Morris Cowley car trains

[TheSignalEngineer]

Hymeks seemed quite uncommon when I was spotting at Snow Hill. I only remember a couple, one of which was on a footex from London. I actually saw more on the Midland line through Camp Hill and at New St after Snow Hill closed.

Edited February 26, 2013 by TheSignalEngineer

[Michael Delamar]

that is why im thinking it may have been the very late 60s early 70s.

 

North Mersey goods closed 1968, however Ive seen other reports saying 1973. what I think that means is the route from Wigan went in 68, however the yard could still be reached via the lnwr Bootle branch from Edge hill unitl 73

 

the pilotman was an Edge hill man around this time and Mike said he told him he piloted the train in the Edge hill area. again ill need to ask him when I see him.

so Im guessing it didnt go the route via Wigan which was the normal, it may have went via Runcorn.

 

whats strange is that the L&Y North Mersey branch is one ive researched over many years. its like my Waverley or S&D, and ive seen 1 or 2 mentions of the Cowley goods trains but only recentley noticed it was a car train, before I thought it was a normal goods train. Ive got shots of the line and yard but never seen any of car trains, but Ive always had an interest in car trains and any excuse to model one is very interesting to me.

 

and an excuse for Evening star in filthy condition too

[Rugd1022]

Hymeks seemed quite uncommon when I was spotting at Snow Hill. I only remember a couple, one of which was on a footex from London. I actually saw more on the Midland line through Camp Hill and at New St after Snow Hill closed.

 

There is colour cine footage of Hymeks in green at Snow Hill c1963 / 64 in one of the recent Hydraulic DVDs, I've not watched them for a while though so forget which one it's in. With Stourbridge Junction men signing them though it's a fair bet that they would have turned up on engineering turns during the night when no-one was around armed with a camera, in the same way that not many photos of NBL Warships exist showing them in their 'Bescot allocation' period, despite them working several booked turns bewtween Banbury and Crewe.

 

One day, when all of us RMWebbers are long gone, an 'e-book' will appear from the ether festooned with such gems, purloined from deceased enthusiast's collections and dusty lofts....!

Edited February 26, 2013 by Rugd1022

[Michael Delamar]

some snippets of interesting info from Mike T's thread linked to earlier..

 

"I don't know of this move, but it's entirely credible. Oxford men

would go anywhere with pilot drivers, and it was Western Region

practise to put a hydraulic on one-off inter-regional freight trains

where they could, in order to make sure they got the loco back (this

had a lot to do with the inter-regional loco balance)"

 

 

"saw Hymeks and Westerns at places where they were not "meant to be" in the

late 60s/ early 1970s. Northampton, Leicester and Crewe for example. However

this does ring some bells for me. There were car trains from Cowley and also

some from Abingdon at that time. The Hymek seen by me at Crewe was D7024 in

summer 1969 on a train of Morris 1100s. The loco was taken off and replaced

by a class 40"

 

"Normally the WR power came off at Saltley where LMR power took over"

[jonhall]

Many thanks to Jon for the Transport Age scans - very interesting. Do you have Private Sidings 1 and 2?

 

.

 

I may have - I went a bit mad on ebay about a month ago when I discovered some by it now listed issues at 3.99 each inc p&p - which seemed quite reasonable as I was agreeing to buy.. before I knew it I'd agreed to by 22 of them!! but I still have gaps in the collection if anyone has copies they can bear to part with,.

 

Jon

[TheSignalEngineer]

 

 

and an excuse for Evening star in filthy condition too

When I saw it on the cars it was immaculate, almost as clean as now it's stuffed and mounted.

[TheSignalEngineer]

There is colour cine footage of Hymeks in green at Snow Hill c1963 / 64 in one of the recent Hydraulic DVDs, I've not watched them for a while though so forget which one it's in. With Stourbridge Junction men signing them though it's a fair bet that they would have turned up on engineering turns during the night when no-one was around armed with a camera, in the same way that not many photos of NBL Warships exist showing them in their 'Bescot allocation' period, despite them working several booked turns bewtween Banbury and Crewe.

