Steve R Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Further to the very helpful thread here (‘Paris’ http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/59977-paris/..) I’m also going to Paris for the first time, in March, and will have two or three days by myself. As well as doing some conventional tourism I am wondering about spending maybe, half a day on an SNCF train ride. Knowing next to nothing about French railways, I would welcome any ideas on interesting trains to catch (where they go to is secondary). I’m keen if possible to find a loco-hauled service rather than TGV or multiple unit (i.e. a ‘proper’ train), and preferably an interesting route from a railway point of view. I had a quick look at SNCF’s website last night and wondered about doing the ‘Intercity’ services to Orleans, but don’t know what type of stock they would be? Also, is it worth paying to go first class on such trains? I’m not referring to the cost but whether there is any discernible difference from standard class, i.e. not just standard class seating labelled ‘first class’ as many suburban TOCs do in the UK. Appreciate any suggestions. Best regards Steve R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNCF stephen Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Intercity to Orleans was (last year at least) a Corail Teoz service running with either 7200's or Sybic locomotives hauling. Some of the rakes were 14 carriages long and as the train leaves Paris there is a lot to look at in the various yards. It does get a bit bland as you get out into the crop fields but one point of interest is the Aerotren track that runs parallel to the mainline for about 18 miles. If you keep a sharp eye out you will see the 3 stations that were built (now disused), it does rather stand out from the rest of the landscape. If I were you I'd book as early as possible to get the maximum discount. There are various ways of doing that. I am sure other people will be able to fill you in on some of the other routes. It is a shame that the loco hauled 72000s are not still running to Mulhouse. Have a fun time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Another possibility would be to take the train to Auxerre, which I believe currently runs from Bercy, rather than Gare de Lyon. The scenery is slightly less boring than on the run to Orleans, whilst a stay on the platforms at Laroche-Mignennes (the junction for the Auxerre line)will give you a chance to watch the trains on one of France's busiest main lines. It's also not necessary to reserve in advance (unlike TEOZ services), which gives you a degree of flexibility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve R Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 Thanks for your prompt replies and suggestions gents. Will look into them...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Looking at the latest update on this site:- http://lapassiondutrain.blogspot.com.au/ it would appear that the trains to Belfort are still hauled by CC72000; this is the line that passes through Troyes, which should be an easy trip from Gare d'Est. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted February 7, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2013 He's not going to get to Belfort and back in half a day. Scenery a bit boring for a lot of that run too but I can see the attraction of, now rare, diesel haulage. If going down that route, Culmont-Chalindrey is probably best destination. Or perhaps a round trip, Paris-Lyon to Dijon (still some loco haulage), Culmont-Chalindrey, Paris-Est (if timetable makes it possible). Agreed that Paris-Austerlitz to Orleans is quite a good option, with the added bonus of trams. My personal favourite exit from Paris is out of Montparnasse to Versailles-Chantiers. Loco-hauled push-pull double-deckers (as they have been since the 1930s, although it was of course steam back then). Not very interesting after Versailles though. If doing the tourist trek as well, keep in mind that Chantiers is a much longer walk from the Chateau than the other two Versailles stations. On mainline trains, 1st is quite a bit more comfortable than 2nd. The extra legroom and better seat placement also makes for better views out of the windows. Some good deals available in 1st - sometimes cheaper than 2nd! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I wasn't thinking of Belfort, rather of Troyes. Troyes has quite a nice centre to wander about as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve R Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 Thanks for all of your suggestions. I spent a long time deciding between Troyes (attracted by the diesel haulage) and Orleans (attracted by the trams), but in the end plumped for Orleans due to convenience. With the location of my hotel, frequency of departures, and in particular the timing of trains to Troyes; Orleans has lot of advantages. To get to Auxerre appears to cost more than either Orleans or Troyes due to the lack of 'Prems' tickets. Unfortunately I appear to have run into a snag. Having made the decision (quite late at night) I thought I better book promptly (as mentioned by SNCF Stephen). I booked through the SNCF web site (which is only in French) rather than RailEurope as it seemed to be cheaper.... The booking appears to be successful, and my credit card has been debited, but there are no seat reservations shown. I thought Intercity trains all required seat reservations, and in particular discounted ‘Prems’ tickets? I am able to print the ‘e-billet’ ticket, complete with QR codes, and with specific trains mentioned but again no seat reservation. If I review my order on the SNCF website it comes with the following message at the top: “! La consultation de votre placement est indisponible.” The exact meaning of which I can’t quite be sure. I’ve emailed SNCF asking for confirmation of the validity of the ticket but two days later still no reply. In short, I fear I may have bought an invalid ticket – a Prems ticket for trains on which there was no availability, and hence no seat reservation. I realize this is all getting rather involved and you’ve each been very kind to advise me on where to go, but if anyone can clarify the issue of seat reservations and give a view on whether I have a valid ticket it would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I don't think you need a reservation for trains (except for TGV workings). For a relatively short service it's probably just a 'free for all' in terms of finding a seat (the way it should be!