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Farish Class 60


russellwar
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I got a Class 60 last christmas and have now converted it to DCC. At some point I think whilst having the body off the loco has become a little louder - almost like a slight grinding.

Especially noticably compared to the new 47 or an 08. I never recall it being this loud.

 

Anyway - a couple of questions

 

1. Is the Farish 60 louder than their 47? ie am I just imagining something

2. I can get the body, circuit board and then 2 clips on the chassis apart, but how do I go further to get into the motor?

 

Thnaks

 

Russell

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1. Is the Farish 60 louder than their 47? ie am I just imagining something

 

It's the same motor and worm drive assembly in the 60 as in the 47 so there shouldn't be much audible difference.

 

2. I can get the body, circuit board and then 2 clips on the chassis apart, but how do I go further to get into the motor?

 

Before going that far, have you lubricated the gearing, lubricated the worm axles (accessible from underside when bogies removed - bogies are just a push fit so should pop off with a little tug).

 

Also, check to see if the noise is there when running the motor block with the bogies detached.

 

Cheers,

Alan

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Hi Russell

The 60s do seem a bit louder, but I put this down to the whacking great holes in the side of the body allowing the sound out.

Taking the chassis apart, in addition to what you say, the underframe tank moulding pulls off, and there is a screw holding the chassis halfs together hidden in here. IIRC this is the only screw on a 60, others can have more

All Farish chassis follow a pretty well standard assembly, with just screw location etc being a little variable, but not too much

cheers

 

jo

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It's the same motor and worm drive assembly in the 60 as in the 47 so there shouldn't be much audible difference.

 

 

 

Before going that far, have you lubricated the gearing, lubricated the worm axles (accessible from underside when bogies removed - bogies are just a push fit so should pop off with a little tug).

 

Also, check to see if the noise is there when running the motor block with the bogies detached.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

 

Are you sure the bogies just pull off? Worried I will break something!

 

Got the underframe off - thanks!

 

Will try those things tomworrow - when the hangover subsides!

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You have to give the bogies a fair old tug (!) to get them out but this is how it seems to be intended. Once removed you can make them slightly easier next time by bending the tabs at the top a fraction inwards, but going too far can result in the bogies spontaneously falling out when the loco is picked up!

 

Someone on one of these forums posted that you shouldn't oil the motor bearings themselves as the oil finds its way into the brushes. This being so I think removing the bogies will give access to all the oilable parts.

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You have to give the bogies a fair old tug (!) to get them out but this is how it seems to be intended. Once removed you can make them slightly easier next time by bending the tabs at the top a fraction inwards, but going too far can result in the bogies spontaneously falling out when the loco is picked up!

 

Someone on one of these forums posted that you shouldn't oil the motor bearings themselves as the oil finds its way into the brushes. This being so I think removing the bogies will give access to all the oilable parts.

 

 

Thanks for the confirmation, will give it a go.

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Well, before I got the bogies off (the methods above worked fine) another problem developed! I tried one more run before I decided to remove the bogies.

 

The loco has decided to run only at about half pace in one direction?

 

I am tempted to unsolder the decoder and see how it runs without it in, but I have no idea where the clips are to cover the pcb. Do they need to go on?

Is there any other test i could do to see if it is the decoder or loco......or do I contact the dealer I got it from?

 

Russell

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To revert it to DC you could connect the pads where the red and the orange wires go, and the black and the grey. These should be next to each other where the clips used to be, and if you no longer have them I guess a bit of wire or the lead from a resistor will do the trick. Need to be careful as I doubt the pads will survive many re-solderings.

 

Probably worth checking whether the motor runs any better without the bogies. You could solder a DC connection temporarily to the orange and grey pads to check this in the course of the re-wiring above. Often a tiny bit of debris between the gear teeth will cause the sort of effect you are seeing - but I find I need to look for ages under a magnifying lamp to see anything especially when it's all covered with a nice fresh coating of oil! It is also possible you have a split gear, usually found on older models but I have had one with a 66.

 

Finally check the resistance between the motor contacts on the PCB. Anything below about 30 ohms and the motor is defective, see the thread on poor running with Farish 37s. This may change depending on armature position so try it again after pushing the worm round with a screwdriver (having removed both bogies. This problem may damage the decoder.

 

Just a thought. Are the lights steadily lit through all this? If they are flickering then suspect a pickup problem.

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To revert it to DC ......

 

Surely it's easier just to unscrew the PCB, which then disconnects the motor contacts (copper strips that drop down from the PCB and contact the motor terminals), and allows you to connect the motor straight to a DC source?

 

Cheers,

Alan

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Maybe, but wouldn't it be a bit fiddly poking around in the slot to get to the contacts?

 

It doesn't look it providing you dismantle the chassis (3 screws). The motor itself has a pair of contacts with a hole through the middle clearly intended for soldering (I assume its a standard part ?). You would have to figure out what all the other gubbins on the board does. I have been wondering about this from the point of view of trying to stuff a sound decoder into these locos - and there isn't space with the board present.

 

Would be very interested to know if anyone has gone this path ?

