Jump to content
We will be upgrading the forum software Wednesday morning - the site may be down for a while during backup/install.
JohnBS

Saint class locomotive

Recommended Posts

Looks very nice, always pleased to see something new from the GWR.

 

Just thinking, would it be possible to print a version 3% bigger for N gauge? I am wondering how it would look mounted on a Dapol Hall chassis? I know the wheels would be a touch small but not nearly as bad as some of the old Farish offerings.

I will look into this and see what it entails. However, beside the issue of too small drivers, the problem of fitting the Dapol motor and drive in the small 3000 gallon tender would need to be considered. I don't know if and when Saints were paired with the larger tenders.

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will look into this and see what it entails. However, beside the issue of too small drivers, the problem of fitting the Dapol motor and drive in the small 3000 gallon tender would need to be considered. I don't know if and when Saints were paired with the larger tenders. John

 

The Saints ran widely with the 3500 gallon tenders as paired with Manors, 28xx, etc. Lovely photo 2906 in BR days with this tender and straight cab frames in GWRJ issue 42 page 103. We are supposed to be getting a batch of these tenders from Dapol without loco at some point. I am slightly surprised you are not doing the loco to 1:148 in the first place so you could pair it with a ready made tender.

 

There is also a photo of 2945 paired with a Collett 3500 tender - the one Peco do/did with the 2251 - in 1947. The photo is in GWRJ 43 page 153.

 

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps when there's a new Castle the driving wheel problem will be solved.

 

That would solve the whole chassis problem :-) Only really need to change the cylinders and slidebars for a Saint.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks very nice, always pleased to see something new from the GWR.

 

Just thinking, would it be possible to print a version 3% bigger for N gauge? I am wondering how it would look mounted on a Dapol Hall chassis? I know the wheels would be a touch small but not nearly as bad as some of the old Farish offerings.

 

 

That's more than a touch mate, and I think it would look pretty silly. In fact I think good old Farish would probably be an example of how silly, as they specialised in undersized wheels.

 

However, it might be possible to source some bigger wheels to put into the Hall?

 

I could donate a Hall chassis to the cause so you can see what it looks like. There's one in pieces here that is definitely spare, or you could have a complete one.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is also a photo of 2945 paired with a Collett 3500 tender - the one Peco do/did with the 2251 - in 1947. The photo is in GWRJ 43 page 153.

 

Although that particular tender is an oddity. By which I mean the model.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Saints ran widely with the 3500 gallon tenders as paired with Manors, 28xx, etc. Lovely photo 2906 in BR days with this tender and straight cab frames in GWRJ issue 42 page 103. We are supposed to be getting a batch of these tenders from Dapol without loco at some point. I am slightly surprised you are not doing the loco to 1:148 in the first place so you could pair it with a ready made tender.

 

There is also a photo of 2945 paired with a Collett 3500 tender - the one Peco do/did with the 2251 - in 1947. The photo is in GWRJ 43 page 153.

 

Chris

Chris,

All a bit late for my modelling period (1925 +/- 10 years).

As to a new 'Castle', what have you heard on the grapevine? Presumably, it would need a new boiler and cab in any case.

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They all look the same to me.....

 

Tim

Tim,

They are obviously the wrong shade of green - I blame that Churchward bloke.

John

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As to a new 'Castle', what have you heard on the grapevine?

Nothing, but can you see the current 1980s model remaining the 'best' r-t-r Castle for much longer? The fact that the wheel centres also match the Hall (& Saint & Star) is a convenient by-product of Churchward's standardisation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing, but can you see the current 1980s model remaining the 'best' r-t-r Castle for much longer? The fact that the wheel centres also match the Hall (& Saint & Star) is a convenient by-product of Churchward's standardisation.

As is the fact that they were commonly paired with the same 4000 gallon Collett (driven:D) tenders as the Halls.

 

I could donate a Hall chassis to the cause so you can see what it looks like. There's one in pieces here that is definitely spare, or you could have a complete one.

Thanks for the offer, I might wait and see how the printing turns out. Edited by Karhedron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They all look the same to me..... Tim

 

 

Like those Gresley pacifics - except the one with the racing front end  :jester:  

 

Jerry

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although that particular tender is an oddity. By which I mean the model.

 

Not really. There were 27 of the prototype built. Just none of them ran with a 2251 (probably). 26 of the 27 ended up behind Granges. Hornby have modelled this tender in 4mm. Before that, they are known to have run with Stars, Halls and Saints.

