Bachmann announce Mk2f's

[brushman47544]

Andrew, The blue/grey are the FO and the intercity are TSO. Tony.

Thanks, so the blue/grey TSOs could have the same issue as the Intercity ones. But let’s hope not.

[ThaneofFife]

the plot thickens.

[Tiddles47]

Having looked at the availability update on Bachmann's website its interesting to note the ScR DBSO's are  due next month but yet the B&G version is "out of stock" hmmmm

[brushman47544]

Having looked at the availability update on Bachmann's website its interesting to note the ScR DBSO's are  due next month but yet the B&G version is "out of stock" hmmmm

 

"out of stock" when an item hasn't been released has in the past meant that they have arrived but are not yet ready for distribution to retailers. In this case some of the Mk2f, TPO POTs and Freightliner flats now showing as "out of stock" were showing as September or October 2018 arrivals a couple of weeks ago.

[sanspareil]

Could someone kindly clear something up for me if its possible (sorry if mentioned in another post and i missed it).

 

Whilst i see that the RFB is in swallow livery I see the TSO's are not. I was on the understanding that all the initial batches of IC stock were to be swallow style IC livery based on some photos? I notice none have the CDL lights by the doors, so will we see a future run of RFB/TSO/BSO in Swallow IC with CDL lights? I cant find any Bachmann references to this yet?

 

Given the high cost I have to be very careful and choosy about what I buy now, in the old days I would have just bought and thought about it later if anything else better came out!

[BR(S)]

Could someone kindly clear something up for me if its possible (sorry if mentioned in another post and i missed it).

 

Whilst i see that the RFB is in swallow livery I see the TSO's are not. I was on the understanding that all the initial batches of IC stock were to be swallow style IC livery based on some photos? I notice none have the CDL lights by the doors, so will we see a future run of RFB/TSO/BSO in Swallow IC with CDL lights? I cant find any Bachmann references to this yet?

 

Given the high cost I have to be very careful and choosy about what I buy now, in the old days I would have just bought and thought about it later if anything else better came out!

As far as I know, there hasn't been any indication from Bachmann regarding future liveries for these coaches, so we'd have to wait for the 2019 releases list.

 

The Intercity versions for this first batch were always to be with the Executive-style of lower case lettering and no CDLs, except for the Swallow lettering on the RFB.

[GordonC]

I was a bit surprised the RFB didn't have the CDL lights when it was a feature Bachmann were pointing out, but they would have operated like that before they were fitted.

 

Another thing might be if you have a few years to wait for IC swallow and CDL fitted versions ... what will the prices be then? It's always a bit of a gamble guessing what will or won't be released next

[ThaneofFife]

not many long lived liveries for these is there?  swallow and virgin spring to mind so expect at least one of these to be announced in 2019.

 

Possibly Cargo - D blue/grey versions?

[GordonC]

Anglia? Would there have been any GWR variations? Arriva? We're the Gatwick express ones 2Fs?

 

I'm not entirely sure which would have been 2D, 2E and 2F

['CHARD]

Anglia? Would there have been any GWR variations? Arriva? We're the Gatwick express ones 2Fs?

 

I'm not entirely sure which would have been 2D, 2E and 2F

 

I don't have the relevant files to hand, but from memory most, if not all surviving Ds and Es were with Virgin (XC principally, plus a few on West Coast) at the time of privatisation. 

 

Anglia had 2Fs in significant numbers and still uses some DRS examples.

 

Arriva belatedly introduced Mk2s in Wales and some ran for a time in Northern on an earlier franchise, can't remember whose or in what livery.

 

ScotRail has its Saltire ones.

 

DRS has a small fleet, famously bashed around the Cumbrian Coast with DRS 37/4s.

 

The GatEx 488 sets were converted from 2Fs.

 

Sleeper services have used 2F lounge and reception cars.

[The Fatadder]

Great Western Trains / FGW were predominantly 2D

In FGW day’s the BSO and RMBF were both heavily modified

They also used a lot of the declassified 2d FOs

 

Virgin XC had a mix of E and F along with some D, it is possible to find actual formations made exclusively of 2E (bar the rfb) or 2F but it was often a mixture

[sanspareil]

I was a bit surprised the RFB didn't have the CDL lights when it was a feature Bachmann were pointing out, but they would have operated like that before they were fitted.

