Lynton & Barnstaple OO9 Loco from Heljan

[PaulRhB]

 with apologies to Mod4

 

Edited June 23, 2017 by PaulRhB

[Stevelewis]

Not  only  angry  but  disappointed  that  so much  modelling  time  has been  lost  I reckon  that  I  hardly  touched  my  in progress  009 shed  layout  for  around  10 days as  I  was  messing  around  with  the 2 locos  and  their  faults  , I have  around  10  yards  of  track  to  lay  to  complete the  main track  work, 3  or  4  boxes  of  trees  to  plant  an numerous  other odd  bits  to do.

 

I should  have been  able to  unpack  the  2  L&B locos  when  delivered  test  them  and  they should  have  worked as  expected,  but  they  didn't.

 

I  quite  fancy a  Fourdees  Beddgelert!

Edited June 23, 2017 by Stevelewis

[Nile]

They are

 

I  quite  fancy a  Fourdees  Beddgelert!

 

They are not without problems. The Farish chassis they use can be a bit variable in quality.

[PaulRhB]

Funnily enough it's the contacts in those that play up too!

[Stevelewis]

They are

 

 

They are not without problems. The Farish chassis they use can be a bit variable in quality.

 

Which  Farish  chassis  are  they  using  now   is  it  the  08?,  I  must  admit  as  an  N  gauge  modeller (since  before Poole  Farish  started  production) I appreciate there may  be  problems  but  I have   experienced  no  major  problems  with  Bachmann produced  Farish

 

Re  the  Beddgelert..  Fordees  have  advised  me  it  is  still in development  as  they  are  have  slight  problems making  it  negotiated 9" rad  curves as its  length & overhang is  causing  the  bogie to foul the  sides but  a  small batch should be   ready  by the   end of  the  year.

 

Nice  to see  a manufacturer openly providing   this  sort  of  information

Edited June 23, 2017 by Stevelewis

[Andrew Emery]

Unless you meant you'd ordered from the second raft, but they were already advertised at the higher price so I assumed you meant you'd cancelled a pre order for batch 1 where the price hasn't been hiked, so because they were sold out at some places so someone will get your cancelled ones at the first batch price not the higher rate for the next versions.

If the shop you pre ordered from raised the price on the first batch then they are having you on as I've been assured that Hattons aren't and my local shop has said the first batch prices were honoured only the next liveries are more.

You assume wrong.

[PaulRhB]

So you ordered the second batch then?

In which case the price hasn't risen since it was announced so where's the price hike?

[mcowgill]

It's a while since I reported on my wayward Yeo but knowing that Exe was also on it's way from the Bure Valley Railway (bet you didn't know they had a strategic reserve of 2' gauge locos there   ) I wanted to see how that fared.

 

The assumption that my little tramway layout's ancient Peco points might be at fault has also been tested now and I can give an update.

 

Exe has no discernible side-to-side snagging on the pony trucks so the pickups don't seem to be causing a problem, but it still spends most of it's time dropping the leading wheels onto the ballast on the layout.

 

I've set up a little test track on the dining table with newer design Peco mainline and 12" points including a reverse curve through the points and curves straight onto the points in attempt to give the locos something of an assault course.  I'm pleased to report that both locos passed with flying colours, both only managed one chimney end truck derailment each after 10 minutes of shuttling backwards and forwards at all sorts of speeds, both on the mainline points from the heel end off a sharp bend (Roco setrack) onto the point, coming off between the crossing and the point blades, an odd place to derail - at the moment I'm blaming the point being uneven as the power was connected to the toe end of that point.

 

So they look to be running fine on decent track and I'm now a happy owner.  

 

Martin

[Stevelewis]

Niced  to  hear   your  report  Martin

 

My 2  are  now  in  the  hands  of  the  retailer,  for  onward  despatch  to  Heljan!

 

I have  not  yet  decided  whether  I will accept  replacements  when  his  next  delivery  arrives.

 

I am  not  certain  that  the  pony  problems are  caused  by  the  pickups  snagging, I rather  feel  that  the  problem  was  caused  by  the ponies  being limited  in    their  swinging  movement due  to  excessive  springing,   I took  a  lot  of  time  in  observing  the  locos  running  at  eye level  and  I  actually observed  this occurring  on  transition  from  straight  to  curved  track  with  transition  curves,  this  did not  cause  derailment  at  the  location it   occurred  but  when  the  loco  reached  a point  as  the  pony hit parts  of  the point.

 

I proved  that  by disabling  the  spring   pickups  by  folding   them out  of  position   so  the  wheels  made  no  contact with   them  the  locos  ran  perfectly well  with  no derailing,

 

I would  have  removed  the  spring  pickups  permanently,  BUT  the 2  locos   both   had  failed   valve  gear parts  which  was  my  reason  for  their  return,  I  know  of  at  least  3  other  owners who have  returned  locos  due  to  valve gear  problems.

 

So   for  the  immediate  future  running sessions  will have  to  use  alternative   motive  power!!