 

Not sure why you think the model is an oddity. It's just not paired with the correct loco.

 

Chris

Edited by Chris Higgs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris, All a bit late for my modelling period (1925 +/- 10 years). As to a new 'Castle', what have you heard on the grapevine? Presumably, it would need a new boiler and cab in any case. John

 

I would be very surprised if there were not Saints paired with 3500 gallon tenders by 1930. So far as I can see, the photos of 2919 and 2920 in the Russell Volume 2 and dated as late 1920s are both coupled to Churchward 3500 gallon tenders. The only real way to tell a Churchward 3000 from a 3500 is by its width - height of the sides was the same for both. So you can tell the 3500s because they are wider than the cab.

 

Even the Collett 3500 as pictured behind 2945 may well have run with Saints pre-war. They were built in 1929 and are recorded as being paired with Saints, Halls and Saints.

 

The real problem is finding pre-war photos to check.

 

Chris

Edited by Chris Higgs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris,

Many thanks for that - I will do a bit more digging for photos.

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure why you think the model is an oddity. It's just not paired with the correct loco.

 

I'd not looked into it and so always presumed that it was an oversize 3500 gallon one rather than a correctly sized 4000 gallon. Hence, in my mind the model was incorrect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saints ran with 3500g tenders from a very early stage (1910-ish?). A good comparison of the standard and Collett 'intermediate' 3500g tenders is given here. I can't recall offhand any Saints running with a 4000g tender.

Edited by Miss Prism

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Saints ran with 3500g tenders from a very early stage (1910-ish?). A good comparison of the standard and Collett 'intermediate' 3500g tenders is given here. I can't recall offhand any Saints running with a 4000g tender.
Saints ran with 3500g tenders from a very early stage (1910-ish?). A good comparison of the standard and Collett 'intermediate' 3500g tenders is given here. I can't recall offhand any Saints running with a 4000g tender.

Miss Prism,

Many thanks for the link - lovely photos. It is clear to me that I will be aiming to pair the Saint with the early style tender - they just look right together and make a lovely couple!

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

Thanks for all the helpful comments and suggestions. I expect to make the final amendments to the 3D artwork this weekend and upload it to Shapeways so, last call for comments and suggestions.

Then the nail-biting wait starts. I will post pictures of the result as soon as available.

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd not looked into it and so always presumed that it was an oversize 3500 gallon one rather than a correctly sized 4000 gallon. Hence, in my mind the model was incorrect.

 

I think you thought it was an oversized 3000 gallon tender, which was the one that ran with many 2251s, including the preserved example (there were 50 of those). This is an urban myth spread by modellers who have not checked their prototypes too carefully! It is in fact a correct model of a slightly rarer tender of 3500 gallons. We double checked with Peco, and they confirmed this is what they have produced. There is a drawing of this tender in the Russell book on page 239. These tenders had numbers 2242-2268 (tender numbers, not loco numbers) and were built in 1929-30. 

 

The Collett tender designs in fact shrank rather than grew. The larger and most common 4000 gallon tenders were first built in 1926, the 3500 gallon tenders came in 1929, and finally the 3000 gallon version, built in 1940.

 

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saints ran with 3500g tenders from a very early stage (1910-ish?). A good comparison of the standard and Collett 'intermediate' 3500g tenders is given here. I can't recall offhand any Saints running with a 4000g tender.

 

Those are lovely models. Both types ran with Saints, although the 'intermediate' was a rare beast indeed, with only 10 built. There were in addition some Dean 4000 gallon tenders which were rebuilt and looked pretty much the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In 2mm, I guess the only standard 3500g RTR tender is the one behind Ixion's Manor?

And the forthcoming Dapol 2884.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the 'late intermediate' 3500g tender, as done by Peco, but I'm not sure any Saints ran with them:

 

5021146564_019a195c0a.jpg

DSCN6141 - GWR 2251 Class 3205 by SVREnthusiast, on Flickr

 

In 2mm, I guess the only standard 3500g RTR tender is the one behind Ixion's Manor?

 

I'm pretty sure that that is the Collett 3000, not the 3500.  The front of it is not high enough in relation to the 2251 cab for it to be a 3500. Not to mention none of the Collett 3500s are preserved - although there is a reproduction coupled to 7821.

 

There is a thread here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/12475-gwr-collett-2251-class/ where the same tender is described as the 3000 gallon. Perhaps I can find a photo where you can read the tender plate to be sure.

 

Chris 

 

Chris

Edited by Chris Higgs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.