Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I recently acquired three Bachmann V1/3 locomotives and am a little puzzled.

 

The first two (earlier models)  are lined in red/grey 'mixed traffic' lining .......... but I notice that the third, from a later production run, is lined in 'red/cream'.

 

Righty or wrongly I assumed that the earlier production livery was incorrect and that Bachmann had 'corrected it' on the later production.

 

For the record, I also have a Bachmann K3 and a 3MT tank, both of which, although heavily weathered, appear to be of the red/cream variety.

 

I therefore ordered a sheet of HMRS pressfix mixed traffic lining with the intention of re-doing the two earlier V1/3 models - only to find that this is red/grey.

 

Were there two prototype versions of BR mixed traffic lining?  Or if not, which is correct?  Can any of our more knowledgable members offer any information on this? 

 

Thanks,

Don Mason

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just done a search as I have no knowledge of this and am considering re livery of a couple of my loco's and found this useful quote on one site

It is useful to note that in all cases of British Railways mixed traffic lining I apply the very fine cream line that is such an important part of the overall livery.

 

I think that is a suitable answer

Link to post
Share on other sites

IIRC it was down to the fact that initially Bachmann said that it was extremely difficult to accurately print on the three colors and that most people wouldn't notice the absence if the cream lining. However when Hornby released their 4MT they made a great thing about it being fully lined out and Bachmann felt obliged to follow their lead by including the cream on future releases.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

Both Bachmann versions are a simplification of the actual livery. It was red, cream AND grey, the outer band being a 5/8" grey line, then right next to it a 1/8" band of cream. The final 1/4" red band is seperated from the cream band by 1 5/8"

 

So you can see in 4mm the cream band is very fine (some 0.04mm) and difficult until recently for RTR manufacturers to accurately reproduce

 

All taken from information posted my another kind member on this forum some time ago :)

 

Hope that helps

 

Edit: Phil beat me to most of it whist I was doing the research ;)

Edited by RedgateModels
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

And again info filed for future use

 

Interesting to know that Bachmann made out it was too difficult but then had to eat their own words when Hornby produced the correct linings

 

I wasn't aware of this but it all helps as my models get more and more detailed

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest stuartp

Interesting to know that Bachmann made out it was too difficult but then had to eat their own words when Hornby produced the correct linings.

 

Extremely dfficult, not too difficult.

 

Putting the bodyshell through the tampo-printing machine three times increases the rejection rate (twice the opportunity to get something misaligned) so if your competitor isn't doing it then you're just decreasing your margin for no benefit. If your competitor is doing it then it's worth the risk of increased rejects, or the cost of a better tampo printing machine, and bumping the price up a bit to maintain your margin. Especially if your competitor's RRP is up to 50% above yours to start with.  

Edited by stuartp
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the loco lining/colour scheme of the LNWR. If they ever get around to producing a RTR OO model of an LNWR loco (the Super D/G2A doesn't count, it is in LMS condition) then they should be able to do a good job on it.

 

I think the carriage livery might be too difficult though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So looking at those line widths, the cream line would hardly be noticable anyway in 4mm scale - especially if the loco is weathered.  In which case one wonders why Bachmann dropped the grey, which would be much more noticable.......and replaced it with the cream (which isn't).

 

I am therefore tempted to go with the HMRS transfers, certainly for my  GER D16/3, currently still in the building stage.

 

Thanks all.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest stuartp

In which case one wonders why Bachmann dropped the grey, which would be much more noticable.......and replaced it with the cream (which isn't).

Sounds like it still might be a bit too difficult then, I've not seen one to check. Hornby's current 2P has it, the older issue (40610) doesn't, and it does set the newer model apart.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Chris - What's this thing about you and 9F's then?

 

Main reason for this comment is to say that's the best looking track and ground work I've seen on a model in many years - possibly even ever.....and I go back 60 or so of them!  Superb!

 

Don Mason (not too far away from you in Nottingham)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

Hi Don,

 

It's Ian, actually, the photo was taken by Chris Nevard on his layout Catcott Burtle at Wycrail 2011 and subsequently used in my Model Rail article. The loco is the "never was" 2-8-2 originally designed but never built as Riddles wanted a 2-10-0 - see the irony in the name :lol:

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for the confusion Ian - but whoever and whatever, it's still superb trackwork and ground cover.

 

Now that you've reminded me I believe I did see the article in Model Rail.

 

- Don

Link to post
Share on other sites

So looking at those line widths, the cream line would hardly be noticable anyway in 4mm scale - especially if the loco is weathered.  In which case one wonders why Bachmann dropped the grey, which would be much more noticable.......and replaced it with the cream (which isn't).

 

Because what it is trying to replicate is the effect of the lining when viewed from normal distance.

The cream line was thin but bright and lifted the colour of the thicker dull grey line. The effect works better at 4mm with a dull cream overall than with a light grey.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's the same as the 1/8" orange lining, which is theoretically below the resolution of the human eye in 4mm, but is actually clearly visible.

 

Hello Griffone,

 

I'm not so sure about the orange line being clearly visible as most of the manufactures print this line quite over scale. If this line was to be printed at the scale size it would be 0.0016" or 0.041mm. Or the thickness of a fag paper.

 

OzzyO.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 years later...

On a slightly different slant, was there ever a standard distance from 'the edge' (of cab, tank, bunker, and so on) for the outer line?

 

I am about to attempt some 'practice' lining on a Bachmann V1 and am contemplating some drawings/calculations so I can cut my transfers to the right sizes (don't try to fathom what is going on in my head - good grief, I haven't got anywhere with it yet!). Then we can see how well that works (though, already alarmed by the lack of cream line and variation in the width of red lines between straight and curved bits!)

 

While you are discussing my insanity, I am off to learn how to hone a ruling pen (the V1 has two sides, you see, and I am going slightly mad...)

 

So...how far from the edge...? (The line, not me)

 

Best,

Marcus

Link to post
Share on other sites

A diagram I have [which I think was linked to from this forum sometime ago] gives the distance from the edge of a panel or footplate to the outer line as 5 inches, except below cab windows where it shows 4 inches. The same diagram gives the radius on corners of the outer line as 7 inches and the inner line as 4 inches.

 

Jeremy

Link to post
Share on other sites

A diagram I have [which I think was linked to from this forum sometime ago] gives the distance from the edge of a panel or footplate to the outer line as 5 inches, except below cab windows where it shows 4 inches. The same diagram gives the radius on corners of the outer line as 7 inches and the inner line as 4 inches.

 

Jeremy

Many thanks; now onwards to actually applying lining to tank sides. I'll keep the thread posted with progress, observations and results...and thoughts on how Imget to where I hope to be going...

 

Best,

Marcus

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Marcus,

Good move with the bowpen honing;- with care, you can get a decent quality pen to draw a sub-0.04mm line, & thereby put in the cream line;- It really does make a difference to the overall appearance of the livery, even on a weathered loco, so it's well worth the effort...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, OK, its all daubs and splotches, but I just couldn't resist having a go, even though I was totally unprepared, halfway through breakfast and horribly hung over (don't go there), but I did and here is the first attempt. My reaction? The two ruled lines, compared to the HMRS transfers I tried earlier (the ones at the very bottom): 'deeply suspicious - it wasn't supposed to be that easy'

 

post-6357-0-96931700-1434542634_thumb.jpg

 

So, later tonight, focused and primed by Ian Rathbone's book, we have another go...

 

Best,

Marcus

Edited by EHertsGER
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.