 

Another thing might be if you have a few years to wait for IC swallow and CDL fitted versions ... what will the prices be then? It's always a bit of a gamble guessing what will or won't be released next

 

Fair point on the cost, still seeing double digit percentage rises year on year so it wont be very long at all (if the rises continue) until the RRP could be over a ton a coach for DCC fitted. I know one thing that has never ever gone up double digit and thats my pay

 

I think swallow and/or virgin in 2019 will be big contenders. Be interesting to see that if it is swallow if a CDL version of the RFB comes out too or if what is already out is it.

Edited October 26, 2018 by sanspareil

[Redford73]

Not sure if this has been mentioned already but these are just to dear for me.

 

I had seen the prices at pre-order stage and was put off and now they have arrived, although I accept they are of exceptional quality and with all bells and whistles, I am afraid they are just too expensive for purchasing especially in rakes as they need to be.

 

To me, and I know this is a personal choice, the benefits of the DCC and lights options are outweighed by their high cost. It wasn't long ago you could buy a loco for the price of ome of these and in fact some of the Railroad range is less!

 

I am sticking with the Hornby MK2D and Es. 

[TRAILRAGE]

I know how you feel Redford73. There's no way in hell I could justify spending the amount need to replace my old stock.

I'll be sticking with my old Airfix / Mailine / Dapol MK2 D's and my old Lima MK2 E/F coahes I rekon.

[KDG]

Priced me out too. I'll buy a DBSO for one of my DRS Lima 2F rakes, and that will probably be it.

 

They do look good though....

[John M Upton]

I can see these being slow sellers and discounting happening in a year to eighteen months, particularly the blue/grey RFB which seems to be a bit pointless.  Hopefully the same will happen with the N scale version if they ever appear...

[Johnfromoz]

Another modeller here, who is quite happy with the (newish) Hornby 2e, despite their often listed faults. Would never pay 60 GBP upwards for a coach.

 

Reading some reviews of the new Bachmann product gives me a chuckle, what with their own errors in manufacture. Havig built up a sizeable fleet of (less than perfectly) lighted mark 2e for about 12-15 GBP each in sales and preloved offerings, I find the window shape and glazing to be far superior on the Hornby version.

[ThaneofFife]

the N scale ones though are in a different league price wise and there is only one basic option (no dcc).  i reckon the 00 versions will be discounted (over and above the usual entry level discount) long before the N gauge ones will.

 

agree- these will be slow sellers no matter how good they are.  I also didn't see much point in that RFB variant.  seems very limited but fair play to Bachmann I suppose they have catered for every future variant they might want to visit - maybe the sleeper lounge cars.

 

Hattons and Rails etc seem to do packs of wagons and coaches with decent discounts so its possible that if you buy 4 or 8 in future a decent amount off will be available.

[MJI]

I am sticking with detailed Airfix 2Ds and a couple of Lima 2Fs

 

From my pile of Airfix 2D I have produced across two rakes

2C BSO

2D TSO, TSOT, BFK, FK

2E TSO early and late

2F FO

 

Lima will be a WCML set mixed with Joueff 3As I never got round HST conversion due to late Hornby 3s.

[wombatofludham]

Be careful what you wish for.

Do we really want these coaches to be sales lemons so they end up being heavily discounted?  Really?  All that will do will make Bachmann less inclined to invest in any new toolings aimed at the post steam market.  We already have Hornby fixated on producing high spec coaching for the kettleistas and duff, careless but cheap-ish models for the D+E market (I know I keep banging on about it but their Mk2e with a visible solebar is just pathetic, wouldn't be tolerated by the Finescale Taliban and put me off buying any of them straight away) so do we want the same from Bachmann who at least seem to understand there is a market for models dating from after 1968?

The problem really is our fault.  We have been banging on for years about wanting stock that matches Continental standards.  We have been demanding increased levels of detail, features like lighting, separately fitted details, detailed accurate interiors and so on.  Yet when Bachmann deliver a range that, in DCC fitted, allows you not only to control the interior lighting but gives you the option to have a tail lamp or not, has beautifully modelled interiors including correctly glazed interior bulkheads instead of the more usual solid moulding, but also do a non DCC version at a lower price to recognise that some would prefer not to pay for DCC kit they don't want, we get a chorus of complaints about the price and a death wish to see them bomb so they can be picked up in a distress sale.

