RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) On the valve gear breaks like Steve had I think I've found why too. The drop link can jam straight if the loco is handled with it at the extreme of travel. Mine had popped up, it locked straight as I tried to pop it down and if I'd tried to run it could have broken off like Steve's. So watch those drop links after handling them Edited July 1, 2017 by PaulRhB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Actually further examination has shown nothing has actually broken! the pin which attaches the drop lin to the centre driver crank has simply popped out thus releasing the drop link arm to swing freely. I have actually looked at the possibility of a repair but the pin could be anywhere and is tiny.. the possibility of using a cut down track pin comes to mind The pin just appears to plug in to the fitting on the crank but not pass through it so how it was retained in place is a mystery to me The retailer has agreed to replace the loco when he gets more stock, I am wondering if any one would notice if I experimentally cut off the pony pickups to check the running, perhaps not! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted June 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2017 On the valve gear breaks like Steve had I think I've found why too. The drop link can jam straight if the loco is handled with it at the extreme of travel. Note mine had popped up in this photo, it locked straight as I tried to pop it down and if I'd tried to run it could have broken off like Steve's. So watch those drop links after handling them That could be tricky using these locos at shows as not everyone will remember how to handle these if they need to. However if as Steve says that a pin will work then there is a reasonable solution to fix them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2017 That could be tricky using these locos at shows as not everyone will remember how to handle these if they need to. However if as Steve says that a pin will work then there is a reasonable solution to fix them. Yes I think just being aware of it if turning them over is all you need to do. My only concern now is fitting the pipe along the frame, they say cut off the locating pips because there are no locating holes and it's springy plastic so I doubt they will last long if glued! I think a wire copy is the answer with the ends popped into holes drilled in the bufferbeams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) The pin popped out very early on in the testing phase it probably hadn't run more than a few yards in total, so maybe the pin had not been secured correctly in the first place, I have noticed that the 'popping up' you show in the pic occurs quite frequently on both my locos ( well only on the good side on Exe) As Paul says we have to be carful handling these locos I had to watch myself when disassembling Yeo earlier I noticed also that someone reported he had recvd his 2 locos from Parkside Dundas one of which was TAW which I was advised was not available until later (think it was onNGRM) Edited June 16, 2017 by Stevelewis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike at C&M Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I would like to return this thread to the subject of supply of the models into the shops, and quote an e-mail that was received from Heljan a week ago. (shown below). No model shop should be in any doubt that the initial batch they receive is probably not their full allocation. If this information is not being passed on to customers, it is not the fault of Heljan - we have been told what is going on! "Dear Heljan retailer We have recently despatched the initial delivery of our new L&B narrow gauge locomotives. Unfortunately we did not receive our full consignment of models and have therefore had to supply retailers with part orders. We thought it preferable to supply part orders to all, rather than complete orders to a few, and trust this meets with your agreement. Rest assured, as soon as we can, we will supply the balance of all outstanding orders. Thank you for your understanding." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swsjames Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I took delivery of Yeo yesterday, and am severely disappointed, having built my first 009 layout for these locos and waited years for them finally to appear. Not to mention spending a lot of money on the loco and the layout for it. The worst problems, which others have also noted: 1 - The loco will not run over Peco 009 pointwork: it derails and shorts out. I've coaxed it over some points at s snail's pace, but at realistic speeds, it is hopeless. My Minitrains works engine (the Baldwin 2-6-2T) copes happily with my pointwork. 2 - The loco will not couple to Peco rolling stock - the coupling bar is too high.If I make it couple, it lifts the front wheel of a wagon or coach off the rails. So the model makes a very pretty static display item in a siding, but is useless as a working engine. I've reminded myself of the rave review in the April Railway Modeller, which said that Heljan and Peco had liaised to ensure the engine would run on Peco code 80 009 track. The reviewer also said that the couplings provided a "perfect match" to Peco rolling stock. Do these reviewers actually take the loco out of the box and try to run it on a proper layout with a train? I'd expect a proper critical review, not a mere advertising puff, misleading at that, for a manufacturer trying to flog an ill designed product. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2017 Did you read my fix for the coupling? It's so simple and only requires a few seconds Now to derailing and shorting, what points, setrack, 12 inch crazy track or mainline? The bogie fix sorted mine and just needs tweezers and a screwdriver, if you don't feel you should have to then take it back to the shop and ask them to do it for you as they are the supplier. Here's someone who's been waiting a long time . . . 