Sure railway modelling is expensive, but compared to other hobbies...

[Northmoor]

I hear what you're saying, but you can't sell memories if times are hard. High-end models are an investment, and they give you pleasure too. As for Manchester City, they have been my team since I started following them in 1964/5. They were rubbish then and have often been rubbish since. Where they are now is immaterial. The idea that I could choose to watch Witton Albion instead is a complete non-flyer. Football is not like that. 

 

Just to go to an ordinary league match in a bog standard seat as a one-off is about £50 at the Etihad. 

I completely understand that you can't always go and watch a team you don't support, but you can have a second team you can afford to support.  That's why I've gone to watch Hartlepool a couple of times - we have family there - although I'm not a MASSIVE football fan, but I go to these matches at the Olympic Stadium because one day I won't work in London with someone who is offering me that kind of opportunity. However I have to agree that Premiership football is now out of reach of the masses but that is the price of success.  It should be remembered Chelsea were frequently playing to just a few thousand fans in the 1970s.

 

I find memories are one of life's genuine treasures or horrors, one of the things I find sad and infuriating is the number of people who are so busy photographing things they clearly can't be savouring the experience and they end up spoiling it for others as they act like complete idiots to try and get their photographs. When I worked for British Antarctic Survey I took plenty of photographs but made a conscious decision to leave my camera behind much of the time as in trying to capture moments on film you lose the joy of the experience.

I would consider being paid to work for the BAS on the last great wilderness on earth, to be such a privilege in itself.  That must have been an incredible experience.

[bluebottle]

There is only one WHISKEY - Wild Turkey (the 8-year-old variety).

 

John

 

I think there are a lot of Irish folk who might disagree, but then that explains why the Americans cannot spell Whisky correctly either.

 

There is, in Wikipedia, a long list of places in the United States which are claimed to be named after Sir Walter Scott's novel "Waverley". However, nearly all of them are spelt "Waverly".

 

AAUGH !!!

[jjb1970]

I would consider being paid to work for the BAS on the last great wilderness on earth, to be such a privilege in itself.  That must have been an incredible experience.

 

It was, it was more of a working holiday than a job, if anybody else ever has the opportunity then go for it, you won't regret it.

[BlackRat]

It was, it was more of a working holiday than a job, if anybody else ever has the opportunity then go for it, you won't regret it.

I've been able to both see, and do, some amazing things.

 

AND get paid for the privilege of doing so.

[TheQ]

There is, in Wikipedia, a long list of places in the United States which are claimed to be named after Sir Walter Scott's novel "Waverley". However, nearly all of them are spelt "Waverly".

 

AAUGH !!!

Probably caused by the US postal service who are most of the cause of all the spellings of borough to almost all be changed to boro.

[The Johnster]

I've been able to both see, and do, some amazing things.

 

AND get paid for the privilege of doing so.

 

I have seen battle fleets in flames off the shoulder of Aldebaran...

[Allegheny1600]

Back to the OT, a mate of mine goes shooting - clay pigeons (I've often teased him by asking what they've ever done to him and they must be hard to cook!).

He likes quality guns like Purdey and various Italian makes, whose names I cannot recall and the prices of these are truly eye watering, well into five figure sums - you could buy a LOT of high end model railway for the cost of just one gun. That's without all the associated costs that go with mixing with the hoy poloy, green welly brigade.

Of course, some folk collect exotic cars - now that's a real expensive game.

[The Johnster]

We are forgetting to factor in the cost of our time, which I believe should be accounted for even for a pleasure activity.  Most of work or have worked to earn the money to indulge in such activities, and this is certainly costed in the form of a salary, hourly rate,  or professional fee depending on what our labour is in demand for.  As we have sold some of our time to employers or clients for money, the time we have to ourselves to devote to family, socialising, and hobbies is a limited and scarce resource, which, in line with the basic economic laws of supply and demand, I cost at a base £20/hour for my own purposes.  Time spent on the railway is time I could have used to earn more money, or do other things.  Model railways are time consuming, both in terms of the time it takes to acquire the resources to own them and the time it takes to build and operate them; even more so if you build kits or scratchbuild.  Of course, the same applies to any other hobby or leisure activity; you spend or waste your time, the same verbs as are used for money.

