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James

An Approach to Modelling Class 25s - Springy Bits!

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Following on from here -

The start of something new -

 

attachicon.gifDSCF6046.JPG

 

Introduction on my blog.

This is what I'm aiming for - http://www.derbysulzers.com/5176harrogate.jpg A nice typical early/mid sixties type 2 with nothing out of the ordinary. As something for a demonstartion I hope it'll be of interest tio people. Incidentally, I've wondered about leaving it unpainted, given its mixed-media approach. What do you think about this? Would this be useful if you were considering a similar conversion yourself?

 

A very poor photo as it's very dark here for mid afternoon - actually it's just miserable! When we get some nicer weather I'll take some more, hopefully a little further along.

 

post-125-0-26945800-1360597980.jpg

 

There chassis is beginning to take take and the modifications to the cabs have started to make a difference - lower bodyside additions (as the lower edge is anything but straight!). Plenty to do yet and I have a pack of Penbits stuff for the bogies!

 

The full background can be found on my blog, along with a list of useful links and sources.

Edited by James
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Would be very interesting to see James. Out of interest, have you seen/used the brassmasters replacement cab roof for the class 25?

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Plenty to do yet and I have a pack of Penbits stuff for the bogies!

 

 

 

I've got my Penbits Class 25 bogies assembled, just need blackening then the cosmetic side frames adding. It is a fantastic kit, the etches are superb and a lot of thought has gone into the method of construction. The instructions are something else - virtually a photo and text for every fold. I love the way you can strengthen the folds with solder from the outside of the fold. You're going to enjoy building these!

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The light's a little better today!

 

Still looking a little rough at this stage but we're getting there!

 

post-125-0-97034600-1360678026_thumb.jpg

 

post-125-0-07374900-1360677825_thumb.jpg

Would be very interesting to see James. Out of interest, have you seen/used the brassmasters replacement cab roof for the class 25?

 

I'll be using Brassmasters parts for the underframe but the body parts are sized/shaped for the Bachmann body - though you might be able to cut the headcode boxes out for use with a Hornby body.

 

That looks like the one in the picture already James!

 

Another interesting conversion/detail project which I am looking forward to following.

At the moent the more I do the less it looks like the photo!
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What are your plans to replicate the headlights? Thats where mine got stuck, deciding how to do them.

 

Regards

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I've got my Penbits Class 25 bogies assembled, just need blackening then the cosmetic side frames adding. It is a fantastic kit, the etches are superb and a lot of thought has gone into the method of construction. The instructions are something else - virtually a photo and text for every fold. I love the way you can strengthen the folds with solder from the outside of the fold. You're going to enjoy building these!

I have a week's leave coming up so hopefully I'll be able to spend some time on them then :) Really looking forward to that bit!

 

 

What are your plans to replicate the headlights? Thats where mine got stuck, deciding how to do them.

I'm using a combination of plastic tube and brass tube - hopefully it'll become clear later!

 

Edited for spelling!

Edited by James

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Last night I managed to do a little bit of work after we'd finished pancakes and stories of a green engine called Henry.

 

post-125-0-25995000-1360755874.jpg

 

One thing you notice when you start looking at the 25s in detail is that those without the valance have a lower body side which is anything but level! There are so many different levels it's hard to keep track! So much so I'd say that unless you have good photos of both sides of your chosen loco it'll only ever be a good educated guess! The Hornby body seems lacking in the lower regions of the cab when compared with a number of drawings, so the lower edge of the cab has been extented. This may explain why the buffers are far too high even when the loco has been lowered as they may be correct in relation to other parts of the cab front on the original Hornby model.

 

post-125-0-54133500-1360755745.jpg

 

I've blatently copied Jim S-W's method of modelling the underframe - I've added bracing above the main H sections in the form of 2mm square section form Evengreen which greatly adds to the rigidity of the structure. Most of the work, aside from this additional bracing, is best carried out with the two section fixed in place on the chassis block. This'll ensure that it'll actually fit on the model!

