the problem, at the moment the tab and stud just swivel. Ed and I will tackle that asap, and report back with pictures which will make things clearer. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 Reporting back following a final fix for the errant Q1. Eventually the wire that comes from the 8 pin decoder socket, down through a hole in the chassis beneath the motor, was soldered to the pick up directley. Also, the backs of both loco wheels but particularly the tender wheels had to be cleaned. It wasn't the tyres, but infact the wheel backs that needed sanding to bright finish before the pick ups would transmit power. I have never known wheel backs to have to be cleaned so intensely. It now runs really well. Bob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandalfUK449 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 I have had the same problem. I found that my loco would hardly move without the tender. Upon servicing I saw the wire to one side of the pickups was almost broke. only one thin strand connected. So I replaced the contacts as they have a wire on the the new one. This improved things slightly, it is still very slow unless I held down the loco or turned it slightly. I'm still at a loss for this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherman Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Hi all, Is it not possible to hardwire the engine contacts directly avoiding the poor connectivity of the original pick ups. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandalfUK449 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 If it works better when you twist the loco or put a little pressure on it, then. Open up the area with the pick-ups. Make sure the wire is connected well. I then strip some wire from a scart lead (the fine wire not the thicker one.) Lay it across the stub on the chassis pick-up. Put it back together. You should have 2 or 3 fine copper wires between the stub and the copper contact. This corrects the problem. Well it has for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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