Edited June 23, 2017 by Stevelewis

[PaulRhB]

Might have some good news for you tomorrow Steve as we did some extensive tests tonight after Yeo derailed repeatedly on the Clyre Valley. We found a fix and it's simple more tomorrow as I need sleep

The R&D team return to Lynmouth



Yeo at work

Edited July 1, 2017 by PaulRhB

[Andrew Emery]

So you ordered the second batch then?

In which case the price hasn't risen since it was announced so where's the price hike?

Hattons announced the RRP rise 24hrs ago. You don't know everything, it would seem. The rest of us have been enjoying an exchange of useful information, but if you have nothing useful to bring to the discussion other than to be argumentative, probably best that you refrain from posting.

[PaulRhB]

Andrew I wasn't being argumentative but I have had no communication about a price rise on my pre orders, quite the contrary they have twice assured us that we won't pay more so you know something extra?

Your posts haven't included any reference to an email or announcement so far apart from mentioning a price rise we thought was common knowledge on the second batch but not the first. As for providing something useful to the thread I can only suggest you look back through my postings over the last few pages on fixing issues and see if any of the findings might be useful if you had kept the order.

On the last page Steve also mentioned what I said about price rises.

 

I read that Heljan are increasing the price to £209 per loco. That's a lot of money for a model with 'issues'. Have cancelled my three pre-orders, and must learn to live without them.

Where did you read about the £209 price rise please? Edited June 23, 2017 by PaulRhB

[Andrew Emery]

Andrew I wasn't being argumentative but I have had no communication about a price rise on my pre orders, quite the contrary they have twice assured us that we won't pay more so you know something extra?

Your posts haven't included any reference to an email or announcement so far apart from mentioning a price rise we thought was common knowledge on the second batch but not the first. As for providing something useful to the thread I can only suggest you look back through my postings over the last few pages on fixing issues and see if any of the findings might be useful if you had kept the order.

Thank you for your reply. To assist, let me share with you that Hattons have sent an email to, Presumably, all of us who pre-ordered the Second Batch intermediate liveried loco - I had three on order - stating that the RRP had risen to £209, but that Hattons wouls sell them for (I think) £178. As the original forecast price had been £160, even this was therefore an increase; £54 to me.

 

I would have liked three Manning Wardles, but with good r-t-r locos on the matket for just over £100, and uncertainty - lets call it uncertainty - regarding Heljan's quality control, they are a lot less attractive now for those of us not actually modelling the L&BR. Hence my sharing of the RRP £209 news, which was intended to be helpful, not (surprisingly) conroversial....

[PaulRhB]

Andrew thanks that clears it up yours was the second batch.

As Steve's post below I'm afraid the price hike on the second batch of the extra liveries was announced some time ago so if Hattons have only just informed you it's a bit slow on their part.

The first batch has arrived in two lots and only half have got to the shops. They are honouring the price on those initial liveries 9950, 51 & 52 due in July but not on the batch due later in the year with the liveries to complete both sets and the intermediate one.

Search around and there are shops with the initial batch still available at lower prices. Try Bure Valley Rly as mentioned above.

The RRP was increase many weeks if not months ago when the additional variant were announced, consider that 4.5 years has elapsed since the initial announcement and what has occurred in the financial world since then,

Although I have had problems I have not given up on the 2-6-2T, by returning them the manfr. will be able to see the actual probs with the valve gear I experienced.

I have purchased many Heljan products in 00 & 0 gauges over many years and experienced very few problems.

Edited June 23, 2017 by PaulRhB

[PaulRhB]

Ok so we found a few things last night so I'll take you through what Tim and I found, exasperated over and tried out!

Clyre Valley uses the Peco Mainline points and track so you'd think it'd be at home in large radius points?

 

First issue was the small pips on the point slide bar catching randomly on the cylinder covers so they were nipped down, they didn't cause a derailment but you noticed them clonk on them occasionally.

 

Now we were getting random derailments across the layout passing either way through points and when you went back through it would behave a few times but still obviously hit the blades or frog.

We noticed that the coupling was randomly lurching to the right even on straights especially at the front and wondered if the short pony was causing this sharp attack angle.

 

So we dropped off a pony truck to look.

Now there's a central beam and the wheels run in a brass tube bush with two large black plastic washers as spacers then two very thin ones.

 

But we found that the wheel could slop sideways which was causing an even sharper angle of attack to the track and why the coupling was lurching sideways.

 

So we thought at first it was hitting the open side of the blades and checked the back to backs

 

No problem there as others have found but the wheel should enter the tips or frog like this

 

But it's actually doing this randomly

 

 

So first thought was to secure it straight in the pony with some araldite, if our fix doesn't solve your problems then that may well be worth trying next. I still believe the pickups contribute too so I'd sort them first then our little fix.

The wheel is hitting either the end of check rails or the tip of the closed blade because of the sharp angle and bumping off.

 

We didn't have araldite to hand so I reassembled Yeo and suddenly we couldn't get her to derail!