 

post-125-0-91797000-1360755813.jpg

 

I'm not planning to go much further with the underframe for now until I can test fit the rebuilt bogies, just incase any modifications are required and as I expect a fair bit of extra handling might result from this process.

 

Anyway, the big train set's calling...

Edited by James
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MMMMMMmmm!

Very nice project James.

And the use of the Penbits bogies is especially interesting.

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Hello first post on the forum (I shall have to introduce myself at some point!).

 

Also Interested to see how this progresses.  I am doing a similar conversion at the moment and my package of Penbits bits are in the post (to add to the various Brassmasters and Shawplan/EE parts I have stockpiled).  Pete Johnson was kind enough to exchange a few emails on this topic with me last year and I have just ordered a back issue of the relevant RE with his article in it.

 

I am using a model from my modelling youth that spent the best part of 25 years in a box and it is very much something I'm pursuing out of nostalgia (as well as it being a nice little modelling project).

 

You have given me pause for thought around some further additions to the bottom of cab front that I need to make.  Perusing David Clarke's Class 24/25 book last night also indicated that there is more to the lower body sides than a casual glance would suggest.

 

One area I am in the process of tackling are the mods to the roof panels and various exhaust ports.  I have made a start on this and have fitted Brian Hanson's rather nice replacement fan grille but still have quite a bit to do elsewhere.  I would be interested in seeing some better reference photographs (I have been relying on Brian Daniel's site and only have my own photos of a different Cl. 25 variant to the one I’m modelling taken while at Grosmont last year). So I’d be interested in seeing how you tackle that.

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Some good work so far James.

 

One thing that is puzzling me, (and I know I'm not the best at recognising inaccuracies - I tend to base my work around what others have noticed is wrong with current models), but what are the faults/inaccuracies with the Bachmann models?

 

I'm sure there will have been discussion elsewhere, but they seem to look ok to me?

 

Just a genuine question and not an attempt to divert from your excellent work James.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

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Interesting project, James. 

 

Nice to see the old Hornby 25 again, one of my favourites. I bought one when they were first released and bought several more during the 1980s, always ran really smoothly.

 

Here's a pic of D5178 on one of my old Ian Futers inspired layouts built back in the day.

 

post-7898-0-58640700-1360782591_thumb.jpg

 

Mal

 

 

 

 

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Hi Sean

 

A bit on the faults is included in my article. See http://www.p4newstreet.com/articlePDFs/25%20article.pdf

 

Hth

 

Jim

Thanks Jim.

 

Yes, I see from your article that there are many differences in the body types although I don't know the locomotives well enough to to be able to comment myself so I'll bow down to yours and James' more informed views.

 

I have seen the Brassmasters resin mouldings recently and assume that these would be a good way to go with the later body style?

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

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Great stuff James,

Will watch with interest. I've got a 24/1 Hornmann hybrid on the go- can swap notes.

Neil

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Hi James,

Looking good mate, can I ask what size H section you have used or even the Evergreen part number.

 

Thanks, Cheers Peter.

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Hi James,

 

Your progress is looking excellent, will be watching with interest as I would like to do a class 25 at some point.

 

Cheers

 

Simon

 

PS got a Hornby class 31 which I think will receive a Lima class 31 body in the near future after seeing the work of yourself and Jim SW.

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I'm rather pleased with the positive reaction this thread has received! I always enjoy seeing positive reaction to actually 'modelling' diesels, rather than just accepting things as they are.

 

I've previously started a similar Class 24 conversion (minus the running gear modifications as it's a model intended for my Dad's 00 layout) - oddly I don't think I've ever had a thread or even posted about it on here. It has been detailed on my blog and it provided a further method of combining Hornby and Bachmann parts aswell as Craftsmann cab roof castings - these needed a surprising amount of reprofiling.

