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Bachmann announce Mk2f's


newbryford
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One thing about the release of the OO scale Mk2f is that it has given me the confidence to preorder a N scale FO equivalent, all be it at a price which is right on the upper limit I am prepared to pay for a coach.

 

It is the only aircon Mk 2 I will require however and it is going to be declassified on arrival too !

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Heavy discounting is only wishful thinking on the part of those that aren't prepared to pay the cost, in the hope that one day they'll get a 2f for a bargain bucket price - they may well be disappointed. As wombatofludham hits the nail on the head, I won't repeat it but just to add if you're happy with decades old stock off the shelf that looks like a toy - well the 2f's not for you. If you are prepared to do the work to bring a Airfix 2D to anywhere near this level, then perhaps you need to actually put a cost on that and these perhaps won't seem so expensive. If you want accurate, correctly painted and well detailed models out of the box then this is the price we are going to have to pay.  I like anyone else wishes they were less expensive but then again Hornby gave us that and look what we got in return.  If ever there was a shot in the foot then Hornby missed a sitter.

 

About £20 per Airfix 2D plus time

 

2F FO from Airfix requires

 

2D FO

Laserglaze

EE Frames

wire

etched handrails

2F toilet tank panels from Southern Pride

plastic card to reduce size of door windows and make large single fan aircon stuff

time

Then do you do the inside?

Saw off the extra boxes

Then repaint

lining

numbering (needs doing to any RTR stock unless VERY lucky)

 

However this is my better option as I do not fancy slicing up over £40 coaches to produce the rest, I also have around 20 Airfix 2Ds.

 

It is also better for me as one set is all 2D, the other 2CDEF, and producing a 2D TSO is a lot of work from a 2F TSO, 2E slightly easier.

 

I just wish a manufacturer would produce all the longer bodied mark 2 stock so they all match, as mix and matching different makes looks odd.

 

And if someone says they all look the same they are totally wrong. There is so much in common between CDEF that making the lot is not that mad.

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I was (and am) quite happy with the offerings which were prevalent in the 2006-2014 periods and spent a lot more on the hobby then.  I do not see that our refusing to pay the higher prices for these super-detailed Mk2Fs is going to alter the preferances of the two main manufacturers in terms of catering for the steam/D&E markets.   

 

I am afraid that there will be a minority of modellers prepared to pay such high prices for coaches (and wagons) however detailed they are and from whatever era they hail (though the proof will be in the sales).

 

I am sure than many who appreciate Bachmann's new 2Fs will buy these & sell their old stock.

These should them appear as second hand items, which is great for those happy with them & not prepared to pay the price Bachmann's new coaches are selling for.

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I just wish a manufacturer would produce all the longer bodied mark 2 stock so they all match, as mix and matching different makes looks odd.

 

And if someone says they all look the same they are totally wrong. There is so much in common between CDEF that making the lot is not that mad.

 

Longer-bodied Mk2s?  I thought all Mk2s are the same length.

 

Regarding the two sentences I've highlighted in red, these seem to directly contradict (although Mk2C is instantly identifiable by its saloon window design).

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For my Mk2E coaches, I have paid just over £100’for my rake of 6 in a mix of Intercity and virgin), on top of that I paid a further 2£ or so for a set of Hurst Models CDL lights, plus some paint for the interior.

 

On top of that is about an hour per coach carving off the solebar

A further upgrade to the roof detail would take them closer still, though that would carry more expense

Not bad at all for the price, and while not as detailed underneath as the Bachmann model, as a layout coach the level of detail is not bad at all.

 

 

For me it was simple, if the choice was between Bachmann at £46 or so and an Airfix 2D or Lima 2F it would be an easy choice to go with the Bachmann. The work needed to bring those up to scratch (windows, Glazing, tumblehome etc is just too much time and cost in parts.

 

However given a base model which is almost there in the form of the Hornby 2E id rather do some modelling

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I am sure than many who appreciate Bachmann's new 2Fs will buy these & sell their old stock.

These should them appear as second hand items, which is great for those happy with them & not prepared to pay the price Bachmann's new coaches are selling for.

