richbrummitt Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Saints ran with 3500g tenders from a very early stage (1910-ish?). A good comparison of the standard and Collett 'intermediate' 3500g tenders is given here. I can't recall offhand any Saints running with a 4000g tender. The tenders would have been new then? That doesn't discount Saints running with them then but it might make it less likely. It would count them in as a definite possibility for John's model though Could the top picture on p56 of GWR Locomotives on the Main Line be a straight framed Saint with a 3500 gallon tender? It seems to have more gap between engine and tender than other similar angles show (for example on the previous page). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Thanks, Chris, you're probably right. I'd always assumed those were 3500g. The 3000g tenders were built specifically for the 2251s I understand because the supply of second hand tenders for them had dried up by the war, and anything heavier would have restricted their area of operation too much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBS Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 Hi all, Thanks for all the fish. The finished artwork is now en route to Shapeways for final manual (?) checking, and, I hope, printing. Below are a couple of renderings of the finished product and I hope that the reality approaches this. Rear three-quarters view. The firebox backhead is a separate component which could be useful for other classes with a No 1 boiler Front three-quarters view. Now with revised valve chests, holes for lamp irons, bolts/rivets, valve linkage rocker bearings, etc John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 There is a photo of 2935 'Caynham Court' running with a Collett 3500 tender (the one Peco have modelled) in 1932 in the latest GWRJ - issue 84 page 209. OK, this is the unusual Poppet valve gear engine, but I think it shows that Saints did run with these tenders more or less directly from when the tenders were built in 1929. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I am attaching here some information about GWR tenders and their locos here. I have only tried to cover in detail the 'unusual' tenders and their allocations. For Saints, the normal tender by the 1920s and 1930s was the Churchward 3500, but quite a number ran with the Collett 3500. The Stars were pretty evenly split between Churchward 3500 and Collett 4000 even before the war, although as you can see at least one ran with each of the Collett 3500 and the intermediate tender. I also finally found a decent broadside shot of a 2251 with an intermediate tender, at the back page of GWRJ 25. GWR tender diagrams.pdf GWR tender photos.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBS Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 Hi all, Below are some photos of the trial printing from Shapeways which arrived yesterday (18 Feb). The result is straight out of the box and hasn't been cleaned of wax. Left hand side Right hand side Top Underneath Backhead I will do a bit of fettling in the next day or so and then give them a dust of primer and post the results. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Nice of them to build it the right way up so the footplate is flat and not ridged. Unless the situation has changed the orientation is at shape ways discretion so it would seem you have lucked in there. I'll look forward to seeing further progress. Your locomotives are beautiful and I'm sure this one will be no exception. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 19, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2013 The print seems to have come out very nicely. I'm sure that it will turn out to be fantastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBS Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 I've now cleaned off the wax and given the model a very light sand and a dusting of grey primer. Bolt/rivet details have come out well Dimples for handrail knob holes, etc are just about visible Still a bit more sanding to do and another coat of primer Progress!! John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted February 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2013 That really does look rather good John. Most of the prints I have seen include chimney, dome etc but I think leaving them off makes cleaning up an awful lot easier. The print has certainly caught those simple, elegant Edwardian lines to perfection. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 That's superb John - certainly fueled some inspiration to have a go at this 3D printing lark! Cheers, Pix Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 That looks fantastic John! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill-lobb Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Looks like a lovely piece of work. I have no experience of anything produced by 3D printing and there are a couple of things I am curious about: 1) The initial finish looks a little rough to me. Is that a feature of the print process, and does it take much effort to get it smooth? Or is it a case of the photograph making it look worse than it really is? 2) How heavy is the body? Are there any issues with weighting the loco? Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Bill, If I may jump in? 1, The finish does come out a little rough. This is due to the process and where things currently are with this technology. It is not more difficult than cleaning up any similar plastic part. 2, The prints are light, like plastic mouldings, except in some cases they can be thinner so they weigh even less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBS Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share Posted March 4, 2013 Looks like a lovely piece of work. I have no experience of anything produced by 3D printing and there are a couple of things I am curious about: 1) The initial finish looks a little rough to me. Is that a feature of the print process, and does it take much effort to get it smooth? Or is it a case of the photograph making it look worse than it really is? 2) How heavy is the body? Are there any issues with weighting the loco? Bill Bill,To answer your points: 1) I used Shapeways Fine Ultra Detail (FUD) material which is transparent, or at least translucent. An effect of this is that the printing imperfections on both the outer and the inner surfaces interact and produce an exaggerated appearance of roughness. Cleaning and a coat of primer reduce the rough appearance - the photos of the primed model posted earlier had a first dusting of primer to highlight imperfections, then a rub-down with wet and dry and a further coat of primer. A second rub down and prime should see it fit for detailing and finishing. 