 

You may also notice that the beading at the edge of the roof panels has been replaced - as it comes it's in the wrong place, higher up so it misses the shoulder grilles as per a 25/3! Of course, these aren't present on a class 24! I suspect, this is a hangover from the original design work of the models - it goes back to Mainline days as far as I know. Even if you think all this work to correct what is to some a minor error with the cab fronts, this particular work is very much worthwhile on the Bachmann models which aren't 25/3s!

DSCF2217.jpg

Only a small photo as I'm not at home so can't access the original file. But you can hopefully see the Bachmann body has been mostly retained and only the cabs have been replaced. This is where looking closely at your chosen prototype is very worthwhile - for all but the 25/3 Bachmann have modelled the earlier style of grilles which stand proud of the body side, whereas later grilles were much closer to the bodyside. In the case of the Class 24, the Bachmann model has the right grilles, only the cabs are less than ideal. Though it was here that I first realised that Hornby cabs lacked depth where I reprofiled the cabs' lower edges to match the moulded valance of the Bachmann model. The 25/3, well, requires a little more work to get the right result - oddly I've never attemped a 25/3 aside from buying an unbuilt DJH kit second hand, but this too is not without its own issues. But it's the only one mentioned here which has done anything to represent the 'bits' below what we regard as the bottom of the bodysides.

 

There's a bit more on the Class 24 conversion and also the twenty five, though to be fair in this latter case it's the same stuff with different comments after it!

 

Clicky

 

I certainly wouldn't claim to be anything of an expert on the locos, I just know where to look! :D

 

I'm sorry I've not replied to each comment (I'm typing between trains!), but if you're doing a similar conversion, please do post about it! After all, it can only add to what I'm doing. :)

Edited by James
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can I ask what size H section you have used or even the Evergreen part number.

 

It's Evergreeen's 2mm 'H' Section - the 2mm square section matches perfectly for bracing work :)

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Just to whet your appetite a bit further with regard to the Penbits sprung bogies I’ve attached a few photos showing the current state of mine.

 

 

post-432-0-61909500-1360927740.jpg

 

post-432-0-66323200-1360927751.jpg

 

post-432-0-01485800-1360927762.jpg

 

post-432-0-69999400-1360927771.jpg

 

post-432-0-99279100-1360927774.jpg

 

post-432-0-54387200-1360927781.jpg

 

 

The two photos below show the bogies attached to the chassis but minus the Bachmann bogie drive units so that they can be tested for free running prior to final assembly. I’m pleased to say they glided serenely through the newly laid pointwork on my layout! Even just pushing them along by hand you get a sense of the mechanical detachment between the loco and the wheels that springing provides.

 

post-432-0-92539000-1360927789.jpg

 

post-432-0-05016300-1360927800.jpg

 

 

Now, onto bodywork matters and I’ve got to say JSW and yourself are bad men in this department!

 

I was originally going to content myself with a quick detailing job on the Bachmann body but after reading all the above I can see this is not going to be good enough and a full cut & shut job is required – more work! My problem is that I want to model a 25/3 which Hornby didn’t produce and the Silver Fox bodies just don’t seem to be available anymore. I was looking at one of my old Hornby models last night to see if it could be modified to a 25/3 i.e. with the deep centre window which it probably could but whilst doing this I noticed that the area where the headcode box blends into the roof isn’t right, the “ears” at the side of the box extend right to the edge of the body which studying photos suggests is wrong. Looking at the photos of your model you seem to have corrected this – was it just a case of a bit of filing/sanding?

 

Hopefully I’ll catch up with you at Scalefour North to discuss at length!

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One area I am in the process of tackling are the mods to the roof panels and various exhaust ports.  I have made a start on this and have fitted Brian Hanson's rather nice replacement fan grille but still have quite a bit to do elsewhere.  I would be interested in seeing some better reference photographs (I have been relying on Brian Daniel's site and only have my own photos of a different Cl. 25 variant to the one I’m modelling taken while at Grosmont last year). So I’d be interested in seeing how you tackle that.