It is indeed . I'll be looking for some Airfix converted DBSOs when the £80 Bachmann one appears . Its not just the price, but the fact that the Bachmann model is not compatible with electronic rail cleaners.

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Longer-bodied Mk2s?  I thought all Mk2s are the same length.

 

Regarding the two sentences I've highlighted in red, these seem to directly contradict (although Mk2C is instantly identifiable by its saloon window design).

 

 

Aren't 2C's are about 6 inch longer than the 2 - 2B on account of the extra gubbins for the air-con they never carried?. A whole 2mm in 4mm scale; some folks have actually lengthened their mk2's to replicate this....respect!!

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Longer-bodied Mk2s?  I thought all Mk2s are the same length.

 

Regarding the two sentences I've highlighted in red, these seem to directly contradict (although Mk2C is instantly identifiable by its saloon window design).

 

2 2A very similar

2B same length but wide doors

2CDEF have a slightly longer body (about 6" AFAIR)

 

2C and 2D main difference is aircon and windows

 

2D 2E early 2E externally line 2D, except TSO with staggered toilets

Late 2E like 2F except toilet roof panel

 

Most 2D E are twin fan

Most 2F single fan

All BSO BFK small single fan

 

So shells alone and only airocn

BSOs DE-E-F

FO DE-E-F

TSO D-E-E-F

FK D

BFK D

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I think the Mk2f is a bargain myself, look how much some of the new LSModels stock is in europe, and thats not DCC... £450 for 6 coaches, as its a sleeper.. no lights either.

 

Ive the whole blue grey set on order, and thinking about an intercity set too, and i’m on DC only.

 

A £35 coach is heading into history, the detail on this coach (and the extra detailing thats optional to fit) is fantastic.

 

You can take a £32 Hornby mk2e, buy a £20 Traintech lighting kit to go in it, and a £10 DCC chip, and spend the time making it fit, soldering and adding the pickups, your end result at £62 is still not going to be as good or as detailed as spending £5 more on this.

If your a DCC person, the benefits are exponentially more too.

 

If Affordability is an issue, its better to wait for the secondhand market to produce, praying for rain and wishing up a storm will only stop manufacturers making this detail later.. which is a loss to us all... and sends us back to the days of the Mk2d,e once again, but you wont get that price back.

Edited by adb968008
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I haven't seen one in the flesh and will venture out to have a look at one sometime soon. I was planning on buying online but the windows and lump in the roof shown on here has (I admit) put me off.

 

The prices don't put me off. The amount of work to bring older models up to scratch is high and more of a put off tbh as I have other things to do. So it'll be nice if these are good.

 

Cheers

Will

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There's slight confusion here.  The basic design of the Mark 2 Integral body based on the prototype from 1961! (around which all the variants were built) was only altered once.  As built the Mark 2 & 2A body length was the same at 65'-4 1/4" with the integral underframe of length of 63'-5".   The need for wider entrances to the vehicles saw the introduction of wraparound doors for Mark 2B onwards i.e. all the way up to and including the Mark 2F.  To accommodate the extra width and depth of the doors, the body was lengthened by 7 3/4" to 66'-0" and the underframe to 64'-0 3/4'.  Whilst the lengths overall altered, the bogie centres remained the same at 46'-6" throughout the Mark 2 build.  All of the extra length for example on the underframe was gained between the bolster and the headstock - the only major change was that the solebars were tapered inwards to accommodate the extra depth of the corner doors.  

 

Obviously as the Mark 2 build progressed alterations were made to the body structural members to suit the the different bodylights, internal layouts and equipment used and later from the 2C's onwards to accommodate Motor Alternators & Air Conditioning (though of course the 2C's received neither) but the shells were otherwise the same.

Edited by Bob Reid
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What is interesting that at the release of the Hornby 2E and Bachmann 2F the Airfix 2Ds have not increased on Ebay, nor dropped price, still there, still CAN be pricey (up to £30)

 

Interesting

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The Hornby MK1s are pretty much on the ball albeit some criticize the too dark BR blue and they sell for £34-£39 (and are not yet discounted).

 

The MK2Ds are now about the same (they were going for £14-£18 a couple of years ago) and the MK2Es are going for £14-£25.