Personally I hope they do well so it encourages Bachmann to carry on investing in D+E models rather than chasing the Grey Pound with esoteric Kettleista satisfying stock that Hornby favour.  I want these coaches to do well so we can persuade Bachmann to invest in a pre 1980's OHLE emu for example, or upscaling their proposed N gauge 319.

Just as an aside, Rails of Sheffield (other box shifters are available) are listing the Hornby Mk2e at £32.50 with the visible panty line, simple moulded interior and printed on CDL lights.  They are even listing the current Hornby issue of the old Airfix Mk2d TSO in the fictional 7 bay first class bodyshell for the same price (another "Oh that'll do" moment from Hornby).  They are listing the Bachmann 2f non-DCC models at £46.71.  Whilst I accept that is about 43% higher, for me it's worth it just to lose that stupid underframe. 

If you are happy with the Hornby lackadaisical approach to anything post 1968 then that's fine, for once we have a sensible choice between a flawed, relatively cheap model and a higher spec model so if you can live with the underframe by all means go for the Hornby model, in effect you will be able to get three for the price of two Bachmann coaches.  Just don't wish the Bachmann model to be a sales lemon because if it does stiff, it'll call into question any further investment in D+E models.  Also, beware of asking for increasing details and features.  You won't get them at swapmeet prices.

[LU_fan]

I've gone and done a bad. Purchased three of these a few days ago, including the blue/grey RFB. Didn't remember until the day after that it was the wrong era for what I was planning. Though that could be the start of a charter train.

 

Anyway, the coaches do look very good. There are however a few things I'm wondering.

 

•The interior. I know the seats are the wrong way around in the FO and I'm planning on turning them when I get home. But, would that mean haivng to turn the whole interior, or is the seating area a separate part from the rest?

 

•The blanking plates. I'm not planning on using the tail lamps, but I'm not sure which blanking plates to use. Don't known if it makes any difference either. My coaches should represent the late 1980's, so which fits best, the ones with hook or without?

 

•Seeing as I use Fleischmann Profi couplers on my trains, I'm guessing I would have to swap the NEM pockets on these coaches too. But do these use the same installation as their older Mk2 models?

[Pete the Elaner]

Be careful what you wish for.

 

Do we really want these coaches to be sales lemons so they end up being heavily discounted?  Really?  All that will do will make Bachmann less inclined to invest in any new toolings aimed at the post steam market.  We already have Hornby fixated on producing high spec coaching for the kettleistas and duff, careless but cheap-ish models for the D+E market (I know I keep banging on about it but their Mk2e with a visible solebar is just pathetic, wouldn't be tolerated by the Finescale Taliban and put me off buying any of them straight away) so do we want the same from Bachmann who at least seem to understand there is a market for models dating from after 1968?

 

I agree with most of your statement. Manufacturers have upped the quality because of modellers wanting better & this has incurred costs, so obviously they will pass these on in retail prices.

Here is something for thought about accuracy though

 

A friend of mine who models 1960s is really impressed by new Mk3 HST buffet compared with their flawed steam era stock & commented that modern stock looks so much better than stem-era stock.

 

I know that the Mk3 is missing its roof vents, has been based on a 1-off so needs a red buffet stripe applied, is the less common ex-TRUB instead of the more common rebuilt variety with more seating which has a different window layout.

I also model 1930s LMS but I never saw this in service & most it was scrapped well before I was born. Are the latest Stanier coaches more correct or actually just as full of errors as the new Mk3 which my friend is impressed with? I don't know because I can't remember seeing them for real & older photos are harder to obtain than those snapped in the digital age.