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I took delivery of Yeo yesterday, and am severely disappointed, having built my first 009 layout for these locos and waited years for them finally to appear. Not to mention spending a lot of money on the loco and the layout for it. The worst problems, which others have also noted: 1 - The loco will not run over Peco 009 pointwork: it derails and shorts out. I've coaxed it over some points at s snail's pace, but at realistic speeds, it is hopeless. My Minitrains works engine (the Baldwin 2-6-2T) copes happily with my pointwork. 2 - The loco will not couple to Peco rolling stock - the coupling bar is too high.If I make it couple, it lifts the front wheel of a wagon or coach off the rails. So the model makes a very pretty static display item in a siding, but is useless as a working engine. I've reminded myself of the rave review in the April Railway Modeller, which said that Heljan and Peco had liaised to ensure the engine would run on Peco code 80 009 track. The reviewer also said that the couplings provided a "perfect match" to Peco rolling stock. Do these reviewers actually take the loco out of the box and try to run it on a proper layout with a train? I'd expect a proper critical review, not a mere advertising puff, misleading at that, for a manufacturer trying to flog an ill designed product. Hi Glad you made it over here!! there are several suggestions on earlier post worth a read Can I ask what radius Peco points are you using? are they the 9" Setrack or the 12" or 18" radius? my locos do not seem to have any problems with my points but they are 18" radius ones It will be interesting to see if there are any reviews soon in the Magazines, or follow up articles I bet I know one magazine who will be silent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swsjames Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Hi Glad you made it over here!! there are several suggestions on earlier post worth a read Can I ask what radius Peco points are you using? are they the 9" Setrack or the 12" or 18" radius? my locos do not seem to have any problems with my points but they are 18" radius ones It will be interesting to see if there are any reviews soon in the Magazines, or follow up articles I bet I know one magazine who will be silent I am using the 12" radius 009 points. I will look at the solutions proposed to see if they help. But I would have expected Heljan to have identified and ironed out these problems rather than leaving their customers to find DIY solutions off the web. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) As it only seems to be affecting a few I suspect it's minor assembly issues which means they need to tighten up their quality control a bit further rather than poor design. Unfortunately these things can't all be foreseen as they might not occur on the test samples so Heljan may only be finding out with us. The derailing seems to be a bit of flash from stamping and probably isn't there on examples where the contact piece had been fitted the other way up. One of the consequences of these tiny and highly detailed models is the tolerances are more critical and trying to do it down to a price means they can't be checked individually so problems are more likely. Over the years I've had a Bachmann std 4 tank where the motor burnt out within 2 minutes. Two Bachmann spectrum locos that suffered from repeat split gears, Hornby loco where the crank pin had slipped out the back jamming the wheel, Accucraft loco that needed the gearbox stripping and cleaning out after running in as it was full of swarf (not dwarf! ), Two MMI K 27's where the inbuilt decoders were rubbish and subsequently binned plus rubbish pickups, Tillig locos with crap pickups and valve gear hitting the rods. On that basis this has been the quickest to solve Edited June 17, 2017 by PaulRhB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I am using the 12" radius 009 points. I will look at the solutions proposed to see if they help. But I would have expected Heljan to have identified and ironed out these problems rather than leaving their customers to find DIY solutions off the web. If you have a read of the instruction sheet Heljan state Minimum radius is 305mm which is 12" but they go onto add that the loco will run better on larger radii! This rather goes against all the pre - availability info which stated R2 which is around 10.5" was the Min radius but with care the loco would negotiate 9" radius. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 If you have a read of the instruction sheet Heljan state Minimum radius is 305mm which is 12" but they go onto add that the loco will run better on larger radii! This rather goes against all the pre - availability info which stated R2 which is around 10.5" was the Min radius but with care the loco would negotiate 9" radius. Even before we were told that the loco with care would negotiate 9" radius, I seem to recall that we were assured that it would run on 9" radius with no qualification. Forgive me if I feel a bit jittery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Over the years I've had a Bachmann std 4 tank where the motor burnt out within 2 minutes. Two Bachmann spectrum locos that suffered from repeat split gears, Hornby loco where the crank pin had slipped out the back jamming the wheel, Accucraft loco that needed the gearbox stripping and cleaning out after running in as it was full of dwarf, Two MMI K 27's where the inbuilt decoders were rubbish and subsequently binned plus rubbish pickups, That must have been messy : cleaning the dwarfs out of the gearbox...any survivors ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2017 That must have been messy : cleaning the dwarfs out of the gearbox...any survivors ?It's the advantage of G scale, plenty of room! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) It's the advantage of G scale, plenty of room! Now now Paul you are making me recall the OLD DAYS it was a pleasure to strip down a Mallet or a 2-10-2 or even install a decoder in a Yellow & Green White Pass Alco in the Kitchen, but I would not be too keen on doing the same with an L&B loco!! gscalemad ,co etc those were the days! Edited June 17, 2017 by Stevelewis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) As it only seems to be affecting a few You can't know that, Paul, as we are only seeing those that are owned by Forum Members and also only those who have actually run theirs which makes it an extremely small percentage of those sold. I don't want to get into a discussion on this, just pointing out that unless you speak to everyone who now owns and has run it there is no way of telling how widespread the issues are. As virtually everyone who has commented has the same main two issues so far (couplings and pick-ups) and who have tested theirs through points and round curves it could equally be said the it probably affects all of this batch... However let's wait and see, hopefully it will not be a major issue... Edited June 17, 2017 by Hobby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 You can't know that, Paul, as we are only seeing those that are owned by Forum Members and also only those who have actually run theirs which makes it an extremely small percentage of those sold. I don't want to get into a discussion on this, just pointing out that unless you speak to everyone who now owns and has run it there is no way of telling how widespread the issues are. As virtually everyone who has commented has the same main two issues so far (couplings and pick-ups) and who have tested theirs through points and round curves it could equally be said the it probably affects all of this batch... However let's wait and see, hopefully it will not be a major issue... It could affect more than those already delivered as Heljan advised me that ALL batch 1 were completed and the first 420 were being shipped to get things moving to PECO the remainder being shipped from Denmark direct to retailers over the coming weeks, If this proves to be correct we shall see Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Well, in my normal habit of swimming against thetide, I've not only kept my pre-order for the SR liveried 'Exe', but placed two preorders for 'Taw' and 'Yeo' in SR green . Judging by what is on here, I'll need to test the locos carefully though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 I had another ROCO loco delivered today ( H0e) as expected it runs impeccably doesnt derail on points and nothing has fallen off I have never had a problematic ROCO Loco in several years of buying them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) You can't know that, Paul, as we are only seeing those that are owned by Forum Members and also only those who have actually run theirs which makes it an extremely small percentage of those sold. I don't want to get into a discussion on this, just pointing out that unless you speak to everyone who now owns and has run it there is no way of telling how widespread the issues are. As virtually everyone who has commented has the same main two issues so far (couplings and pick-ups) and who have tested theirs through points and round curves it could equally be said the it probably affects all of this batch... However let's wait and see, hopefully it will not be a major issue... Blair, no I'm only going on the reports on the forums and there have been those that run well, only three so far have listed failures that I've seen Mine was checked over and did have some resistance on the pony so it lurched into 12" points although it didn't derail. I just don't see that we should look for doom n gloom every time and as I posted over on NGRM I've had worse faults with locos from Hornby, Bachmann, Accucraft, MMI, Tillig and even LGB, (various detail parts missing on an orange loco was a bit obvious). Note Steve had problems with Minitrains that most people consider the cream of HOe 009 So I avoid bashing the manufacturer for faults that MAY be not manifesting on the test model or in immediate quality control and I've offered fixes for two of the issues that anyone can attempt, if they feel confident, or they can return it to the shop and ask them to do it with the details supplied. Yes Heljan need to know but universally putting them down is more likely to provoke the response of why bother than maybe we can work with them and do even better So no I'm not going to stop offering fixes and no I'm not going to stop offering a balanced view I'm in discussion with Tillig, via one of the biggest German retailers, at the moment over their 2-10-2 and while I'm not particularly impressed with Tillig's progress I'm not going to start ranting in public if I can force a fix that benefits others ultimately. The shop is doing a great job and have repaid all costs so I'll be patient and hopefully benefit all future batches. Edited June 17, 2017 by PaulRhB 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 I have made another observation today with my 2 locos...........some may remember Graham Farish N Gauge Tender locos from the POOLE era ( ie before Bachmann bought them) many of the locos were fitted with tender brakes ooops sorry meant to say tender power pickups!! These had the effect of stopping the wheels rotating and seriously diminished haulage power of the locos, I used to attempt reducing the spring tension by bending them but in reality it was necessary to simply remove them. Whilst looking at one of my L&B running at track level I noticed that the rear pony wheels were not rotating and the front ones were rotating intermittently, tried the other loco exactly the same..... I checked the spring tension and found it was virtually impossible to reduce it further. This is probably the cause of the reduction of haulage power up gradients as opposed to running with ponies removed I reprted earlier in the thread.. I am seriously considering removing at least the rear pony pickup from 1 loco as a test it may invalidaet the warranty though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dorset Wanderer Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 This is becoming childish and not constructive Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 This is becoming childish and not constructive Steve Please clarify what you find is becoming childish and not constructive Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dorset Wanderer Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 This and other threads you are posting on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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