 

I'm sorry but the mark up of £60-£80 for the MK2F is just too much (for me at least) when you consider it's mostly for the 'bells and whistles' which we are paying more for.  I wonder what Bachmann would have asked for the same coach without DCC, the lights, the lamps and buffer detailing? 

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Nothing to do with a good moan and I wish people wouldn't make the assumption that everyone who doesn't want, need or cannot afford the latest model is doing so.  And Yes I am aware there is a non DCC version. 

 

One of the problems I have is that MY financial situation doesn't give me enough disposable Income to spend that kind of money on a hobby that Iv'e doing for the best part of my life. I have a responsibilities which at the end of the day are far more important.  For example If i had a choice to buy one of these or get something for my Son, my Son wins hands down. Its about prioritising. This doesn't mean the next person is in the same boat and that it could simply be they have enough older stock to cover their needs and are happy to do the required modelling to bring them up to their OWN set of standards. 

 

I for one have enough Airfix / Mainline MK2d coaches purchased when you could get them for around £1.50 - £3.50 each. My Dapol ones were £6.00 each and  Lima Mk2 E/F  Coaches were between £1.00 - £6.00. to satisfy my needs. Will they ever be as well detailed as the Bachmann coaches NO. Will the paint job by up to their standards NO. BUT I will enjoy making them look as good as I possibly can and with a budget that works for me.. 

 

Some people need to try and understand other peoples situation and leave them to it instead of just criticising their decision as It's not always clear what this may be. What it is clear though is the frustration for a lot of us.

 

For those of you out there who can afford to buy, I hope you enjoy your purchases as they are indeed lovely looking models. I for one wont be buying unless I'm lucky enough to find one at a price that suits me. That's MY choice for the reasons said above. 

 

Regards Trailrage

Edited by TRAILRAGE
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As before my main issue is that most sets are mixed and I don't want to have to chop up £45 coaches.

 

My next required air con set would be a mix 2E TSO, 2D BFK, 2D FK and Mk 1 RU.

 

I have just enough left to produce the BFKs and 1 TSO

 

HOWEVER

 

If Bachmann produced accurate models of these I would be so tempted, Hornby needs too much work and so it comes back to converted Airfix

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Trailrage, It wasn't aimed at you so apologies if you read it that way.  Clearly they are expensive and apart from need, they may be beyond the reach of some folk depending on their circumstances however there's a common misconception amongst the "meetoo" moans about the high cost that cite only the bells and whistles version rather than the slightly more affordable non-DCC version.  

Edited by Bob Reid
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Unfortunately the DBSO only comes with the "whistles and bells" and as a result having ordered two DBSOs I end up paying for two DCC chips I don't want or need.  Going by the prices quoted above these unwanted chips have added around £24 to each of the two DBSOs (that's the price of a non DCC coach!).  Given Hornby and Lima managed to fit working lights to DC dummy HST power cars decades ago I am sure a DC version of the DBSO with working lights would have been possible.

 

Anyway still looking forward to the arrival of the DBSO.

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Unfortunately the DBSO only comes with the "whistles and bells" and as a result having ordered two DBSOs I end up paying for two DCC chips I don't want or need. Going by the prices quoted above these unwanted chips have added around £24 to each of the two DBSOs (that's the price of a non DCC coach!). Given Hornby and Lima managed to fit working lights to DC dummy HST power cars decades ago I am sure a DC version of the DBSO with working lights would have been possible.

 

Anyway still looking forward to the arrival of the DBSO.

But why would Bachmann want to design decades old technology in a brand new model??m If we stopped the manufacturers back then from making progressively better and more advanced models we would still be using very basic and, to me, very poor models/toys.

 

Our cars/vans/trucks we rely on in our daily lives would be cheaper without the advancements in technology and quality, but would we want to go back to wind down windows, manual chokes, rubbish heaters, small interiors, endless breakdowns etc etc.

 

If we all look to the past in this hobby, it won't have a future.

