D1030western musketeer Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I am glad to say that due to good news financial wise 2 class 43s will be ordered shortly to add to my class 42s. richard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted August 19, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 19, 2015 I chose to hold down each ring onto a hard glass surface (cutting mats have too much give) and cut the fret away from the ring's stem. I could then pick them up with tweezers, smear a little superglue on with a cocktail stick point and place into the hole with a steadied hand. The rings are a good fit so there wasn't too much fighting or swearing involved. ID 10 T question. Are the rings in-line or transverse? I can't find a decent image to convince me one way or the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Are the rings in-line or transverse? I can't find a decent image to convince me one way or the other. Based on the highest res download of this one https://www.flickr.com/photos/lombardstown/12526372154/in/photolist-fQcVD1-dpK9MV-k5UW2G-5ZPD3A-dpoTsS-e1eoJm-jSyahz-pKYxQLI'd go with inline Rick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted August 19, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 19, 2015 Thanks. Inline it is then. D835 is first up and has its rings, roof traps and plumbing fitted. Just need to await the Fox delivery before I can apply weathering around an etched name plate. D865 is next up and D842 lucky last. The rings were applied using a cocktail stick and a pair of tweezers. A few minuscule glue spots will be covered by the weathering. Not too hard to do but a very steady hand is required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1030western musketeer Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I have ordered a 842 royal oak but I have heard so much that all decoys are over size but I intend to remove and fit double arrows and possible rename. My question is although I have read a few times what is the best way to remove these without requiring a complete respray and help and details much needed. I have also noticed modelling a class 43 really depends on the one you are wanting as differed it appears to every one built. Cheers. richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted August 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2015 Like many classes of locomotive the more accurate you wish to be in your representation the more research you will have to do. Class 43 is no different to most in that liveries and details are a minefield. "The Book of the Warships" is a substantial reference but will be of immense help to the serious student. There are many less compendious and cheaper pictorial works available which can be used for reference but remember to not only check the locomotive but also the date as details change with time. The double arrow logo on D842 is said to be oversized but doesn't appear to be hugely so. If you wish to remove it then delicate use of T-cut or Model Strip will remove it. Replace it with a Fox decal or similar brand. If you go as far as a renumber / rename you might find you also need different size arrows to fit in different locations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted August 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Brian Hanson took some very useful shots on the roof of D832 which is an "honorary class 43" as it has the NBL scavenger grilles. You can see the lifting ring is in line in Brian's first pic - I am of course assuming the Swindon and NBL rings were no different. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/39887-warship-scavenger-fans/?p=426566 Neil Edited August 21, 2015 by Downendian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Hi Everyone, My new green 43 has become D865 Zealous (cos i've already got an earlier conversion that's Peg, as shewn below), at least on one side, still haven't chosen 2nd identity for other side. D865 has now had all it's bits and bobs attached, the roof detail is "great fun", surely the 4mm equivalent of a hair shirt, especially if trying to avoid a mess with the glue (i'll own up to one small smudge behind one cab roof vent!)? Judging from photographs, one characteristic of Warship operation, especially with Class 43s, are the selective open windows, engine room windows tend to usually be open (to let the leaking exhaust fumes out), leading cab windows open to emit more fumes and excess heat from the transmission, and let fresh air in. Rear cabs tend to have windows shut, to keep trailing exhaust out, and probably closed as part of a cab shut-down procedure. I've also cut the windows on several of my older Class 42 models, it seems to add a bit more realism, but it's not for the faint-hearted, requiring cab strip down plus drilling, cutting and filing to shape. All real Warship side windows seem to slide either way, so various poses are possible. At least we don't have to grind off the old 42 windscreen wipers anymore, but some of these 43 wipers seem to be rather well glued and can leave a scar if shifted. One of my spare old Class 42 crews have been re-trained for this Class 43 operation, involving removal of part of their lower limbs and a lump filed off their backsides to fit. Cheers, Brian. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) Hi Everyone, My new green 43 has become D865 Zealous (cos i've already got an earlier conversion that's Peg, as shewn below), at least on one side, still haven't chosen 2nd identity for other side. D865 has now had all it's bits and bobs attached, the roof detail is "great fun", surely the 4mm equivalent of a hair shirt, especially if trying to avoid a mess with the glue (i'll own up to one small smudge behind one cab roof vent!)