 

Tim said what's different?

 

The only thing I'd done was tighten up the bogie screw then slack it off a full turn to try and give it more lateral movement and while not stopping the axle slop to the side and providing the sharp angle it now had enough movement to bounce to the side and twist down rather than being held up and riding over.

 

It's not a ground breaker but I think a combination of the way our track moves as the glue soaks in means we get lots of little lumps and bumps not found on track on a true flat fresh board. Add to that the pickups providing additional forces, a sloppy axle and restricted twist on the pivot and randomly it hits and rides over. It's not a guaranteed one solution but a few tweaks and she ran consistently without derailing as it glides smoothly along.

 

We also inspected Tims failed valve gear where the slide bars had come adrift and noted the main crank pin, on driver with both connecting and coupling rods, was at a nearly 20° angle and no doubt was part of the major failure but we can't tell if this was the cause or part of the result. Worth checking on a new model though.

 

Well I hope our fix works for others so please try it and report back either way

Edited July 8, 2017 by PaulRhB

[Compound2632]

Might have some good news for you tomorrow Steve as we did some extensive tests tonight after Yeo derailed repeatedly on the Clyre Valley. We found a fix and it's simple more tomorrow as I need sleep

 

The R&D team return to Lynmouth

 

 

 

 

 

The pressing question of the day is: where did you get your minions?

[PaulRhB]

The pressing question of the day is: where did you get your minions?

 Al that effort and it's the Minions they are interested in

 

Search for Minion Battle Pods

[PaulRhB]

A trip up the Clyre Valley courtesy of Tim C

Buckland Newton

 

 

 

 

 

 

Approaching Buckland Newton

[Stevelewis]

I  had  an  email  today  from an eBay seller  with  whom I have  dealt  to purchase  some very nice   L&B related   detail  parts  (a1036) we  have  been conversing  re  the  locos,  he  advised me  that  his  loco  was  tested  for  the  first  time  this week  and  has  now  been  returned to  retailer  as  the  valve   gear  came  apart...., yesterday  one  of   his   friends  brought  another  L&B  Loco to  run  on his  layout  and  the  valve  gear  on  that  one  also  failed  after a  short period  of  running.

 

a1036  ( Paul)  asked  me to pass on  this  info.

 

There  are  some  pics  on  his  eBay  listings  showing  the  actual  loco  which  failed ( before  it  was  tested)

[Stevelewis]

If  anyone   is  desperate  to  get  one  there  is  one  on  eBay  today  its  only  £250!        A  Bargepole  comes  to  mind!

[swsjames]

Ok so we found a few things last night so I'll take you through what Tim and I found, exasperated over and tried out!

Clyre Valley uses the Peco Mainline points and track so you'd think it'd be at home in large radius points

 

A great improvement. I tried this fix - slackening the bolt retaining the pony trucks, and it seems to have helped

greatly in two ways:

 

1 - Yeo is now much better at negotiating 12" Peco points

 

2 - I have a problem on the transition from level track to a gradient. The pony trucks were lifting the driving wheels off the track so they just spun without moving the train. Slackening the pony truck bolts has virtually cured this

problem too.

 

I am marginally more optimistic that I might even get my L&B layout working.

 

[trollyman185]

HI my two have bogie problems & broken valve gear. I am waiting to hear the fate of my loco's. I have to ask why in this day & age does the loco need all the spacing washers. (See Steve Lewis Photo). The other niggle is why two drive points. The centre driver has per most traditional locomotives should be good enough. Why does it need the rear wheelset to be powered has well. I believe its the rear gear loosing contact with its drive gear that causes the valve gear to break. I too am thinking why did I venture into 009. I did it because I love the Lynton & Barnstaple. Perhaps someone will save the day & bring it out in O gauge to run on 00 track. MH.

[PaulRhB]

As the valve gear is all off one crank the drive gear arrangement can't cause that to fail. If there are gears and coupling rods the gear slipping might buckle the coupling rod but not the valve gear.

Tims crank pin was bent but there wasn't any evidence of the crank itself being bent. It looked on his that the slide bars had come loose jamming the valve gear causing the jam.

Edited July 2, 2017 by PaulRhB

[bertiedog]

Still no supplies, no news, nothing, it all seems to have fallen into a Hornby W4 style limbo, with reports that first batches have sold out, and gone now, so where are we left?  Heljan are responsible for the messy deliveries, and seem not to have organised supplying the orders in rotation.

It may force re-order of later versions at higher prices as well, but it is not the price that is worrying, it is the sold out and gone from the shops indicators that are worrying.

It leaves little choice as to the livery as if one turns up you are forced to take it in case there are no more in the pipeline.

A friend took delivery of one and the bogies issue is curable with new bearings, very simple to do.

Just a pity that Heljan cannot get their game together and deliver what was promised, on time, when they say it is available.

Stephen

[olivegreen]

Good grief - it's only a model engine not a major disaster, however irritating the delays might be! 

Edited July 17, 2017 by olivegreen