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNCF stephen Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I would also suggest that the services at that time of day would not usually be packed to the rafters. I think if you get one of the very very early cheaper tickets then you have to reserve a seat then. If there are any issues then give RailEurope a call as they are very helpful and they assign a member of staff to deal with your issue so you will be talking to one person which is a refreshing change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I've never had to book a seat except on a TGV. Have a nice time. On the way out of Paris, the depot at Paris Sud Ouest is on your right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belsay Lad Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/38544-french-steam-tramway-museum/?hl=%2B%26%2339%3Bbelsay+%2Blad%26%2339%3B&do=findComment&comment=825031 I haven't quite worked out how to put links to other threads in this site into current ones so hope this works (PM me if not and if you are interested) OK, you are on modern SNCF stock to travel which is maybe not what you are after but once you get there.... cheers E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I don't think you need a reservation for trains (except for TGV workings). For a relatively short service it's probably just a 'free for all' in terms of finding a seat (the way it should be!)You need a reservation for the TEOZ services; certainly for the ones towards Clermont Ferrand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Thanks for all of your suggestions. I spent a long time deciding between Troyes (attracted by the diesel haulage) and Orleans (attracted by the trams), but in the end plumped for Orleans due to convenience. With the location of my hotel, frequency of departures, and in particular the timing of trains to Troyes; Orleans has lot of advantages. To get to Auxerre appears to cost more than either Orleans or Troyes due to the lack of 'Prems' tickets. Unfortunately I appear to have run into a snag. Having made the decision (quite late at night) I thought I better book promptly (as mentioned by SNCF Stephen). I booked through the SNCF web site (which is only in French) rather than RailEurope as it seemed to be cheaper.... The booking appears to be successful, and my credit card has been debited, but there are no seat reservations shown. I thought Intercity trains all required seat reservations, and in particular discounted ‘Prems’ tickets? I am able to print the ‘e-billet’ ticket, complete with QR codes, and with specific trains mentioned but again no seat reservation. If I review my order on the SNCF website it comes with the following message at the top: “! La consultation de votre placement est indisponible.” The exact meaning of which I can’t quite be sure. I’ve emailed SNCF asking for confirmation of the validity of the ticket but two days later still no reply. In short, I fear I may have bought an invalid ticket – a Prems ticket for trains on which there was no availability, and hence no seat reservation. I realize this is all getting rather involved and you’ve each been very kind to advise me on where to go, but if anyone can clarify the issue of seat reservations and give a view on whether I have a valid ticket it would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks Steve From the wording on the ticket, it would appear you have a valid ticket, but no designated seat reservation. The ticket is valid only for the trains shown, and can be neither changed nor refunded. I wouldn't have any qualms about using this ticket. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve R Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 All sorted now. I have been worrying unnecessarily, somehow convincing myself about the need for a reservation. Today I received a very politely worded email, in English, from SNCF confirming what several of you have correctly pointed out above, and just now (of course!) found the page on SNCF’s website that would have answered my question about reservations on Intercites: http://www.sncf.co.uk/Default.aspx?tabid=2916 As for the message “! La consultation de votre placement est indisponible.”, I now think this is simply saying the booking cannot be altered. Looking forward to the trip and will probably have a nose around some of the other Paris termini while there. Will post a couple of pictures here afterwards (around early March). Again, thanks for all your responses. Cheers Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 All sorted now. I have been worrying unnecessarily, somehow convincing myself about the need for a reservation. Today I received a very politely worded email, in English, from SNCF confirming what several of you have correctly pointed out above, and just now (of course!) found the page on SNCF’s website that would have answered my question about reservations on Intercites: http://www.sncf.co.uk/Default.aspx?tabid=2916 As for the message “! La consultation de votre placement est indisponible.”, I now think this is simply saying the booking cannot be altered. Looking forward to the trip and will probably have a nose around some of the other Paris termini while there. Will post a couple of pictures here afterwards (around early March). Again, thanks for all your responses. Cheers Steve ! La consultation de votre placement est indisponible.” simply means that 'you can't check your booked seat', because there isn't one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 We await pics with interest. It's a shame Orleans Les Aubrais is closed, you could always go on to Tours St Pierre........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve R Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 So, as promised here are a few railway snaps of my trip to Orleans: An extremely cold, grey day. Despite planning a generous walking time to Austerlitz, as usual, I arrived hot and out of puff with only 5 minutes to go before departure. Grabbed this quick snap of the locomotive. An impressive array of other electric locos lined the bufferstops on the main concourse, and I don’t recall seeing a single multiple unit here. Perfect. First class was the right choice. This was the kind of journey I used to enjoy in the UK – a peaceful empty carriage, going at speed behind a locomotive. Only three other people and perfectly quiet. Though I was hooked up to the ipod. A fellow first class passenger. Expensively clothed and richly perfumed. Speeding round a curve. The ride on these coaches is beautifully smooth, and the subtle but effortless acceleration of the train after clearing the Paris suburbs was exquisite. What is a Virgin Voyager to this? Noted two cement trains heading the other way. The landscape is flat but on a grey misty morning the intriguing variety of pylons, and further south wind turbines, looked good lurking in the distance. Grain silos