As I've chosen an earlier period model, there's less to do with the roof - it had, as far as I can tell, the earlier style of exhaust at that point. However, I'll se what stuff I have connected with the Class 24 - I remember making some notes/diagrams at the time. 

 

Here's a pic of D5178 on one of my old Ian Futers inspired layouts built back in the day.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gifimg170.jpg

 

That looks lovely! I think it's the glazing which really sets it off! :)

 

Not a great picture and only joined in paintbrush but the pic below shows the side layout.

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/simon_br_blue/D5185side_zps0c0dce1d.jpg

This shows perfectly the variations on level along the lower edge of the body side! :D

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The two photos below show the bogies attached to the chassis but minus the Bachmann bogie drive units so that they can be tested for free running prior to final assembly. I’m pleased to say they glided serenely through the newly laid pointwork on my layout! Even just pushing them along by hand you get a sense of the mechanical detachment between the loco and the wheels that springing provides.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gifRSCN2750.JPG

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gifRSCN2751.JPG

 

That looks superb Mike! I really want to get on with mine now! I'm looking forward to trying it out too!

 

Now, onto bodywork matters and I’ve got to say JSW and yourself are bad men in this department!

Bad men?! :lol: Been called worse though! :D

 

I was originally going to content myself with a quick detailing job on the Bachmann body but after reading all the above I can see this is not going to be good enough and a full cut & shut job is required – more work! My problem is that I want to model a 25/3 which Hornby didn’t produce and the Silver Fox bodies just don’t seem to be available anymore. I was looking at one of my old Hornby models last night to see if it could be modified to a 25/3 i.e. with the deep centre window which it probably could but whilst doing this I noticed that the area where the headcode box blends into the roof isn’t right, the “ears” at the side of the box extend right to the edge of the body which studying photos suggests is wrong. Looking at the photos of your model you seem to have corrected this – was it just a case of a bit of filing/sanding?

 

Hopefully I’ll catch up with you at Scalefour North to discuss at length!

If you have a copy of this edition of REx, Peter Johnson covers in it some detail -

 

http://www.classicmagazines.co.uk/issue/View/issue/RE200411

 

You could either use the whole body or, as Jim did, just add new cabs to the Bachmann body section. This way you retain the secure method of attachment too.

 

Around the headcode box I just gently smoothed the area around the 'ears' - not difficult but you need to take care so you don't go too far!

 

It seems , from recent correspondance, a few people want to talk to me about twenty-fives at Scalefour North! I think I've fooled people into think I know what I'm talking about! But Mike, you'll have to bring the loco with you!

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Sorry to hi-jack the thread James, but I have to ask Mike about the sprung Penbits bogies.

 

You obviously feel they were worth the extra effort? Did you have any problems in assembly, anything that might be considered tricky?

 

Fabulous project.

 

Mike

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Sorry to hi-jack the thread James, but I have to ask Mike about the sprung Penbits bogies.

 

You obviously feel they were worth the extra effort? Did you have any problems in assembly, anything that might be considered tricky?

 

Fabulous project.

 

Mike

 

No problems at all. As long as you can fold bits of brass and solder it's simples. As I said earlier the instructions are something else. They are supplied on a disc, though you can download them direct from the web site without making the purchase if you want. I decided to print them out, as the thought of a lap top, a hot soldring iron and a bottle of flux all next to each other with me in charge didn't seem a good idea! 50 odd pages of A4 later.....!. They really do show just about every fold. It's taken me about 10 hours of work to get to this stage in a number of sessions but them I am a slow worker and with it being the first one I took my time and checked everything as I went along.

The only thing that threw me on reading the notes was the reference to a need for a 2.1mm drill bit, but Eileeens soon took care of that! The only other thing to bear in mind is that because of the modifications needed to the Bachmann drive units and sideframes there's no going back.

Nope, fantastic kit, I'll be gettig one for the Class 37 next.

Right apologies James you can have your thread back now!

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