 

My BLT took just over a year of my spare time (but not the exclusive use of my spare time) to get to a state of basic completion, helped by the use of RTR stock, RTL track, and RTP buildings, priced at a market value and at least partially costed by me as time saving.  Spare time is not free at the point of purchase or any other point...

 

The cost is not just monetary, as other activities vie for our attention.  Spouses, children, relatives, other hobbies, friends; all are denied the glory that is us when we are building or operating our railways, or going to shops to buy things for them, or are online wittering on about it.  And our railways are denied the glory that is us when we give these other considerations any, um, consideration; like most things in life, it's a balancing act that is harder for some of us than others; I have it pretty easy, being retired and having a supportive partner, though she does object to the time I 'waste' on this site!

Edited February 6, 2018 by The Johnster

[Andy Hayter]

I completely disagree TJ.

 

You cost your time if your hobby is based around creating something for sale.  If the intention is not to sell the consequences of your hobby then costing your time is a meaningless exercise.  

If you consider that you could alternatively have sold your time for gainful employment. would that realistically have been possible?  Would your employer have allowed you to work those extra hours (legal limits), when his premises were closed (fixed working hours for the enterprise) and when there was no supervision (lone working).  

 

There might be occasions where that might be possible - and especially if you are self employed, provided you can find customers that want you working in their house when the kids are asleep.

 

The whole concept of hobbies is that they are supposed to provide relief from the daily grind and allow batteries to recharge.  Use that time to earn extra crusts and you run a risk of ending  up burnt out.

[OnTheBranchline]

I've foolishly taken on a very expensive new hobby: golf (for business reasons).

 

Anyone who thinks trains are expensive should have a go on the links. Now golf is an throw your money away hobby.

[rockershovel]

If I factored in the cost my time I’d never get anything done on the hobby front. That Sportster needs a full day in the workshop between meetings. The Grasstrack and speedway Bikes, rather more. I practice 3-4 hours a week on the banjo or mandolin, sometimes more. It all adds up.

Edited September 15, 2018 by rockershovel

[Northmoor]

If I factored in the cost my time I’d never get anything done on the hobby front. That Sportster needs a full day in the workshop between meetings. The Grasstrack and speedway Bikes, rather more. I practice 3-4 hours a week on the banjo or mandolin, sometimes more. It all adds up.

Your 3-4 hours/week practice is about what many people spend watching The Soaps.  I know who I think is spending their time more productively.

 

What's "That Sportster"?

[Steamport Southport]

I've foolishly taken on a very expensive new hobby: golf (for business reasons).

 

Anyone who thinks trains are expensive should have a go on the links. Now golf is an throw your money away hobby.

 

Ah. But if it's for "business reasons" then it's not a hobby.

 

 

It's a bit like when I was trying to be a musician, if I was spending money on equipment it was seen as "tools of the trade" rather than that nice little guitar that I've always wanted.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

I don't factor in my own labour when I'm costing a modelling project, as I am retired and unemployable (many of my ex bosses would have told you that I was unemployable before I retired, mind), so am not giving up the opportunity to earn money when I am modelling.  Were I to do so, I would reckon myself at £10/hour, which I think, as a principle, should be the absolute minimum wage rate for anyone who is prepared to get out of bed and go to work.

 

So, I recently bought a loco on 'Bay 'Buy It Now', which needs a bit of unexpected work to get it up to scratch and is not the bargain I though it was when I paid the money.  It is still a fair price for the model in that condition and I have no regrets, but will be a bit wary of this seller next time.  The work to bring it up to a proper condition can be and has been achieved already with resources I had to hand; paint, Glue'n'Glaze, and transfers, so I am not costing these.  Further work is in the nature of additional detail; real coal, brass number plates, and a crew.  I have coal, so will not be costing that, but need to buy number plates and a crew.  As I was going to to do this anyway, it will be costed as 'working up' the loco, not making good the faults with it.  I'm budgeting £15 for this, and as the loco cost £49.50, the total cost will be £64.50, with which I am not delighted but at least content!