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Unfortunately the DBSO only comes with the "whistles and bells" and as a result having ordered two DBSOs I end up paying for two DCC chips I don't want or need.  Going by the prices quoted above these unwanted chips have added around £24 to each of the two DBSOs (that's the price of a non DCC coach!).  Given Hornby and Lima managed to fit working lights to DC dummy HST power cars decades ago I am sure a DC version of the DBSO with working lights would have been possible.

 

Anyway still looking forward to the arrival of the DBSO.

 

It might have been possible, but then that would likely involve different set ups and production processes, and thus need different parts and likely cost more as total price would need to cover the costs of the two different options being made.

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But why would Bachmann want to design decades old technology in a brand new model??m If we stopped the manufacturers back then from making progressively better and more advanced models we would still be using very basic and, to me, very poor models/toys.

 

Our cars/vans/trucks we rely on in our daily lives would be cheaper without the advancements in technology and quality, but would we want to go back to wind down windows, manual chokes, rubbish heaters, small interiors, endless breakdowns etc etc.

 

If we all look to the past in this hobby, it won't have a future.

 

My comment re the old technology to provide lighting was simply pointing out that it is possible to provide directional lighting without the need to a £24 chip, just in case people suggested that as the reason for the DBSOs only being available as DCC.

I have no problem with them being progressive etc that was not my point.  I am happy to see the improvements in models.  As I say I am really looking forward to the DBSOs.   My point is that unlike the rest of the range where they are offering DC and DCC versions they are only offering DCC DBSOs. 

Not only will it cost me an extra £48 for two of them, there are other potential issues, will it result in all the lights being on, headlights and tail, as well as interior when operating on DC?  How will it react to my high frequency track cleaner?  Will they include a blanking plates or will I need to spend more money on a couple of blanking plates!!

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Heavy discounting is only wishful thinking on the part of those that aren't prepared to pay the cost, in the hope that one day they'll get a 2f for a bargain bucket price - they may well be disappointed. As wombatofludham hits the nail on the head, I won't repeat it but just to add if you're happy with decades old stock off the shelf that looks like a toy - well the 2f's not for you. If you are prepared to do the work to bring a Airfix 2D to anywhere near this level, then perhaps you need to actually put a cost on that and these perhaps won't seem so expensive. If you want accurate, correctly painted and well detailed models out of the box then this is the price we are going to have to pay.  I like anyone else wishes they were less expensive but then again Hornby gave us that and look what we got in return.  If ever there was a shot in the foot then Hornby missed a sitter.

 

 Frankly I have to say that these coaches are still classed a toy, They will still end up going round and round in a circle. I nearly chocked when I read the price in the Mags.  I cant see these being a massive seller.

 

When the radio control Aircraft are becoming more affordable Model Railway items Escalate in price, Same with plastic kits. I think it is time to go back to RC modelling for now or continue to trawl and purchase 2nd hand items at the shows like I did at the weekend, Brand new 3 pack of 15T mineral Wagons €25.00. Current pricing in the shops €67.99 for the exact same pack.

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Trailrage, It wasn't aimed at you so apologies if you read it that way.  Clearly they are expensive and apart from need, they may be beyond the reach of some folk depending on their circumstances however there's a common misconception amongst the "meetoo" moans about the high cost that cite only the bells and whistles version rather than the slightly more affordable non-DCC version.  

 

Probably more aimed at me then. Like others I am aware there are both DC and DCC versions.  In my case I look for value for money and at £46 for the ordinary version it doesn't do it for me, after all I'm happy enough with the old Airfix Mk2ds .  But as Waverley points out the one coach that I would be interested in , the DBSO, comes only DCC fitted, and as I understand it its hard wired in, so even if I had a rush of blood to the head and forked out £80, I can't simply take the decoder out and run it on my system .

 

Anyway given the Hattons "Sale of the century" maybe a discounted one will turn up next year.

 

Waverley, I'm not sure you can take the chip out and replace with blanking plug. I thought the DCC functionality was hard wired in. Like you I run electronic track cleaners, which work very well for me , so I think its the case this coach is just not compatible to run on my layout.

Edited by Legend
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It might have been possible, but then that would likely involve different set ups and production processes, and thus need different parts and likely cost more as total price would need to cover the costs of the two different options being made.

 

Probably too small a volume to justify 2 variants.

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