[Bob Reid]

Heavy discounting is only wishful thinking on the part of those that aren't prepared to pay the cost, in the hope that one day they'll get a 2f for a bargain bucket price - they may well be disappointed. As wombatofludham hits the nail on the head, I won't repeat it but just to add if you're happy with decades old stock off the shelf that looks like a toy - well the 2f's not for you. If you are prepared to do the work to bring a Airfix 2D to anywhere near this level, then perhaps you need to actually put a cost on that and these perhaps won't seem so expensive. If you want accurate, correctly painted and well detailed models out of the box then this is the price we are going to have to pay.  I like anyone else wishes they were less expensive but then again Hornby gave us that and look what we got in return.  If ever there was a shot in the foot then Hornby missed a sitter.

[Legend]

Hornby did shoot themselves in the foot with the 2e , that could so easily have been a great model at reasonable price. That said I don’t find it that offputting . I wouldn’t notice it that much while running on layout. Much more of an issue would be livery mismatches like the Oxford Exccutive Mk3s As with many of the above I’m perfectly happy to stick with my Airfix/Dapol/Hornby mk2ds . To me it’s a mk2 aircon , im really not up on all the differences between d/e/f . But that’s me . It is a matter of choice . Some people want the best of everything, great detail, DCC and that all comes at a cost. The Bachmann mk2f seems to fulfill their requirements. If you want it and are prepared to pay for it ,why not. What I don’t like is the suggestion we should all be ashamed at not aspiring to run the best . There are people that are prepared to “‘settle” for something less expensive , that’s a very good representation. You do indeed have to watch what you wish for, £60+ coaches could well become the norm .

 

I wonder how many people who have watched the Great British Model Train tv program and are inspired have wondered into their local model railway shop(if they can find one) and come away astonished at the prices being charged, completely demoralised and realising it would cost a fortune to emulate the layouts being shown.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Legend

[Redford73]

Be careful what you wish for.

 

The problem really is our fault.  We have been banging on for years about wanting stock that matches Continental standards.  We have been demanding increased levels of detail, features like lighting, separately fitted details, detailed accurate interiors and so on.  Yet when Bachmann deliver a range that, in DCC fitted, allows you not only to control the interior lighting but gives you the option to have a tail lamp or not, has beautifully modelled interiors including correctly glazed interior bulkheads instead of the more usual solid moulding, but also do a non DCC version at a lower price to recognise that some would prefer not to pay for DCC kit they don't want, we get a chorus of complaints about the price and a death wish to see them bomb so they can be picked up in a distress sale.

 

If you are happy with the Hornby lackadaisical approach to anything post 1968 then that's fine, for once we have a sensible choice between a flawed, relatively cheap model and a higher spec model so if you can live with the underframe by all means go for the Hornby model, in effect you will be able to get three for the price of two Bachmann coaches.  Just don't wish the Bachmann model to be a sales lemon because if it does stiff, it'll call into question any further investment in D+E models.  Also, beware of asking for increasing details and features.  You won't get them at swapmeet prices.

 

Whilst I agree entirely that Hornby is always steam biased and Bachmann is much more prepared to invest in and release D&E rolling stock I am not one of the 'WE' you refer to in demanding Continental Standards and demanding increased levels of detail.  In fact I can't recall this being raised much by anyone who requested such stock be released rather the complaints were that there were gaps in the market re such rolling stock from the post 1968 eras.  

 

I was (and am) quite happy with the offerings which were prevalent in the 2006-2014 periods and spent a lot more on the hobby then.  I do not see that our refusing to pay the higher prices for these super-detailed Mk2Fs is going to alter the preferances of the two main manufacturers in terms of catering for the steam/D&E markets.   

 

I am afraid that there will be a minority of modellers prepared to pay such high prices for coaches (and wagons) however detailed they are and from whatever era they hail (though the proof will be in the sales).  I have in fact balked at paying for locos and rolling stock whose detailing pushed the price up and have also shunned DCC and DCC Sound because of the cost.  I am now more inclined to purchase the Lima re-issues and Railroad Range models and detail them myself.   However I may be totally wrong about this and in fact be the minority.

 

There ought to be more surveys conducted on this issue before manufacturers make decisions about introducing super-detailed models. Lets not forget that when the Hornby MK2Es and Bachmann MK2Fs were announced there was no indication from either manufacturer of the level of detail we were to expect. 

 

On a final point I run tail chaser layouts and how much of this extra detail can actually be seen on coaches and wagons running at even slow speeds around layouts?