[Guius]

I don't factor in my own labour when I'm costing a modelling project, as I am retired and unemployable (many of my ex bosses would have told you that I was unemployable before I retired, mind), so am not giving up the opportunity to earn money when I am modelling.  Were I to do so, I would reckon myself at £10/hour, which I think, as a principle, should be the absolute minimum wage rate for anyone who is prepared to get out of bed and go to work.

 

So, I recently bought a loco on 'Bay 'Buy It Now', which needs a bit of unexpected work to get it up to scratch and is not the bargain I though it was when I paid the money.  It is still a fair price for the model in that condition and I have no regrets, but will be a bit wary of this seller next time.  The work to bring it up to a proper condition can be and has been achieved already with resources I had to hand; paint, Glue'n'Glaze, and transfers, so I am not costing these.  Further work is in the nature of additional detail; real coal, brass number plates, and a crew.  I have coal, so will not be costing that, but need to buy number plates and a crew.  As I was going to to do this anyway, it will be costed as 'working up' the loco, not making good the faults with it.  I'm budgeting £15 for this, and as the loco cost £49.50, the total cost will be £64.50, with which I am not delighted but at least content!

So are you keeping a account of your labour plus materials in order to come to a resale value for your Bay loco project Johnster? 

 

Guy

[brack]

So are you keeping a account of your labour plus materials in order to come to a resale value for your Bay loco project Johnster?

 

Guy

He'll need it to put on the tax forms

[The Johnster]

No.

 

I never sell stock, but have been known to give it away.  By and large, the Cwmdimbath Valley Railway Company buys no more than it needs, but it is the nature of things that older stock is sometimes replaced with better quality newer stock.  

 

But I like to have a ball park idea of what things cost, without it being an obsession, so that I can keep track of whether or not I'm wasting money or could do better.  By and large, I am pretty successful by my own standards; obviously, someone not in the hobby might be horrified at the amount of my limited resources I've sunk into this.  But only 2 of my 8 locos were bought brand new for this layout, and they were both on offer at less than the catalogue price.

 

This is unlikely to survive the introduction of the Bachmann 94xx or the Dapol large prairie, as I will want these as soon as possible after they come out.  But in the case of the 94xx I can defray the cost of the chassis of the loco I will withdraw from service (a Limbach), which will see further service beneath a Hornby 2721 body which is already redacted; say £30 on eBay?  This brings the 94xx in at £95, I am convincing myself...

 

This presents a modelling problem in that the coupling rods will be incorrect, and will have to either be worked up into something that looks like parallel fluted rods or replaced, and now we are talking about scratchbuiding.  Or I'll just live with the anomaly; it won't be the least scale aspect of that model!

[Dava]

Dental implants cost more than most Gauge 0 brass locos, but they get used much more and benefit my quality of life more. So in due course in years to come I'll probably collect a few more.....and avoid those Heljan plastic locos with dodgy gears!

[Kelly]

Dental implants cost more than most Gauge 0 brass locos, but they get used much more and benefit my quality of life more. So in due course in years to come I'll probably collect a few more.....and avoid those Heljan plastic locos with dodgy gears!

Not really a hobby, but if they make your life better then they're much better value than any model.

[Guius]

No.

 

I never sell stock, but have been known to give it away.  By and large, the Cwmdimbath Valley Railway Company buys no more than it needs, but it is the nature of things that older stock is sometimes replaced with better quality newer stock.  

 

But I like to have a ball park idea of what things cost, without it being an obsession, so that I can keep track of whether or not I'm wasting money or could do better.  By and large, I am pretty successful by my own standards; obviously, someone not in the hobby might be horrified at the amount of my limited resources I've sunk into this.  But only 2 of my 8 locos were bought brand new for this layout, and they were both on offer at less than the catalogue price.

 

This is unlikely to survive the introduction of the Bachmann 94xx or the Dapol large prairie, as I will want these as soon as possible after they come out.  But in the case of the 94xx I can defray the cost of the chassis of the loco I will withdraw from service (a Limbach), which will see further service beneath a Hornby 2721 body which is already redacted; say £30 on eBay?  This brings the 94xx in at £95, I am convincing myself...