 

One day, when all of us RMWebbers are long gone, an 'e-book' will appear from the ether festooned with such gems, purloined from deceased enthusiast's collections and dusty lofts....!

Did Stourbridge men sign Hymeks before the through workings at Snow Hill stopped in 1967? Most freight through Snow Hill and loco hauled passenger via the STX line was steam hauled to the end.

 

The footex would have been about 1964 or 1965. Another made it through from Swansea to Witton on a footex in 1964, but via Bromsgrove. The same day a Blue Pullman set did the same trip, SixBellsJunction has a picture of it being banked up Lickey by pannier 8415.

[Michael Delamar]

thats interesting signal engineer, ive found the pic of the pullman, will post it in the Bachmann blue pullman thread.

 

regards Evening star, just as nice if it was kept clean.

[Guest Phil]

There is colour cine footage of Hymeks in green at Snow Hill c1963 / 64 in one of the recent Hydraulic DVDs, I've not watched them for a while though so forget which one it's in. With Stourbridge Junction men signing them though it's a fair bet that they would have turned up on engineering turns during the night when no-one was around armed with a camera, in the same way that not many photos of NBL Warships exist showing them in their 'Bescot allocation' period, despite them working several booked turns bewtween Banbury and Crewe.

 

One day, when all of us RMWebbers are long gone, an 'e-book' will appear from the ether festooned with such gems, purloined from deceased enthusiast's collections and dusty lofts....!

 

 

Not so confident that Stourbridge signed Hymeks Nidge. I don't think Clive Butcher mentioned them in his books. Gloucester, Worcester and Hereford however did. The Cardiff-Soho tanks normally routed via Worcester, Dudley and Bescot, but diverted via the "North & West" and Cosford when necessary. Trains of 20 x 35T tanks with East Dock class 9Fs saw power replaced by single Hymeks. Trains were doubled up on a trial basis with pairs of Hymeks which split at Bescot, and ran as two separate trains for the remaining circuit.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Phil

[mikeh]

Agrre with Phil there. The Cardiff-Soho Pool trains were not booked to stop at Stourbridge Jn for relief once the Hymeks took over (they did when 9Fs ruled).

 

AFAIK Stourbridge men in the 60s signed EE Type 1s, BR Type 2s, EE and Brush Type 4s with Peaks later as well.

 

And of course if I had thought it through the North Mersey trains were in the WTT, they routed via Honeybourne, Worcester, Stourbridge, Kingswinford Jn, Wombourne, Oxley North, Wellingtomn, Salop.

From 1962 to at least June 1965 the train was 4M54 SX 10.20pm Morris Cowley-North Mersey, steam hauled and booked to take water at Wombourne!

 

By April 1966 it was the 4M54 2220 SX Morris Cowley-Edge Hill, booked diesel and from Stourbridge (crew change) routed via Dudley, Priestfield, Oxley (loco change - steam forward), Wellington, Crewe

Had disappeared by the March 67 WTT.

 

Regards

Mike

 

PS - Mike, SN = Special Notice

[Michael Delamar]

thank you Mike thats brilliant, answered a lot of questions.

 

Im glad to see the Headcode and the fact its an evening train explains a lot, ie lack of sightings and photos.

 

the Hymek id be sure was post 1966.

 

the pilotman worked the Hymek with loaded train from Engine shed junction Edge hill to Exhibition junction Edge hill, that is where incoming trains would then be put into the sorting sidings or carry on to the docks if it didnt need sorting. so Im guessing the Hymek didnt get to the docks, dropped off its train and went back.

 

that it arrived at engine shed junction suggests it came from Runcorn direction.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Michael Delamar

[Rugd1022]

 

 

Not so confident that Stourbridge signed Hymeks Nidge. I don't think Clive Butcher mentioned them in his books. Gloucester, Worcester and Hereford however did. The Cardiff-Soho tanks normally routed via Worcester, Dudley and Bescot, but diverted via the "North & West" and Cosford when necessary. Trains of 20 x 35T tanks with East Dock class 9Fs saw power replaced by single Hymeks. Trains were doubled up on a trial basis with pairs of Hymeks which split at Bescot, and ran as two separate trains for the remaining circuit.