 

Alan

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Whilst not part of a DCC installation, in my 47 (a respray and detail of the "high rider") I've replaced the circuit board with 2 wires due to not wanting to keep the lights, as they were replaced with TPM etches. After unscrewing the PCB, I simply joined the PCB mount on one half of the chassis to the motor contact, and did the same with the other half of the chassis. Runs lovely, far smoother and controllable than with the circuit board in place. The method of mounting the wire I used was to solder the wire to a scrap of etched brass, drill a hole, and use the PCB retaining screw to hold it in place

HTH

 

cheers

 

jo

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A big thanks to all that offered help.

 

With you help, I managed to remove the bogies and in the end took the whole chassis apart and rebuilt. Runs like a treat now. I think maybe one of the drive shafts was slightly loose. Who knows

 

Russell

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Well I spoke to soon! I let it run a while and the issue of speed is now gone. I think the excess noise may well be a clicking in one of the bogies. I removed both bogies and realise that one free wheels in both directions but the noisy one definately 'jams' every now and then.

 

So is this a split gear or a bit of ballast (or anything else!)

 

Having removed the bogie from the loco,

 

is it

1) possible

2) easy

 

to take the bogie apart?

 

i cant see any way to get at the bogie. I thought there was a clip on the inside end but it did not seem to move?

 

Russell

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Having removed the bogie from the loco,

 

is it

1) possible

2) easy

 

to take the bogie apart?

 

i cant see any way to get at the bogie. I thought there was a clip on the inside end but it did not seem to move?

 

Russell

 

 

The bogie sideframe will come off just the same as old Farish models - it has clips front and back onto the central bogie moulding that holds the wheels - a small screwdriver should help lever it off, or a thin scapel blade. Form there the wheels will be exposed and you can just pop the axles out individually and then inspect for errant stuff or gear problems.

 

Would be interested to know if it's a split gear (and which class 60 it is if it has one) - never heard of one on a class 60 yet.

 

Cheers,

Alan

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I wasted 2 hours of my life sorting out a similar problem yesterday on my new Loadhaul 60 which I foolishly fitted the decoder to before thoroughly testing.

 

After a total strip down I found that one of the flywheels was not pushed far enough on the motor shaft which caused it to catch on the metal frame. A bigger problem was the motor shaft being banana shaped meaning that even when I pushed the flywheel fully on the shaft there would still be slight contact with the frame. I managed to partially straighten the shaft enough to improve the running significantly and reduce the noise quite a bit too.

 

Next time I shall be testing the loco thoroughly before fitting the decoder!!

 

Regards

Graham

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Clicking almost certainly means a split gear or something blocking the teeth. I've never dared to dismantle a bogie beyond what Dr Al suggests, as I suspect it would be a one-way operation. If you remove the axles this divides the gear train into several shorter portions, so by rotating the remaining gears you may be able to locate the problem better to one of the fixed gear train portions or one of the axles.

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So I had the bogie apart and tried running with different combinations of gears in and it seams fine. I could get every cog out except the main one at the top that connects to the brass worm. This cog is under the pick up plates which I did not fancy removing.

 

Upon reassembling no difference.

 

So I am thinking of sending it back as I don0t fancy doing much more. As it is more htan a year old (by a few days) I am thinking the guarantee is done.

 

I have 2 options - return the whole loco to Alton Model Railway Centre, who in turn will probably have to send it to be fixed.

The other is to contact BR lines and see if they can do anything.

 

Think this may be the quicker way and I don't think it should take to long.

 

Russell

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So I had the bogie apart and tried running with different combinations of gears in and it seams fine. I could get every cog out except the main one at the top that connects to the brass worm. This cog is under the pick up plates which I did not fancy removing.

 

Upon reassembling no difference.

 

So I am thinking of sending it back as I don0t fancy doing much more. As it is more htan a year old (by a few days) I am thinking the guarantee is done.

 

I have 2 options - return the whole loco to Alton Model Railway Centre, who in turn will probably have to send it to be fixed.

The other is to contact BR lines and see if they can do anything.

 

Think this may be the quicker way and I don't think it should take to long.

 

Russell

 

When you reassembled the bogie did it free wheel like the other? Also worth checking the wheel backs where the central plastic boss is - sometimes there can be moulding flash on the backs of them that can catch on pickups or the main bogie moulding. Check the main moulding too for flash for same reason. Also, none of the gears should be stiff on their stub axles.

 

Another way of checking for splits on the main wheel gears (the others shouldn't split as they aren't an interference fit) is to see if the gear will move sideways along the axle - if any are loose enough to do so with little force then they are likely split.

 

Best Regards,

Alan

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I did find a little flash on one of the cogs and removed that. it really seems to be the uppermost cog that gets caught on something?

 

i have sent BR lines an email so I will see what they say.

 

I really dont fancy taking the pickups off to get to that top cog!

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Had exactly the same problem with my farish 66's

 

I completely took the bogie to it's core elements and i still can't find the issue.

Be interested to see what BR lines say, as i've had this with two 66's now!

though both mine were early models, i shouldn't have thought it would matter?

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Had exactly the same problem with my farish 66's

 

I completely took the bogie to it's core elements and i still can't find the issue.

Be interested to see what BR lines say, as i've had this with two 66's now!

though both mine were early models, i shouldn't have thought it would matter?

 

The first runs of 66s were troubled with split gears (known problem), so there is a good chance this may be it.

 

Cheers,

Alan

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I've suffered this problem with one of my 66s (66 200, which was the second EWS 66 released), although one one of my 60s also clunks, though strangely only in one direction.

 

 

Just as mine does

 

Still no reply from BR lines so far

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