? Judging from photographs, one characteristic of Warship operation, especially with Class 43s, are the selective open windows, engine room windows tend to usually be open (to let the leaking exhaust fumes out), leading cab windows open to emit more fumes and excess heat from the transmission, and let fresh air in. Rear cabs tend to have windows shut, to keep trailing exhaust out, and probably closed as part of a cab shut-down procedure. I've also cut the windows on several of my older Class 42 models, it seems to add a bit more realism, but it's not for the faint-hearted, requiring cab strip down plus drilling, cutting and filing to shape. All real Warship side windows seem to slide either way, so various poses are possible. At least we don't have to grind off the old 42 windscreen wipers anymore, but some of these 43 wipers seem to be rather well glued and can leave a scar if shifted. One of my spare old Class 42 crews have been re-trained for this Class 43 operation, involving removal of part of their lower limbs and a lump filed off their backsides to fit. Cheers, Brian. CIMG4880.JPG CIMG4909.JPG CIMG4913.JPG CIMG4912.JPG CIMG4902.JPG CIMG4884.JPG CIMG4904.JPG Which well illustrates the, IMHO, overly bright green that Bachmann have used on the Class 43. My pair of D828 & D834 do look rather odd side-by-side. Regards, John Isherwood. Edited August 22, 2015 by cctransuk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Which well illustrates the, IMHO, overly bright green that Bachmann have used on the Class 43. My pair of D828 & D835 do look rather odd side-by-side. Regards, John Isherwood. Sorry John i disagree, are you seriously suggesting that by, say early 1964, they'd all be in the same shade of green? Personally i welcome varying shades, the older Bachmann 42 models tended to be a more drab/in service colour (but even the 42 models varied), the new Class 43 model represents a repainted ex-works loco in fresh paint, before the shade naturally darkened, over the coming months and years. I think it would look even odder, if all the locos on one's layout were exactly the same colour, and far less natural. BK 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted August 22, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2015 A bit of weathering will soon blend things down! Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 To back up Brian's comments on the different shades of green once in service, check out the photo on page 15 of 'Diesel Hydraulics In The 1960s and 1970s' by John Jennison and Tony Sheffield, which shows a pair of green NBLs on the same train at Saltash in the early Spring of 1962, namely D862 on the front looking like a new pin, piloting D857 which looks extremely drab in comparison, having been in service a few months longer. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Sorry John i disagree, are you seriously suggesting that by, say early 1964, they'd all be in the same shade of green? Personally i welcome varying shades, the older Bachmann 42 models tended to be a more drab/in service colour (but even the 42 models varied), the new Class 43 model represents a repainted ex-works loco in fresh paint, before the shade naturally darkened, over the coming months and years. I think it would look even odder, if all the locos on one's layout were exactly the same colour, and far less natural. BK Unfortunately for me, the Warships only just fit into my early 1960s modelling period. Both D828 (Swindon October 1960) and D834 (NBL Glasgow July 1960) would have been in pretty much ex-works condition, and the very noticeable difference in colour of the two models does look incongruous. IMHO, neither the old nor the new Bachmann renditions of BR Locomotive Green are correct; the old one is too 'muddy' - reminicent of Army green; the new one is too 'bottle green'. At some point I'll probably respray them both with the appropriate Phoenix Precision colour; which seems to me to exactly reproduce the colour of the many ex-works diesel locos that I saw in the early 1960s. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1030western musketeer Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Well my blue 842 arrived today yes a nice model but have noticed 4 detail parts missing ie 2 long ladders and 2 air pipes also noticed it has the same pick up arrangement similar to the class 40. Also I have noticed they are taller and bigger than my 42s so cant run in a pairing with them, then lets hope Bachmann re do the 42 to these standards. richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) Unfortunately for me, the Warships only just fit into my early 1960s modelling period. Both D828 (Swindon October 1960) and D834 (NBL Glasgow July 1960) would have been in pretty much ex-works condition, and the very noticeable difference in colour of the two models does look incongruous. IMHO, neither the old nor the new Bachmann renditions of BR Locomotive Green are correct; the old one is too 'muddy' - reminicent of Army green; the new one is too 'bottle green'. At some point I'll probably respray them both with the appropriate Phoenix Precision colour; which seems to me to exactly reproduce the colour of the many ex-works diesel locos that I saw in the early 1960s. Regards, John Isherwood. An update :- I have now given my S/H old Bachmann (Class 42) D828 a second coat of Klear, to produce something nearer to an ex-works finish. The colour difference with the new D834 (formerly D835, new Bachmann Class 43) is still evident, but nowhere near as pronounced; and I'm putting this down in some part to the contrast with the lemon yellow warning panel on D834(5). My ultimate conclusion is that the green of D834 (old Bachmann) is