 

This presents a modelling problem in that the coupling rods will be incorrect, and will have to either be worked up into something that looks like parallel fluted rods or replaced, and now we are talking about scratchbuiding.  Or I'll just live with the anomaly; it won't be the least scale aspect of that model!

I can appreciate you wanting to know an approximation of the cost of your modelling projects but ...

We can manipulate any costing, subconsciously or not, to give a 'true cost' (one we find acceptable or confirming) of what we are doing to justify the operation surely. A for instance might be, do you include a portion of your domestic running costs such as electricity/gas or depreciation of tools and equipment in the finale total? On the plus side of the coin, do you subtract the cost of an evenings average entertainment from the finale bill?

My point being, are you getting a portion of your pleasure from cost engineering your models?

After all a similar exercise was done in Swindon etc.

 

Guy

[Steamport Southport]

Not really a hobby, but if they make your life better then they're much better value than any model.

 

It could be a hobby.   

 

 

Not for the screamish.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ-6TCPdbl0

 

Little Shop Of Horrors.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited September 17, 2018 by Steamport Southport

[Guius]

It could be a hobby.   

 

 

Not for the screamish.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ-6TCPdbl0

 

Little Shop Of Horrors.

 

 

 

Jason

My point exactly, for instance I like to grow veg, nothing fancy you understand just the usual fare. If, however I was to calculate and compare the cost of my own 7lbs of organically grown Charlotte second early potatoes against Tesco's offering I wouldn't bother on grounds of cost alone.

 

Guy

[brack]

"My point being, are you getting a portion of your pleasure from cost engineering your models?

 

After all a similar exercise was done in Swindon etc."

 

I can imagine the conversation - Yes Sir Felix, those new locos do seem expensive, but if the men weren't building then we'd need to be buying extra beer, paying for works outings and trips to the seaside to keep them happy. Once you factor all that in, they're cheaper to build than not...

[The Johnster]

I can appreciate you wanting to know an approximation of the cost of your modelling projects but ...

We can manipulate any costing, subconsciously or not, to give a 'true cost' (one we find acceptable or confirming) of what we are doing to justify the operation surely. A for instance might be, do you include a portion of your domestic running costs such as electricity/gas or depreciation of tools and equipment in the finale total? On the plus side of the coin, do you subtract the cost of an evenings average entertainment from the finale bill?

My point being, are you getting a portion of your pleasure from cost engineering your models?

After all a similar exercise was done in Swindon etc.

 

Guy

 

As I say, I try not to be obsessive about and just want a general idea.  I am sure I probably do skew the results to give me the answer I want in a way that a proper accountant wouldn't, but hey...  

 

I'm probably getting pleasure from cost engineering in the rough and partisan way in which I do it in that it justifies my expenditure and I can convince myself that I am doing it as economically viable as possible.  The only increase in domestic overheads occasioned by modelling is an amount of electricity; the layout is in a bedroom which has to be heated and the Council Tax and Rent paid anyway.  The lighting is LED and I doubt constitutes the equivalent of a 10 watt incnadescent, the transformer probably burns a bit but is left permanently on, and the locos consume next to nothing on a BLT with light loads at low speeds.  On the odd occasion I fire up the soldering iron I burn a few more watts.

 

Tool depreciation is also not factored in, as I bought the tool to perform a specific job anyway; it's cost is added to that job's and it is gratis thereafter.  I am 66 and most of my tools will outlast me, so I don't factor in providing replacements.  Comestibles, such as glue and paint, are written off as being low cost items; I probably spend about £5 a month, mostly poly and superglue.  Expressing that as £60/year, a coach at modern prices, might make me rethink this!

 

Running a layout outside the living area of the property, say in an attic, garage, or shed, would involve serious running costs that I would have to give proper consideration to.

[PhilJ W]

My point exactly, for instance I like to grow veg, nothing fancy you understand just the usual fare. If, however I was to calculate and compare the cost of my own 7lbs of organically grown Charlotte second early potatoes against Tesco's offering I wouldn't bother on grounds of cost alone.

 

Guy

Even cheaper, I once found a few 'forgotten' spuds at the back of the cupboard. As most were starting to sprout into the ground they went and we got quite a good crop.