Administrators Phil Parker Posted June 17, 2017 Administrators Share Posted June 17, 2017 1 - The loco will not run over Peco 009 pointwork: it derails and shorts out. I've coaxed it over some points at s snail's pace, but at realistic speeds, it is hopeless. My Minitrains works engine (the Baldwin 2-6-2T) copes happily with my pointwork. I've reminded myself of the rave review in the April Railway Modeller, which said that Heljan and Peco had liaised to ensure the engine would run on Peco code 80 009 track. The reviewer also said that the couplings provided a "perfect match" to Peco rolling stock. Do these reviewers actually take the loco out of the box and try to run it on a proper layout with a train? I'd expect a proper critical review, not a mere advertising puff, misleading at that, for a manufacturer trying to flog an ill designed product. As mentioned months ago, I ran the pre-production model we had at Warley around Owen's Bridge which is built with Peco 009 set track and point. It ran perfectly well, albeit with a stupid looking overhang at the front. Unless the production models have changed a lot, I'd be surprised if the performance has got worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted June 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2017 This and other threads you are posting on Personally I consider Stevelewis has been nothing but fair and constructive. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2017 As Steve posted his issues I was able to look for them without risking my loco if it had the same fault so I'm grateful he gave detail rather than a rant Mind you I've corresponded with Steve for years as we both did G scale so maybe knowing he's a positive person I don't look for an issue, as you'll note we might appear to be at opposite viewpoints but aren't arguing I was talking to a friend today who used to work for one of the manufacturers who's been watching this thread and quite used to the vitriol and said at least with magazines people generally had time to reflect on a comment rather than it going public instantly I don't think we need to look for trouble between us, Blair and I have agreed to disagree on my support for Heljan and I've posted my reasons for it which some agree with and others don't. It shouldn't get any more heated than down the pub 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) Blair, no I'm only going on the reports on the forums and there have been those that run well, only three so far have listed failures that I've seen I said I wouldn't discuss but you seem to have ignored my point which is that we don't know how many are affected so you can't say that it is only affecting a few. You don't know that, neither do I. The number we see reported is a very small percentage of the number out there, so it could be true or it could be the other way... All I said is that you shouldn't make assumptions and it isn't a "balanced" view until you have the stats to prove it, which none of us have at the moment! Let's wait and see (and hope!)... Please, I am not knocking Heljan except to say that on a loco costing what it does I'd expect it to work correctly out of the box, hopefully the people concerned have just got the odd rogue model... What worries me is that we get these new locos, Manufactures don't do their preparation properly, and end up with a poor loco which then gets a bad reputation and doesn't sell and they give up on NG. So far they haven't produced what I'd like (except the Bemo L45H!) but I'd hate it if they stopped because they couldn't get it right and had poor sales... . Heljan were very brave with their choice of loco, I hope it succeeds... A 2-6-2T Hunslet next, Heljan, Russull or SLR85 will do, and even in 009 I'd buy it!! Edited June 18, 2017 by Hobby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 18, 2017 There aren't stats either way, I didn't ignore the point I just pointed out I'm basing it on the evidence only on the forums Mine was ok apart from the coupling which was easily fixed. I'm happy, I've provided a solution for the simple faults and balance can be an opinion, it's toy trains not science 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 18, 2017 Taking your Bemo example reminded me my Allegra had one coach missing the dark red band and a broken inter unit coupling, they supplied a spare body shell as I was prepared to fit it 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swsjames Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 I wonder, has anyone successfully run the Heljan 2-6-2T over Peco 12" 009 points without derailing? I'm coming to the depressing conclusion that I might need to replace all my points with the 18" radius ones - effectively consigning my layout to the bin and starting again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 18, 2017 Yes it's run over mine ok, turn the loco over and try sliding the truck sideways, see if it clicks or jams, if it does try the pickup fix I posted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 This afternoon I disabled the pickups of the REAR pony truck on Yeo, and the loco performed faultlessly for around 30 mins or so hauling 3 Roco +1 Minitrains bogie vehicles , I have not completed a continuous circuit yet it is about 75% complete so running on what is available gives me around 1,3/4 minutes running time and involves traversing 5 Peco 18" points.. Disabling the pickups did not involve removing them or taping them down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 19, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 19, 2017 Out of interest what did you do Steve? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Out of interest what did you do Steve? Just folded them over so they do not contact the wheels at all. I will try to have a run later this evening running bunker first!