2) The model is light - density of FUD is about the same as injection moulded plastic and the maximum wall thickness I used was 1mm. I left a hole behind the firebox backplate which will allow the whole boiler to be filled with a 6mm diameter roll of lead; this should give enough mass for a fairly large tender loco but it may be a real problem for small tank engines. (I resorted to using copper tungsten - specific gravity c15, compared to 11 for lead - for the boiler, tanks and even toolboxes of a diminutive 517). Hope that this helps. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBS Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 Hi all, I have now cleaned and primed the separate backhead printing for the Saint Still to add will be a bright steel (or at least nickel silver) regulator and one or two other shiny bits, then paint. Presumably the backhead would do for most GWR locos with a No 4 boiler, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill-lobb Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Bill, If I may jump in? 1, The finish does come out a little rough. This is due to the process and where things currently are with this technology. It is not more difficult than cleaning up any similar plastic part. 2, The prints are light, like plastic mouldings, except in some cases they can be thinner so they weigh even less. Bill, To answer your points: 1) I used Shapeways Fine Ultra Detail (FUD) material which is transparent, or at least translucent. An effect of this is that the printing imperfections on both the outer and the inner surfaces interact and produce an exaggerated appearance of roughness. Cleaning and a coat of primer reduce the rough appearance - the photos of the primed model posted earlier had a first dusting of primer to highlight imperfections, then a rub-down with wet and dry and a further coat of primer. A second rub down and prime should see it fit for detailing and finishing. 2) The model is light - density of FUD is about the same as injection moulded plastic and the maximum wall thickness I used was 1mm. I left a hole behind the firebox backplate which will allow the whole boiler to be filled with a 6mm diameter roll of lead; this should give enough mass for a fairly large tender loco but it may be a real problem for small tank engines. (I resorted to using copper tungsten - specific gravity c15, compared to 11 for lead - for the boiler, tanks and even toolboxes of a diminutive 517). Hope that this helps. John Thank you both for your responses. I'd be interested to experiment with some printed models, although it is more likely to be by trying someone else's kit rather than doing my own. I am full of admiration for the 3D drawings of locomotives - I can about manage a chair made up of cuboids in Sketchup. The printed bodies before painting look rather ethereal to me: a bit like ghost trains. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Nothing, but can you see the current 1980s model remaining the 'best' r-t-r Castle for much longer? Not very long as it turns out. It will be interesting to see exactly what approach Bachmann take to solve the problem of the leading and middle driving wheels being so close together on a Castle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Not very long as it turns out. It will be interesting to see exactly what approach Bachmann take to solve the problem of the leading and middle driving wheels being so close together on a Castle. Old favourites are undersized and or flangeless wheels. The latter would look very wrong! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 My money's on a slightly tweaked wheelbase (which I think is what John has done with his Saint?) Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Nothing, but can you see the current 1980s model remaining the 'best' r-t-r Castle for much longer? The fact that the wheel centres also match the Hall (& Saint & Star) is a convenient by-product of Churchward's standardisation. Not very long as it turns out. It will be interesting to see exactly what approach Bachmann take to solve the problem of the leading and middle driving wheels being so close together on a Castle. Yes, that will be interesting to see. With the Castle sorted and Dapol's Open Day coming up the King must surely be in the firing line now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBS Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Andy, You are right about the Saint wheelbase - I increased axle 1 to axle 2 from a scale 14.0mm to 14.5mm and even this will require a bit of flange reduction for N-gauge wheels (no bad thing) and not too much slop in the bearings. Below is a new photo of the Saint superstructure - it has had the handrail hole marker dimples drilled out and a further light rub down and prime. I am awaiting the 3D model drawing of the Churchward 3,500 gal tender. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 With the Castle sorted and Dapol's Open Day coming up the King must surely be in the firing line now. And hopefully some nice 1930s flat-ended stock to go with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBS Posted April 10, 2013 Author Share Posted April 10, 2013 Hi all, The Saint's progress. A 3,500 gal tender is at an advanced design stage and should be ready for printing in a few days - I will post a rendering as soon as available. Meanwhile I have made reasonable progress on the scratch built chassis which should be in rolling condition tonight or tomorrow. Again I will post some images as soon as available. Watch this space. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted April 11, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 11, 2013 That is most impressive John. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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