both derelict and operative, also add interest, and the Aerotren track mentioned by SNCF Stephen. Another plus is the very few trees blocking your view of the scenery. Something interesting at Les Aubrais - three ‘Pullman’? cars. The two visible here, and a plain green vehicle out of sight. The locomotive uncoupled at Orleans. It seems the one role on SNCF for which you don’t need a uniform is to drive trains. That’s the driver taking a look at something and his mate approaching. The locomotive that will work the stock back to Paris. Does anyone know why they have not been replaced with EMUs or at least by locomotive + driving trailer? A few shots of the trams in Orleans. I would say this is the most aesthetically pleasing LRT system I’ve seen. Arguments against LRT on the basis of visual intrusion only have to look here. The golden trams fit into an historic city street far better than everyday motor cars. The most understated tram stop in the world. Walking back to Orleans station. An SNCF electric pulls out of some sidings to the west of the station. I first noted at Orleans but later saw in other locations, security personnel wearing black fleeces. There was a such a person on the gate here who I’d seen earlier on the station. A ‘Sybic’ brought the stock in for my return. Ha, the same loco I had outwards was working my return trip. In the days when I took numbers this would have been a disappointment. It doesn’t bother me now of course. ………….. Different interior on the way back (different rake of coaches). Snazzy but perhaps dated stripy seat fabric. These seats were less comfortable. There’s a town about halfway between Orleans and Pairs that we glide over on a viaduct, curving at the same time giving a good view of the town. Below the viaduct were some grain wagons being taken under loading hopper by a small orange shunter. There was a delay on the return trip and we sat for 20 minutes or so in a suburban station near Paris. Spotted a small SNCF shunter emerging though an arch with some cement wagons not far from Austerlitz. And there’s something about derelict French signal boxes with their names in faded paint, several of which I passed, that just begs to be modelled…. Back at Austerlitz. All in all a great trip. Thank you again for your advice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Glad you enjoyed your trip. What was that fancy (concrete?) roof in your first photo? Have they covered in part of the approach to Austerlitz? I know there was a lot of building going on when I was there a few years ago. The black-jacketed security staff are SUGE (can't remember what it means); they make the average Group 4 security guard look like a nursery nurse. Amongst their various deeds have included beating up non-uniformed SNCF staff, and arresting a driver (stopped at a signal at 02:00 at Lyon Perrache) ,urinating against his loco, for public indecency. They are less popular than a pox-doctor's clerk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve R Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 Austerlitz put me in mind of a mini, mirror image Liverpool Street. One half (the high numbered platforms) are under a tall Victorian overall roof, while the lower numbered platforms are beneath the low concrete roof you see in the first picture. As well as the black jacketed security guards there were a couple of other variteties at some stations in Paris, with a more military look. I presume these were police. I only asked permission to take photos when I looked at Saint Lazare, going to the SNCF information counter to do so. The old but quite firendly SNCF man on the counter said it was not possible, I suspect because it was the easiest option for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Austerlitz is in two halves, the more modern part still has tracks that run through under Paris, and is more often used by RER trains. I used to love traveling by train in France, although it's some years now since I've done much, my last trip was Isle-sur-la-Sorgue to Avignon to Miramas and back to Isle, hot summer.....about four years ago now. I was refused access to Avignon depot as the chef de depot was not there to authorise it, and his deputy, a young woman, wasn't going to do so in his absence. At Miramas I still spent a couple of hours on the station photographing trains, and walked over the lines to the small museum and the shed without any bother. Isle sur la Sorgue is a quaint little station that sees few passenger trains, but DOES (did) have quite a lot of freight including the yellow TGV Poste half sets daily on their way from Paris to Cavaillon and back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNCF stephen Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 That was a superb set of pictures. I really thought that you had done a great job illustrating the journey and it looks like you had fun. I am glad you saw the Aerotren track, it is one of those relics that I doubt would get built today. I am impressed with Orleans tram system. It is reminiscent of the section around the centre of Bordeaux which has those odd conduits in the middle of the line, interestingly they also had the minimalistic platforms in an archaeologically sensitive area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foulounoux Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Loved the pictures, especially of the trams passing through square (place) in Orleans. It was in the chancelleries brasserie that my wife and I had our first row :-(. She wasn't impressed with the meal, we had eaten at another restaurant previously in the same square and picked the wrong one on our return for our honeymoon. Some grey starter, a raw mixed grill etc etc but hey still married 17 yrs on so couldn't have been that bad. Back to the trains, just seeing a broken nose loco and you know your in France. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Or Holland...they have some too.......http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Dutch_Railways_1600_Class.jpg/220px-Dutch_Railways_1600_Class.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Or Holland...they have some too.......http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Dutch_Railways_1600_Class.jpg/220px-Dutch_Railways_1600_Class.jpgSome were also sold to Yugoslavia, I believe, whilst Morroco bought some of the 'broken-nose' diesels (CC72000) new, and others second-hand. The cab-design looks unaerodynamic, but comes into its own when driving into the sun for long periods, reducing glare and solar gain for the driver. The lower part serves as a 'crumple zone' in the event of a collision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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