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mcowgill Posted June 19, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 19, 2017 An update on the derailment issues I reported. The pickups aren't the cause of the problem as with them temporarily taped up out of the way there is no side-to-side resistance so Steve's fix would be unlikely to resolve the derailments. However the points where I'm seeing the issue are all pre-2010 Peco 009 versions which are known to have a some issues, although these are mostly around the V crossing rather than the toe end of the blades where they regularly seem to ride up over the thin end of the blade. The locos were never intended to run on this small layout so I'm not that worried if others are getting good running on decent pointwork. I'll be hand building the pointwork for my L&B layout so if it doesn't run it will be my fault! Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I have to disagree slightly prior observations at eye level of both my locos showed me that the problem occurred prior to reaching the points, the pony truck (mostly the rear one) would derail when it transitioned from straight to curved track or vice versa but the loco would continue to run , when a point was reached the derailment would occur. I tried taping up the pickups with very thin white tape but the problem still occurred and when the tape was examined wheel rim marks were apparent indicating that there was insufficient clearance to leave an adequate gap. Also when I removed the pony trucks completely and ran the locos as 0-6-0s there were no problems at all. I have again tested the loco on which I folded up the rear pony pickups back on themselves so that they are completely clear of the wheel set and a got perfect derailment free running. I also laid a 12" radius point and found the loco would run over it without problem I hope to complete a continuous run on the layout soon so that I can run the loco for an extended period. to see how things go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 20, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2017 My loco running on the 12 inch Peco 'crazy track' points. Apart from tweaking the pony truck contacts to stop the flanges catching the sides of the wiper it's out of the box. 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiltedsignaller Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) My loco running on the 12 inch Peco 'crazy track' points. Apart from tweaking the pony truck contacts to stop the flanges catching the sides of the wiper it's out of the box. This looks superb, Paul! Very much looking forward to an email from Hattons... Edited June 20, 2017 by kiltedsignaller Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I see that A Yeo has turned up on eBay! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) Well to buck the trend, my Exe arrived today from the Bure Valley and has been running faultlessly through Kato Unitrack (got no layout at the moment) including points for several hours. Couldnt be happier with it Edited June 22, 2017 by Edge 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Well to buck the trend, my Exe arrived today from the Bure Valley and has been running faultlessly through Kato Unitrack (got no layout at the moment) including points for several hours. Couldnt be happier with it Interesting I ran my 2 initially on an N Gauge Unitrack layout with scissors no6 & No 4 points & a diamond xing without problems, they started when I used my own 009 layout ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Emery Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I read that Heljan are increasing the price to £209 per loco. That's a lot of money for a model with 'issues'. Have cancelled my three pre-orders, and must learn to live without them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) Well that's your loss as only three so far reported have had serious issues, the rest are easily fixed as my posts. Steve's had the worst luck and he's more positive Still on the bright side someone else will get them at the lower price Edited June 23, 2017 by PaulRhB 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 I read that Heljan are increasing the price to £209 per loco. That's a lot of money for a model with 'issues'. Have cancelled my three pre-orders, and must learn to live without them. The RRP was increase many weeks if not months ago when the additional variant were announced, consider that 4.5 years has elapsed since the initial announcement and what has occurred in the financial world since then, Although I have had problems I have not given up on the 2-6-2T, by returning them the manfr. will be able to see the actual probs with the valve gear I experienced. I have purchased many Heljan products in 00 & 0 gauges over many years and experienced very few problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Even with the price increase from Heljan my 'Yeo' in SR on pre order has reached £178. And that already seems to be the going rate for the few people that have the first batch left Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Emery Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Still on the bright side someone else will get them at the lower price How? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) How? Those who pre ordered and have yet to receive their models, several outlets have agreed to honour pre order prices Edited June 23, 2017 by Stevelewis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) How? Unless you meant you'd ordered from the second raft, but they were already advertised at the higher price so I assumed you meant you'd cancelled a pre order for batch 1 where the price hasn't been hiked, so because they were sold out at some places so someone will get your cancelled ones at the first batch price not the higher rate for the next versions. If the shop you pre ordered from raised the price on the first batch then they are having you on as I've been assured that Hattons aren't and my local shop has said the first batch prices were honoured only the next liveries are more. Edited June 23, 2017 by PaulRhB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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