closest to the truth. I have also established that it is possible to fit the under-bufferbeam 'scuttles' whilst retaining auto-couplers. Just cut a 2.0mm. slot halfway down the 'scuttles' and you will find that the couplers will pass through it and into the NEM pockets with no problems. This improves the 'draughty void' below the bufferbeams no end !! Why didn't Bachmann provide slotted as well as solid 'scuttles'? Regards, John Isherwood. Edited August 22, 2015 by cctransuk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 An update :- I have now given my S/H old Bachmann (Class 42) D828 a second coat of Klear, to produce something nearer to an ex-works finish. The colour difference with the new D834 (formerly D835, new Bachmann Class 43) is still evident, but nowhere near as pronounced; and I'm putting this down in some part to the contrast with the lemon yellow warning panel on D834(5). My ultimate conclusion is that the green of D834 (old Bachmann) is closest to the truth. I have also established that it is possible to fit the under-bufferbeam 'scuttles' whilst retaining auto-couplers. Just cut a 2.0mm. slot halfway down the 'scuttles' and you will find that the couplers will pass through it and into the NEM pockets with no problems. This improves the 'draughty void' below the bufferbeams no end !! Why didn't Bachmann provide slotted as well as solid 'scuttles'? Regards, John Isherwood. Sounds good John, don't forget D834 Pathfinder was the really odd bod with two different style roof fans (i.e. one NBL, one Swindon), at least in the late 60s (good pic in Bradford Barton's 42/43 book), although i'd reckon it was from quite early on. If you're modelling c.1960/1, i'm not sure this will affect your model, perhaps Swindon were swapping bits around later? D834 is an elusive beast photographically, you'll be hard pressed to find it in OPC's "Power Of The Warships", whereas pics of the first NBL- D833 Panther, with it's odd pair of Swindon fans, are quite common. It's on the front cover of the aforementioned OPC book, complete with Swindon fans in July 1961, maybe Swindon sent NBL a pair to try or copy? The third oddity Swindon 42 D832 had NBL type fans from god know when on, lots of piccy proof, plus of course it's still trundling around with it's higher NBL fans for all to see. (Hands up how many people didn't believe me when i mentioned it the other day - "Brian's gone mad!"). All the other 43s are fairly physically consistent, apart from later added front vent holes around the blue period. We've learnt that 43s lost their multiple jumpers in the mid-60s, but D857/857 seems to be the Hardy Kruger (The One That Got Away), i've found a few pics of it in blue c.1969/70, happily chugging around with full multiple equipment still attached. Don't have nightmares! Cheers, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Sounds good John, don't forget D834 Pathfinder was the really odd bod with two different style roof fans (i.e. one NBL, one Swindon), at least in the late 60s (good pic in Bradford Barton's 42/43 book), although i'd reckon it was from quite early on. If you're modelling c.1960/1, i'm not sure this will affect your model, perhaps Swindon were swapping bits around later? D834 is an elusive beast photographically, you'll be hard pressed to find it in OPC's "Power Of The Warships", whereas pics of the first NBL- D833 Panther, with it's odd pair of Swindon fans, are quite common. It's on the front cover of the aforementioned OPC book, complete with Swindon fans in July 1961, maybe Swindon sent NBL a pair to try or copy? The third oddity Swindon 42 D832 had NBL type fans from god know when on, lots of piccy proof, plus of course it's still trundling around with it's higher NBL fans for all to see. (Hands up how many people didn't believe me when i mentioned it the other day - "Brian's gone mad!"). All the other 43s are fairly physically consistent, apart from later added front vent holes around the blue period. We've learnt that 43s lost their multiple jumpers in the mid-60s, but D857/857 seems to be the Hardy Kruger (The One That Got Away), i've found a few pics of it in blue c.1969/70, happily chugging around with full multiple equipment still attached. Don't have nightmares! Cheers, Brian. Brian, In the interests of an easy life, I'm going to assume that D834 was at least delivered with matching fans - even if they were changed soon after !! Thanks for all the info. Regards, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium drjcontroller Posted August 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 23, 2015 Anyone looked at re-gauging to EM or P4 yet, my D842 is en route as I type. Douglas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1047 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Anyone looked at re-gauging to EM or P4 yet, my D842 is en route as I type. Douglas Hi Douglas I have EM gauged using existing wheels by simply opening out the original wheels.The flanges are some of the finest Bachman have used .Paul James kindly took a slither off the backs of the wheels on his lathe but I don't think this is absolutely necessary if you don't have access to a lathe it just helps to retain as much of the split axle to be retained in the gear sleeve.All the brake gear is correctly set to scale so no need to adjust and the gear wheel holds the axle in place so no need for washes .Tested it on my Shenston road and runs a treat. Well done Bachman for making it EM friendly. cheers Greg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1030western musketeer Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Certainly not a great lover of those pick up arrangements as cause a lot of dead connections and flicking lights , has anyone added there own yet . Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted August 24, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) Certainly not a great lover of those pick up arrangements as cause a lot of dead connections and flicking lights , has anyone added there own yet . Richard Hi Richard Hopefully wont be as bad as the 40 as no centre electrically dead axle to balance on. Will not make a judgment on it until we have run on the layout though Phil Edited August 24, 2015 by Phil Bullock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Hi Douglas I have EM gauged using existing wheels by simply opening out the original wheels.The flanges are some of the finest Bachman have used .Paul James kindly took a slither off the backs of the wheels on his lathe but I don't think this is absolutely necessary if you don't have access to a lathe it just helps to retain as much of the split axle to be retained in the gear sleeve.All the brake gear is correctly set to scale so no need to adjust and the gear wheel holds the axle in place so no need for washes .Tested it on my Shenston road and runs a treat. Well done Bachman for making it EM friendly. cheers Greg Just to carry on from Greg's post, here are a few shots of the wheels and converting them to EM. The wheels on Greg's 43 where standard Bachmann split axles and as such are easy to turn down in a lathe. The flanges are on average 0.70-0.75 mm thick and around the same in flange depth. They will run on EM track just opened out, but experience on Shenston Road has found that reducing the flange thickness down to 0.5mm thick and depth to around 0.55 mm, + or - 0.05mm, makes for much better running characteristics. Being split axles makes it easier to mount the tread of the wheel in the lathe to take a bit of the back of the wheel to reduce the flange thickness and then turn it round and mount it in the lathe using the axle to take the flange depth down. I use a couple of files, carefully finishing off with fine emery to do this part and clean up the wheel. This also has the effect of taking the blackening off the tread of the wheel improving pickup. The axles on the 43 are slightly different to others Bachmann have used in the past as to accommodate the speedo and wheelslip detection drives, two of the axles have small diameter extensions to them, on one axle they are on both sites and on another one on one side only. The aforementioned drives have small holes in the back of them which fit over the axle extensions. I was a bit worried extensions as the outside measurement across these axles increased from 24.25 mm for 00 to 25.9 mm. I was worried that this may make it difficult to position the drives back onto the EM'ed wheelsets, so I reduced the length of the extensions from 1.5mm to 1mm so that the overall length of these axles was only 24.9mm. Normally I would have tapped the wheel out on the axle as well to get them out to EM gauge, but in the case of the 43 as the wheels are visible I left them as was on the axle and compensated by not pushing the split axle fully back into the plastic gearwheel/center tube, which you will notice in the accompanying photos below. In the first photo you can see one wheelset broken down into its constituent parts. Note when reassembling to get the bearings back in the right way so as to get the Bachman pick up system to work. Unless of course you are dispensing with it. The very top wheelset is still to 00 gauge and is the one with the extensions on either side for the various drives. The one below it has been turned down and opened up to EM gauge. The next shot is of a converted wheelset on the right, next to an original 00 wheelset on the left. This is the other wheelset with an extension, but only on one side this time. The last shot is of four converted wheelsets. One important thing to note is to make sure the gearwheel is equal distance from the backs of both wheels. This is because the gearset acts to hold the wheelset central in the bogie frames, and if they where not equal the bogie would run crabbed on the track. I use a good quality vernier gauge for this and all the other measurements during the conversion process. Hope the above is of use. Paul J. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium drjcontroller Posted August 26, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 26, 2015 Many thanks to Greg & Paul for your very helpful replies. I finally get my hands on the model next week (birthday present), really looking forward to it. By the way Greg, I think you and I have the same employer ! Douglas 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted August 31, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2015 Brush Veteran has an excellent shot of D845 that I was going to model https://www.flickr.com/photos/59835095@N02/6309614977/in/album-72157627920981333/ That's April 69...looks pretty smart ... but heres the other side in August!!!! http://www.railblue.com/pages/Photo%20Galleries/David%20Mant%20Collection/DMC_D845_BR_270869.htm Thanks David...do I really want to create that??? Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted August 31, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) Brush Veteran has an excellent shot of D845 that I was going to model https://www.flickr.com/photos/59835095@N02/6309614977/in/album-72157627920981333/ That's April 69...looks pretty smart ... but heres the other side in August!!!! http://www.railblue.com/pages/Photo%20Galleries/David%20Mant%20Collection/DMC_D845_BR_270869.htm Thanks David...do I really want to create that??? Phil That replacement maroon panel would be a nice touch for not a lot of effort. John Edited August 31, 2015 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now