 

Thanks for that Phil - I should have thought of Gloucester men at least, before posting...! Gloucester men had a habit of working through as far as they could with route conductors wherever possible, it was one of those depots where scratting for o/time was the done thing in certain links. In the Hydraulics later years, it was often Gloucester men that took Westerns further than Brum to far flung places with the aid of willing Saltley conductors, often working back to the WR light engine.

[mikeh]

I may have - I went a bit mad on ebay about a month ago when I discovered some by it now listed issues at 3.99 each inc p&p - which seemed quite reasonable as I was agreeing to buy.. before I knew it I'd agreed to by 22 of them!! but I still have gaps in the collection if anyone has copies they can bear to part with,.

 

Jon

I don't have any but would be interested to know what private sidings are covered if you have time?

 

Regards

Mike

[jonhall]

I don't have any but would be interested to know what private sidings are covered if you have time?

 

Regards

Mike

 

Issue 26 ICI Billingham and 25 John Summers - but each issue has at least 1 or 2 freight articles.

 

Jon

[mikeh]

Issue 26 ICI Billingham and 25 John Summers - but each issue has at least 1 or 2 freight articles.

 

Jon

Thanks Jon

Would be very interested in anything with a Weat Midlands flavour?

 

Regards

Mike

[Michael Delamar]

I bumped into the man who piloted the Hymek at Edge hill today at the Preston model railway show.

 

he remembers that it was approx 1968ish ,he was asked to pilot the loco from Engine shed junction to Exhibition junction. it was about 4pm in the afternoon and what he was told it was a special and that it was given priority as the load had to be on a ship waiting in the docks.

 

when he walked from the shed to meet the loco he said he couldnt believe it, a blue Hymek throbbing away and the load was brand new MG sports cars.

 

when he got on the loco it had Oxford, Bescot and Crewe men already on it.

 

he piloted the train to Exhibition junction arrival sidings, journey of probably a mile or so, when it arrived an 8f backed on to the other end and rushed the train off to the docks and the loco went back home.

 

he also recalled seeing a Western at Ditton junction on BOC tanks.

[Michael Delamar]

regarding the earlier route via Aintree, ive been speaking with the gents at the club who used to trainspot in the area, they would recall such freights as the Carlisle which would always have something interesting like a Jubilee on it, but only 1 can ever recall seeing a train of cars.

 

he says he had just been spotting on the shed and was cycling away when a 9f thundred past at speed with a train of cars, too fast for him to get his camera out.

 

when I ask people I make sure not to give much detail to see if what they say ties in with what has been found out.

 

from what I can gather, 9f's where not unknown at Aintree but not an everyday site, I do have shots of a couple of 9fs at Aintree but these are local Speke and Birkenhead locos near the end of steam days.

 

Mike

[TheSignalEngineer]

The Morris Cowley trains generated several reports in Modern Railways 'Motive Power Miscellany' section in the early 1960s. Here's a few examples

 

March 1963, LMR - The named Class 9 2-10-0, No. 92220, now stationed at Oxlord, is frequently employed on the 1.50 pm Morris Cowley - North Mersey Class 4 freight and return working fron Aintree Sorting Sidings.

 

November 1963, LMR - The substantial stud of "Britannia" Pacifics at Crewe now have a rostered working to Oxford on the twice weekly 3.30pm Bathgate to Morris Cowley.....This service was established some time ago between Morris Cowley and destinations in the Liverpool area, but recently it has been reorganised and retimed on a much faster schedule, being simultaneously upgraded to Class 3. Previously it was hauled by Class 9F 2-10-0s.

 

Reports from the WR late 1963 / early 1964 would suggest that the Brits did a few fill-in turns from Oxford to Swindon.

 

April 1964, LMR - Brush Type 4 diesels have also replaced "Britannia" Pacifics on the 13.14 (MWFO)  Morris Cowley to Bathgate and the 12.00 TThSO) return car carrying trains, although it is not clear whether the diesel locomotives (nominally WR units) are working north of Crewe on these turns. 

[Michael Delamar]

The Morris Cowley trains generated several reports in Modern Railways 'Motive Power Miscellany' section in the early 1960s. Here's a few examples

 

March 1963, LMR - The named Class 9 2-10-0, No. 92220, now stationed at Oxlord, is frequently employed on the 1.50 pm Morris Cowley - North Mersey Class 4 freight and return working fron Aintree Sorting Sidings.

 

 turns. 

 

notice how the incoming train goes straight to North mersey goods yard at the docks, while the return starts at Aintree sorting sidings a couple of miles away and near to the shed.

 

I was alway told my an old engineman that incoming freights would go direct to their destination, ie not into a marshalling yard in the area.

 

marshalling being done at the beginning and during the journey if necessary.

 

I would dearly love to find a shot of Evening star on this working anywhere on route.

[Michael Delamar]

April 1964, LMR - Brush Type 4 diesels have also replaced "Britannia" Pacifics on the 13.14 (MWFO)  Morris Cowley to Bathgate and the 12.00 TThSO) return car carrying trains, although it is not clear whether the diesel locomotives (nominally WR units) are working north of Crewe on these turns. 

 

could this be one of those workings? great info by the way, thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

D1715 Lancaster 10.7.68 by George of Dufton, on Flickr

 

My dad is interested in this topic too, being a mechanic and a classic car enthusiast,I showed him the pics and the article posted earlier, he said " 1100's, had loads of them, the back end used to always fall off them"

Edited March 5, 2013 by Michael Delamar

[Michael Delamar]

just flicking through A detailed history of British railways standard steam locomotives, vol 4 the 9f 2-10-0's

 

on page 121..

 

"Oxford recieved five 9fs, 92001, 92220/4/44/5, in October 1962 although three of the group were transferred almost immediateley to other WR depots, leaving only 92220/4 on the shed's books. On 1st October a fiited freight service conveying new cars to Scotland from the Cowley factory near Oxford wa introduced and worked by one of the newly allocated 9fs as far as Crewe.

The service returned from Crewe with a train of commercial vehicles and tractors from the new B.M.C (British Motor Corporation) plant at Bathgate to Morris Cowley.

Another regular duty to Crewe and back often featured 92220 Evening star, this was the 1.40pm Morris Cowley-North Mersey class D freight and the return working from Aintree sorting siding. In the summer of 1963 these services were accelerated and upgraded to class C using Crewe based Britanni pacific power at which time Oxford's 9f's were allocated to Bath green park"

 

no pictures, in fact Its proving hard to find a shot of Evening star during her period at Oxford.

[unravelled]

A very poor picture, taken from a passing train, of 92220 on Oxford shed. This would probably have been 1963.

 

 

Also a train of car flats returning empty, April 1964

 

 

And a bit later in 1964, some minis heading south.

 

 

I don't seem to have photographed any Nortbound car trains, although I have several pictures of returning empties.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[Michael Delamar]

brilliant Unravalled., thank you.

 

I love the one with the minis, would like to see any others.

 

I guess 92220 would be in no different condition to that on the S&D later, where she was well photographed.

 

going to be looking further into the carflats themselves with a view to modelling a train of them,

as always the best place to start..  http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmotorail

[The Stationmaster]

A very poor picture, taken from a passing train, of 92220 on Oxford shed. This would probably have been 1963.

 

1-fn210-061.jpg

 

Also a train of car flats returning empty, April 1964

 

1-sca32.jpg

 

And a bit later in 1964, some minis heading south.

 

1-sca014.jpg

 

I don't seem to have photographed any Nortbound car trains, although I have several pictures of returning empties.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

In the bottom picture the Minis have presumably come from Longbridge although I didn't realise they also made them there (presumably when Cowley was concentrating on 1100s and larger?).

[Michael Delamar]

I should know this as I used to be well up on the minis. cant remember if they made Austin mini's at Longbridge and Morris mini's at Morris Cowley at the same time, or if they made them all under one roof and put the different badges on them in the early years.